Something isn't right thread #2

[FourAndFive]

Thanks so much for all your help and support. I can't believe the first thread is full - there isn’t a huge amount to update on right now, but I am looking forward to the future with my head held high, whatever the outcome. I'll keep posting.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5391850-something-isnt-right-emotional-affair-or-just-friends?page=1

@FourAndFive my heart breaks for you crying alone, I know how that feels. If I thought I was round the corner from you I’d be there with intent to put the kettle on/ wine and let you rant the place down and get some of this shit out of your system.
Crying really is good and usually releases lots of pent up pain, anger and frustration, you are right to call it “a good cry.”
My dear you absolutely do NOT have to bend. You, in fact, have to do sweet Fanny Anne. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. He should bend over backwards asking you what you need from him.
In fact, he should be in a permanently bent over position presenting his bare arse for you to kick until he completely gets this or gets dumped.
Sending you love and strength, you are doing exactly the right thing but nevertheless it is a very, very hard thing to do and that makes you a pretty amazing woman.

I think this opinion has merit.

It's too much of a coincidence that as soon as he was out of the marital home, madam has done a bunk. I would be highly highly suspicious that he told her he was available and she dumped him.

This would also explain the 'I will cut down contact' shizz. The contact has already been stopped by 90% from her end.

This is very true. No one wants to be permanently in enforcement mode. Also he should be happy to behave appropriately, if he needs policing all the time, then something’s wrong

There doesn't seem to be any real contrition from him for the pain he has caused and continues to inflict on you and the DC. It will be hard to genuinely move on without his acknowledgement of what a selfish man he has been.

You poor pet.
We are here for you.

Your thread reads like so many experiences of really lovely women that have had "great marriages" with "great men" until they suddenly didn't.

Until their husbands had their heads turned and thought their docile bending wives would bend yet again in the marriage, to accommodate THEIR needs.

No one is looking after you, certainly not him.

I understand our posts can be difficult to read, but we really are her collectively, to support you through this.

And you WILL get through this.
Don't doubt that.

OP I really think you need to press that ‘fuck it, I’m out’ button

You’ll never completely trust him again after this. I don’t think he stopped anything, I think it was her who did the stopping, and if she hadn’t done that who knows what might have happened

You deserve so much better

Your own two feet are great!

Wonderful as teen DC are (mostly!) they require a lot of emotional energy and practical parenting. You’re doing that while going through this. Your H isn’t living with them.

If the hobby and his self obsession problems remain, he will continue to prioritise that.

It could be good for you to go away somewhere nice alone or to visit friends or family (whoever will be lovely hosts) while he stays in your home and parents the DC.

I have nothing to add, as you've had so much good advice here. However I do want to send you the very best wishes, and say that you are an amazing and sttrong woman, and you will continue to be so, whatever the outcome. Sending a virtual hug.

Agree. His version reeks like month-old fish.

He just continues to put himself first, barely hiding his self-preservation behind tick-box platitudes. Expecting the little woman to forget all this silliness in time for Christmas. He doesn’t deserve you.

Nailed it...

I think in your situation (and I have been in similar scenarios) , I would be able to forgive my H falling in love or getting infatuated , and I would take him back if he admitted he had been weak and had developed an infatuation, and he acknowledged the truth - as well as talking openly about why he wanted to come back now , is it because his crush faded, he snapped back to reality or because she the OW backed off. As long as there is complete honest look at the situation by him, we have a chance to forgive and rebuild

But this gaslighting he is doing of saying he had no crush or infatuation, he didnt lose his head - it was all proper and reasonable, a hobby nothing more - this I could not tolerate or forgive OP, it would drive me mad.

I would make it a condition that you will take him back if he admits how crazy he was and how inappropriate it was. I would ask why he moved out, and if he says because you were suspicious over an innocent hobby, then challenge him why he would want to come back now then ? as that suspicion is your truth and always will be.

You are way too good for this man.

Absolutely...
Doesn't sound like he is anywhere near getting to the depths of his behaviour, and I don't think for one minute he actually recognises the damage he has done.

The covert narcissist in him doesn't believe he could ever be wrong.
He is controlled by his ego, entitlement and the long habit of OP bending to him has set him up to believe that he absolutely can gaslight her.

His children don't figure at all.
He is completely unconcerned by them.
They are collateral damage to his "hobby".
I am not a bit surprised they are relieved he's moved out.
Poor kids.
What a tosser he is.

Agree. A grandiose, entitled, arrogant and delusional buffoon in plain sight - no point trying to turn around this tanker of an inadvertently enabled ego. His self righteous and self serving personality is deeply entrenched.

Wait, the DC were relieved he moved out?

What do they think now?

If his parenting was / is lacking that should surely be reason enough not to continue with him.

There shouldn’t have to be conditions that dictate an apology or admitting. Hé should be transparent as part of the repair.

I'm sorry OP. I do wonder what would have happened if he said: "I'm separated" and she'd said "yay - let's go!". I don't think your husband has spared even a second's thought about that scenario, and he needs to in order to have any kind of contrition.

To me, she sounds like the kind of woman who loves to have a man twittering around her, gazing adoringly and telling her she's so special (I've met a few...). They also like the power of getting one over on the man's partner or spouse - she knew what she was doing and admitted as much when she asked if you thought she was a problem. However, she never had any intention of making good on anything and did a runner the minute your husband made clear he was free. This isn't putting all the blame on her - she encouraged him once he showed interest, but without him starting it and continuing it, there wouldn't have been any emotional affair at all. He needs to look at how it started and acknowledge his role. Until then, I'd cut contact with him and concentrate on yourself. You need a break from his drama (which is still ongoing whenever the two of you re-hash things).

@Baninarama - there is a lot of speculation / conjecture in the role of the young woman which seems to lessen the accountability of the OPs DH? Although I 100% agree that he communicated he was a free man and she fled.

Maybe it’s best to concentrate on the only facts that the OP has shared - namely that her DH has demonstrated in his words and his actions that he has intentionally fostered, obsessed and entrenched this emotional affair so much so that if his demands were not met he would take his own life - and in any case he seemed to be happy enough to abandon his family life and move out of their home to pursue his drive.

I can’t see any comments from the OP re the words or actions of this young woman that she was Svengali like enough to manipulate and sway the thoughts of a middle-aged man probably twice her age and old enough to be her father. However I do see the possibility the other way round - in that her parents thought it necessary to turn up to get the lay of the land re this amazing new person she had met (and he put his own wife in as a decoy). For parents of a young woman in her mid/late 20s to take this action suggests maybe there is a level of vulnerability about her - poss ND, socially naive etc?

Nailed it - especially the OP's habit of still bending to his 'ways'.

"The covert narcissist in him doesn't believe he could ever be wrong.
He is controlled by his ego, entitlement and the long habit of OP bending to him has set him up to believe that he absolutely can gaslight her."

And this is what lies behind the 'nice/good guy' image...

You were with a narcissist and only now you opened your eyes, he is trying DARVO. I know this can be confusing because he was nice etc. It it only worked when you were annulling yourself for him. Now that you opened your eyes he is acting like a child. I would like to know how are you? I hope you are doing well.

Will be rooting for you. You are indeed one superb person.

WHY AM I LIKE THIS?! I have so much to work out, and sort out. Why do I feel I have to give him grace, even at the expense of myself?
Because you are compassionate, and are thinking beyond you and him as the only variables. He was thinking of Him, Hobby, and Fwend, almost with the spinal cord instead of the brain, as priorities. Still, there is always a role for second thoughts even when that happens.

Fear, isn't it? Not only. Balancing anger, healthy evaluation abilities, and possible future paths, where you are going to have to salute several of them from the shore, when you decide which to commit to. None of them are a walk in the park, so the time and the observation of who you may live with is worth it.

...We've always just lived, compromised, worked together. I'm still trying to do that, I guess.
It worked and was fulfilling, up to now. People change, though. Things that happen to them change them - You as much as him. It is worth the practice to notice how things really are and that it is only sometimes a team effort.. And next steps - things will inevitably have to be pulled towards a centre on him for a while, which I think is why your hackles are raised about the sense of compromising in the current time. Like an addict or gambler, working on himself will not be an overnight transformation at all, so it will also have side effects of you working on yourself, and not just because he requires it or would prefer that.

You’ve not come back I notice. That’s not a criticism, or indeed a complaint re lack of information. It’s an observation, and I suppose a suggestion to ask yourself why not if you think it strengthens you.

Another thought I have had is that although he moved out you’ve not actually had any real time alone. You have been in counselling, no doubt talking over and above that and possible other stuff.

You have had no actual time to be physically or mentally without him. Time to get him out of your head, time to not be thinking about him, about the situation. Time to simply not think, and to try to recover. For him too, he is no doubt missing home but he has had no opportunity to really miss you or you and him. When you meet up he gets to talk about his favourite subject. Himself. It’s all ( I think ? ) predicated on reconciliation. I get no sense he has at any point been worried that won’t happen. Possibly it’s the same for you.

Things may have moved on, but if not really I think you need to consider the above. If you can’t then you need to be honest with yourself about why not.

As I said all the talking in the world won’t resolve it without the actions to back it up. He has been having an emotional affair ( knowingly or not) that he hid from you for a long time. He threatened suicide. He has grudgingly stopped contact ( you believe anyhow ). When what you need as a minimum is no contact whatsoever going forward, avoiding being where she is which means giving up the hobby. Focussing on why and how he got into the situation. Making things right with you however long it takes. If he won’t agree, and you’re continuing with counselling/discussion in the hope of an epiphany you’re on a hiding to nothing I fear.

However much you love him, however many good qualities he has, what is clear is within the relationship he does and gets what he wants most of the time. That’s broken now and he is the only one who can fix it. Your love alone won’t.

@Ormally & @MsPavlichenko - Thank you. I appreciate everything you've both said. @Madchest yes, yes to level of vulnerability. She must know something, because how can she not? But his availability? I just can't see that. She lives in her own world. I could be wrong though.

Huge thanks to everyone posting - all very valid thoughts. I really appreciate it.

I feel like the fog has cleared a bit after I last posted. I've boiled it down. I feel braver - harder even. I'm only showing softness to those who need it, my kids, my friends, my wonderful parents. I've learned a lot about myself, especially over these last few weeks. Time does keep rolling on, doesn't it.

Unfortunately, my DF has been quite poorly again, which has meant that we have both had to rally round to support him and my DM. We're on high alert for some test results, love him.

We've been talking more and it's been productive. We both feel that if we spend any more time apart, it will only be harder for us to come back together - if that's what we want. I am anxious, but also relieved now the decision has been made (date tbc). I am not bending, I am moving forward. It's time to see if we can save our marriage, or move on and separate officially. I am ready for it. Make or break. The DC's support it, but are as clear cut as ever. It is up to Mum - the OW is out, or you're not welcome back. Mum rules. My eldest is very close to DH, but the youngest has pulled away quite a lot - he'll have work to do there, and I'll do what I can to bridge the gap. If he's fucked it up, that's for him to live with.

@Thewookiemustgo we talked about my need to see him do something, rather than to just hear about it. So we agreed he would email her, and for me to see it and watch it go (on your advice). He reconfirmed he wasn't participating in the 'big event' and has asked her to send the money already paid to charity once it's been refunded (his idea, he doesn't want to extend contact and give further details to her). He told her that he is stepping away from the friendship completely, he overstepped his own boundaries, and by doing so he disrespected his family etc. There has been no reply so far. The hobby is relocated, she has been removed from everything I can see, he will not engage with her, not say hello, not pass the time of day. He is adamant that he will never have anything to do with her ever again. The line has been drawn and it's visible, and I feel better for it. Thank you for that.x

Love to all going through it.xx

I am sorry, but my knee jerk reaction is that if he has disrespected you that badly, he can do it again. I truly hope that everything works out well for you.

Forgive but never forget. I continued my £xx a month ’safety’ fund for nearly ten years when it happened again. A leopard never changes its spots, just more careful.