Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

He threatened to kill himself if you made him stop talking to her? And you backed down and what? Said ok? You'll carry on being his wife at home while he carries on an emotional affair? What kind of things was he saying about why he wanted to kill himself? Has he any self reflection and insight into his reaction? I'm struggling to see how anyone can be so distraught at the idea of stopping a friendship that they want to die, whilst also insisting it's perfectly innocent!

He threatened to kill himself if you made him stop talking to her? And you backed down and what? Said ok? You'll carry on being his wife at home while he carries on an emotional affair? What kind of things was he saying about why he wanted to kill himself? Has he any self reflection and insight into his reaction? I'm struggling to see how anyone can be so distraught at the idea of stopping a friendship that they want to die, whilst also insisting it's perfectly innocent!

As soon as I read ‘hidden’ I knew it was an EA. For many people, it’s a new concept, and they think that as long as nothing physical has happened, then it falls under the platonic category. The fact that he had a hissy fit when you asked him to cut contact proves he’s over involved. You need to have another talk with with him, and explain his crush is more than a friendship, and would he like it if you sneaked off for secret rendezvous with a bloke.

Did he mean 'ending it all' as in ending your marriage op?

Whatever happens now he has eroded trust by doing this in the first place. So it could be a long way back to what you had before.

If he is wanting sex more that's a pretty good sign he's emotionally involved.

He's cheating. If he's doing something with another woman that he would not do in front of you, that's cheating. He's a liar, a betrayer and a cheat his word cannot be trusted. Act accordingly, get a lawyer, get rid.

Manipulative and devious.

you must be reeling OP. As others have said, threatening to kill himself and hiding messages suggests this is much more than just some hobby pal.

He sounds manipulative with his covert messages and then his threats if he can’t have his own way. I absolutely wouldn't stand for any of this. He’s in a fantasy world. My husband comes first. I’ve had to change the parameters of some of my closer male relationships, not because my husband doesn’t trust me but because I don’t want to disrespect him by placing their needs above his. He’s my priority, second only to my children. You need to be your husband’s priority and if you’re not then I’m sorry but you need to prioritise yourself.

Sorry this is what you’re dealing with.x

That's the paradox of it though, such a longing for the status quo of keeping his new friend and being the good husband and father.

I think some men truly believe they are such good guys that they can't believe it themselves. That what they are actually asking their wives to do is watch and support them whilst they fall in love with another woman. So very cruel and heartless, what they are really fighting for is that time to continue to forge a relationship with ow, expecting loyal wives to wait and serve their needs arround the affair, it's abhorrent.

These types that never admit an affair are the worst in my opinion, they are also some of the most dangerous men, complete control freaks who can use violence when confronted.

Take care op, I hope you have good support arround you.

Oh no, men and women who cheat always know they are doing the wrong thing - they just don't care. Doing the wrong thing is ok for selfish, manipulative liars like the OPs husband is, he's just utterly self absorbed and doesn't actually care about her at all. But for selfish, lying manipulative deceivers it can be convenient for them to keep their wife around in case the affair doesn't work out.

You have invested 24 years.
If it is a purely cerebral or emotional connection then you could fight. I would do this and see how it goes.
Are you interested in the hobby?
Could you enjoy joining in?
There is a lot to loose but new expert friend might not be as invested as you think. If you get to know her you might be able to assess better.

I'm also so taken aback at him threatening to kill himself. Is he normally so fragile or volatile (or manipulative) OP?

As for the suicide threat… tell him just how abusive this is and that if he really is genuine, then you are prepared to call him out on it by calling the police and requesting a mental health assessment. He must know that this is utterly shit behaviour,

I’m sorry but threatening to kill himself because you’ve asked him to pull back on an inappropriate friendship that has rocked the foundations of your marriage is…..horrendously manipulative and also deeply hurtful because what hold does this woman have on him? What an awful thing to do to you.

And like others have said she probably feels he is this safe older chap and it may be totally one sided, but he’s treated you appallingly.

Right. Back when I was a young woman I had a boyfriend threaten suicide if I split up with him. I sat and thought for a while, I was really unsure what to do. Nowadays I'd ask someone, but this was pre internet and before any sort of mental health awareness and I just didn't know what to do. But the next day I called his mum and told her what he'd said. He phoned back later totally irate and I said well it seems to me if you were serious it would have been terrible for me not to do anything about it and calling your mum was all I could think to do. And if you were not serious, you should not have said it.

People who threaten suicide to emotionally blackmail others need intervention, one way or another, so yes she should take that threat seriously

My friend DH has recently threatened to commit suicide because she has asked for a divorce. In what was a not thought out reply I said at least it would save on solicitors fees. Not my best moment as a human. People that threaten rarely do this it’s the ones who do not tell anyone that tend to actually do it.

I am afraid your marriage is over, it’s a pathetic mid life crisis on his part.

Has he not massively given you the ick yet? His behaviour is pathetic. You are his wife. You should be his priority. And apparently you aren’t.

I’m sorry OP, it’s a horrible feeling I know but I’d have turfed him out. Threatening to CS if he can’t see her?! I wouldn’t let him take the mick out of you for a minute longer! There would be no counselling for me. Disloyalty is something I can’t look past. It does not matter if it’s one sided etc he has not put you first.

I’m so sorry OP - hope it works out for you.
I really would be as upset and as unhappy as you.
As others have suggested it’s ultimatum time - this is making you so upset he needs to make a choice.

He sounds very manipulative. And threatening suicide over having to cut off a friendship tells you it is more than a friendship. I'm sorry OP, but he is completely invested in this other woman and is gaslighting you and throwing everything into making himself the victim. You have the right to put up a firm boundary and tell him he can pick her or you but not both. Be prepared when he pushes back with exactly how you will proceed in leaving. He may need a wake up call or a divorce. You will find out though and not have to live so unsettled. You do deserve to be it first, don't forget that even if he has.

i would do the research regarding divorce - what money is there, where would you live, would you get a share of his pension etc - so if it comes to that you sound as though you mean it and he has to move out.

Op, he had a visceral reaction to the thought of ending their relationship. That’s pretty hard for him to justify if he has no feelings for her.

He shouldn’t have let it get to this stage out of respect for you and your marriage.

You’re now in a transitional stage where he is bringing her into your daily lives. It will not end here. Rather than accepting his feelings- and because he’s a knob - he’s wimping out and making you go through all of this turmoil. What an utterly pathetic man.

I’m so sorry op.

Deleting texts - why delete messages when you have nothing to hide.

@FourAndFive your gut is telling yiu something isnt right. Your head is telling you something isnt right. Your DH is overcompensating and deleting conversations.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

You know this.

I'm so sorry.

I’m so so sorry Op. it’s definitely an emotional affair. She’s his best friend, person he confides in, person who understands him etc etc. He throws a tantrum when you suggest he finishes it and guilts you into accepting her. It’s really so awful what he’s doing to you.
I personally would hate my husband in this situation and would not want to save marriage.
But if you do want this marriage can you ask to meet her privately and have a chat with her? See her motives and then fully lay it out that she is ruining your marriage and needs to end friendship. If she is only friends she will. If she isn’t willing to end it then you get closure there too as to me I would say the way he behaves it’s clear he is fully in love with her regardless of the gaslighting he’s doing to you.

I had this. It was so miserable. He put her first, doing to do the hobby with her on a bank holiday when I was crying and begging him not to go. After several unfaithful years of this I eventually left. The miserable years caused really damage to my children. He and she are now together. .