Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

I normally stick up for people when there is a male-female friendship as my best mate is a guy and there has never been (and never will) anything between us.

However nothing is secret at all. My partner knows (and likes) him and his partner knows (and hopefully likes) me. No jealously on either side. All transparent.

Him threatening suicide if you ask him to stop the friendship is very concerning. He would rather leave his children with no father than stop being friends with this woman? That’s a whole other level of infatuation.

Red flags are waving in all directions.

Really need to line up for divorce (proof of assets, start thinking about your finances, get a lawyer). Get a counsellor as a fall back option. Then put your foot down. He either gives up his girlfriend and goes to counselling with and without you, or it's separation leading to divorce. I don't say this lightly.

It sounds to me like he’s totally infatuated with this woman, but it’s unclear whether she shares his feelings. He needs some MH help if his reaction to you questioning a friendship is suicide, that’s totally unreasonable and hysterical.

I’m so sorry this is happening to you, what an awful shock, but you now need to prioritise yourself and your DC. I agree with others that this needs to be dealt with decisively and quickly, he needs to understand that he cannot behave like an obsessed adolescent, he’s a grown man with responsibilities.

I hope you have friends or family you can turn to who will support you, wishing you all the best.

I’ve been the “28F” (I was a little younger actually) in this situation in my more naive days. Looking back it was so inappropriate and couldn’t be construed as an innocent friendship. I’ve no idea why the man’s wife put up with it tbh - or perhaps she didn’t and he was behaving like your DH to her.

I never saw him again after he inevitably made a move and I said hell no - but I had genuinely not thought it was a possibility because he was married and so much older than me.

More recently I realised a man I’d become friendly with was heading in the same direction - what I saw as a friendly work relationship was heading towards an obsession on his part. Being quite a bit older and much wiser I could more easily see the level of inappropriateness and stepped back so I wasn’t encouraging it.

Although I think a point came where I didn’t need to be involved at all for the damage to be done by him all by himself - we interact unavoidably so he has plenty of time to fuel his obsession regardless of the fact that I no longer participate in “friendly”. I reckon your DH may be at or well past that point.

as for her family knowing all about him - I guarantee there is no way they think it is an innocent friendship.

Oh OP, this is dreadful for you. His behaviour is typical of a mid-life crisis and, as you are experiencing, it is shocking. It’s infatuation pure and simple. He won’t be thinking logically or rationally - he will be guided by his feelings (which are unreliable). Surround yourself with people you can vent to. See a counsellor yourself as someone to talk with - it will help you put your thoughts in order and provide you with some support.

There is very little you can practically do apart from make your boundaries clear. Protect your finances. Self-care is important - try to do nice things for yourself and put yourself first. But do get support. Have people you can phone and talk to. This issue lies with him and only him. It’s not your fault and you are not responsible. You will see another side of him and you will feel like you are in some kind of TV drama. It’s not you, it’s him. His drama. His circus. His ridiculousness.

Take good care of yourself.

He has a massive crush and has probably been fantasising about her then trying to help himself feel better by introducing you. The fact that he begged you to not stop him seeing her is a huge red flag and major ick. He wants your permission to lust after her. I would honestly take a huge step back and say you need some time to yourself to process this, ask him to move out for a bit whilst you get your thoughts together.

Hi OP.

Firstly I am sorry to read this. This is all him and may I just the point you have been with this man for 24 years, she is 28 - why is he being obsessed and creepy?? When you first got together she would have been 4? So there's also seemingly a bit of an age gap here too?

He is wanting the best of both and taking the piss out of you. Downplaying his involvement. It's -never- a guy is it? A "bromance". The little gifts and secrecy? Her family know all about him??

I am close to someone who has been through the exact situation, all downplaying of a hidden friendship, same age gap and just the bullshit that went with it. The wife put her foot down and also went though the young woman too, telling her she would know fine well how inappropriate this was to be constantly messaging a married man.

You have told him not to speak to her and he acts unhinged and has a breakdown? Nah. What you wanted should have been enough - while you got your thoughts on it. He can't give you that because he doesn't want to. It's all about him.

Kick him out! (Hugs).

This too!

If his friendship with her is more important to him than his relationship with you then it’s already at the emotion affair stage.

he needs to prove to you by his actions (not words) that you are more important.

He threatened to commit suicide if you didn't let him keep meeting a woman he's having an emotional affair with? That's fucked up, OP. And extremely manipulative from his side. You ought to call him out on that. "Give me what I wany or I'll kill myself" is abusive behaviour.

Is the hobby golf by any chance? Men get extremely, bizarrely obsessed with it and it makes them lose their minds and judgement. Meeting a young girl who enjoys it too might seem like the missing piece in life, for a man who is immature and doesn't understand his wife doesn't have to like everything he likes.

Sorry you're dealing with this OP. He sounds like a big immature baby. He is not being honest with himself or with you. If you want to fix things insist on couples' counselling perhaps - an objective third party might be able to make him see how unreasonable he is being.

But that suggests he knew you’d be upset 🤔 so he does it anyway. Idiot!

This might be helpful @FourAndFive

https://www.chumplady.com/category/cheater-tactics/

Also, you need to address his CS comment. Either he genuinely felt that way or he was trying to manipulate you. I’d be telling him he needs to go to counselling either way in order to stay with me.

He should have been there to support you during these times and not sneaking off to meet another woman.

@FourAndFive pretend to show a huge interest in DH hobby and start with casual chat then start to ask more probing questions. Your suspicions may be wrong but you need a lot more information and you are only going to get it through investigation. You mention your DH behaviour has changed and your gut instinct is telling you that maybe what started as a just friendship could be more. A woman's gut instinct can be right but don't get mad, prepare for possibility you could be right and decide what you want for yourself if you're suspicions are correct. If you aren't 100,% sure of this, you could do with finding out whether she knows that DH is married. If she doesn't... You have an advantage in all of this. If she does, your best bet is to get to know her a lot better and reveal DH's flaws. If you can do something to get DH to reveal his flaws, even better but take care not to get the wrong end of the stick in all this. Don't accuse DH of anything unless you have more evidence and the only way to get it is question, question, question as men don't like to lie they prefer to sit in hope that a woman won't ask a lot of questions that will force them to reveal what they are up to. Good luck. We are all rooting for you.

It isn’t really platonic: oh it might pass as platonic on the outside, but the husbands feelings about this woman are not “deep friendship”. The suicide threat demonstrates very clearly that emotionally he is dedicated to her.

The cloying over-affection absolutely repulses me even to read about, and needs to really stop right now.
He is a cheeky, selfish fucker, and the absolute kicker is that if/when she partners up and dumps him, you’re the one that will bear the brunt and be expected to make him feel better.

I think in your position, OP, I would take the view that he cannot continue to be married to you whilst in a pseudo relationship with her. Ideally you should have a counseling session together, but really He should leave, and you should think about whether to divorce over this.

Whenever I read these threads I’m always so interested to know what this hobby is? Is it a sport?

My DH is a very keen runner and cyclist and whilst I partake occasionally I’m less committed than him. There are a number of other women who he knows and are friends with as a result. But these hobbies spoken of here always sound so much more intriguing!

If the friend is interested in the husband, she’d love to meet the wife. Power, knowledge, curiosity or any number of dubious reasons.

Are you prepare to say what the hobby is? It might provide a clue as to what's going on here. I know with CrossFit gym boxes for example, they are very strong on encouraging extremely close bonds between the members and the trainers. It's all about the team spirit and mutual support.

If you don't buy into the whole CrossFit obsession you soon drop out, but those who remain all seem to become like a family, not only in the gym and competition settings but outside of them as well. They are practically cult like in their devotion to CrossFit and to one another.

From what you've said, from her point of view at least, it does seem just a platonic friendship built around their hobby. She maybe sees him as a close, big brother type figure. From his point of view, although he may not be actually having an affair with her, it sounds as though he wishes he was. He has the mother of all crushes, even if he tells himself he would never act on it. Well that's very easy to say all the while she isn't giving him any signals that it's even a possibility. And if it's gone on this long without becoming an affair then I don't think you have much to worry about from her, at least.

Caveat that to say that it's possible, when you met her, that she was just very good at disguising any signs of chemistry and intimacy between them, because she knew very well you'd be looking for it and she wanted to throw you off the scent. But if that's the case then I don't understand why they'd be facilitating a meeting between you and her at all. That just seems like asking for unnecessary trouble. If she wanted to invite him to her birthday party or something he'd easily be able to pass that off as just a hobby group get-together that wouldn't interest you.

Certainly by introducing her to you and telling you all about her, he's getting it all in the open and legitimising this friendship so he doesn't need to lie or cover his tracks in order to spend as much time with her as possible. He's sending the message 'why would I need to lie and creep around, when there is nothing sexual / intimate between us? But I'm afraid to say that he probably fantasises that there is.

I think all you can do is monitor the situation and trust your gut. If he refuses to seriously cool it with this constant contact, or to move to a different hobby group where she isn't there all the time, then you could always approach her directly.

Say: 'Look, please believe me when I say I am not a jealous and overly controlling nutjob, but my middle aged fool of a husband is utterly obsessed with you and I'm not having it. He says it's not an affair and perhaps it's not, but it's damaging our marriage all the same.

Whether you realise it or not, you are encouraging him in his delusions and I need it to stop. He seems incapable of stopping, so I am asking you to stop it. You may argue that you've done nothing wrong and that you've made no moves on him and don't intend to. In spite of that, he is emotionally over-invested and mooning around over you in a way that I just cannot tolerate. The only woman he should be this emotionally invested in is me. If this 'friendship' carries on at this level of intensity it will end our marriage. Are you prepared to back right off please, for the sake of our children?'

And see what her reaction is. Anyone decent, who is genuinely not interested in an affair will take this on board.

Ask him how he would feel if you had a man friend that you were completely infatuated with? Messaged constantly, bought him gifts, met up against DH will.
I have always found that if you feel something isn't right then it likely isn't.
you need to have the serious chat and consider counselling.

He threatens to CS if he can’t have his ‘friendship’ with this woman? How ridiculous. That would be the final straw for me, I would tell him to pack his bags and fuck off to her address if she is so special. He can’t think much of you or his kids. What a weak individual he is, pathetic.

I suspect the OP would prefer not to divulge the hobby, for privacy reasons?

This could be an emotional affair, he probably doesn’t even realise it, but the fact he’s kept her secret for a year is alarm bells. Same thing happened to me, oh yeah she was as nice as pie to me until she was begging my husband to leave me…

you need to have a frank conversation with your husband and explain how you feel.

You reiterate it’s inappropriate, you will leave if he doesn’t stop and do not back down even if he cries about how unfair it is he can’t have a GF alongside his wife. I would also reach out to her and say how uncomfortable you are and how it’s negatively impacting your marriage. Her response and subsequent actions to that should give you a clear insight into where her head is at.

Just reread this post.
seems to me, and this happens a lot, but people don’t like to talk about it, or you get accused of victim blaming.
I call it taking responsibility.
Remember , you are a strong woman and this is about taking your power back.
But sounds like you’ve been going through a lot of stuff and he’s felt neglected. He’s tried and failed to communicate this - men can be crap communicators

The ow has come along and ‘pandrered to his ego ‘
She also is in it for the ego boost - single, lonely - probably a bit insecure.
No healthy single woman texts a married man this much - at no level is it healthy
I’d be having a little chat with her , and mentioning ti her about his so called suicide threats. ‘
If that doesn’t give her a wake up call - well, he’s welcome to the selfish woman.
You need to start building up your marriage again.
get him involved with the ageing parents
Assuming the ageing parents are being reasonable - if not step back from them - stately home thread on here is great for advise and cockroache cafe.
But untimely , you need to lay down the law - cut contact completely from ow. He won’t like it , it’s not love/friendship , it’s a drug.
Ignore his tantrum , like you would a child. He’d be far worse off without you.
You’re strong and can do this.
He and ow are weak and full time, (not just the highlights/ exciting bits) would tire of each other in a week tops.