Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

@SaladAndChipsForTea yup, they don’t call it ‘the script’ for nothing . It’s like playing cheaters bingo. They all pull the mental health card too , I knew someone whose partner moved to his friend’s holiday home as he ‘needed space’ to sort his head out. She was very worried about him . He had moved another woman into this holiday home.

And they all genuinely think they are the victims! It's genuinely astonishing.

But it puts intonperseoective just how much they can't be reasoned with because they actually believe their own bullshit.

One mumsnet gem is that men rarely leave without someone lined up. And after reflecting on that, I realised I'd never known a man undertake a huge life upheaval of I stagnating divorce just because they were no longer happy. They wait for it to happen to them (notwithstanding the more unusual circumstances of a woman having significant mental health or alcohol/substance problems)

The fact that your husband doesn’t usually discuss ‘stuff’ with your father means that you father will be well aware that there’s a problem in your marriage. I think it would now be a good idea to confirm this with your parents and explain what is happening. Tell them that there’s an inappropriate close friendship going on which is becoming an obsession and you’re very likely to divorce over it.

You will get the support you need by discussing the situation with close friends and family. I remember feeling guilty when I told my parents about my divorce as my father was very unwell at the time. My parents both said they were glad to think about something else other than doctors and hospitals!

Poster got much advice on this same line. Hope her father especially now, ! knows her take on the story ...

Spot on!
and it makes me sick he’s manipulating her elderly, sick father.

Parents may be relieved daughter confides in them, they may suspect something, parents intuition, and may be worried without putting their finger on why. she just needs to reassure them not to worry or be angry because he’s not worth their stress, that she’ll be fine whatever happens , her parents will want the best for her , not some cockroach of a husband.

@Whattodo1610 The OP almost certainly has not said 'Don't be so bloody ridiculous.' She will have been too shocked.

It doesn't really matter what you say to a man who's in the OP's DH state of mind anyway because he'll be thinking with his dick.

I hope enjoys navigating a second divorce or the baby years when she wants kids and he doesn't (but may have them anyway to hold onto her). How pitiful.

Or she has them, in order to hold on to him?

Another mumsnet gem is "He wasn't sorry when you didn't know".

Who gives a shit if he does mental gymnastics to convince himself he is a nice guy. We all see him for what he is here it doesn't matter what his view is.

Say to your parents or any other sensible minded person that he wanted to go away for the weekend with his special friend and threatened suicide if he couldn't and they will not think he is a nice guy.

You don't have to justify leaving a relationship

OP doesn’t need to have said those exact words! She has told him explicitly how wrong this is, how she feels about it, how he must cut all contact with OW. He’s not listening at all, so play him at his own game - that’s one of the only solutions left really. But like I also said, I’d like to think this might shock him and work but I highly doubt it 🤷‍♀️

This man is too far gone. Wether he comes back or not, what's the point. Only the finance

Think you have done the right thing separating. He lied and pursued an emotional affair with the OW, you found out and asked him to cut contact with OW, he refused and threatened suicide. Awful.

I don’t think you should seek interaction with OW. Seems unlikely to help you. Whatever her thoughts/feelings/behaviours, they wouldn’t be a problem had your H behaved appropriately.

As MNetters often say, these intense, hidden ‘friendships’ are never with someone who isn’t conventionally attractive and the same age or older.

Sorry to read of your issues.

He is unreasonable and knws it - mentioning CS presumably is to make you back off.

My bro told his ex wife to quit her job (she was having an affair at work which she downplayed) she refused to quit the job which told him all he needed to know .

What hobby takes you round the world? Genuinely interested !

The fact that the overnight trip is still going ahead tells you everything you need to know about how your husband doesn’t respect you or put you first. You made it clear how uncomfortable you were with this supposed friendship. He should have stepped back straightaway but instead he blackmailed you with ‘suicidal feelings’ and tried to justify his actions by approaching your father behind your back. No. You’ve done the right thing to shut it down and not put up with it anymore.

I also agree with posters who are saying that men don’t agree to leave or take a break without someone else lined up. When I was in my mid-20s, my long term boyfriend started acting strangely. It was like a complete personality change over a fortnight. I suspected he’d met someone else at work as he had mentionitis about a young female colleague. Anyway, just before my birthday he told me he didn’t want to be with me anymore, as our issues were unfixable. Before this, we were happy and I thought we’d get engaged. Within a month he’d gone public with his new girlfriend. It wasn’t the work colleague but a married woman he’d met at his hobby. I hadn’t seen it coming and he rewrote the narrative to everyone, painting himself as a victim who broke up with me because I was ‘too busy with work’ with no time for him. It’s like a script they follow.

Wishing you the best of luck going forward. Stay strong.

Contacting the OW sounds a bit too much like Dolly Parton trying to reason with Jolene. It would feed both of their egos.

...If it is them doing it - the definition for their wife is a lot tighter...

If you wanted to contact the other woman it should just be "you've broken up our marriage, you are welcome to him".

OP tell your parents. I notice he went to your father not your mother, likely because he knew any woman would say it's inappropriate. As for your friend - I've always admired Lorena Bobbit but that would be going a bit too far.

@Jenkibuble What hobby takes you round the world? Genuinely interested !

Scuba diving, rock climbing

Lorena Bobbit is going too far.It woukd.be nice though if someone could disrupt the weekend away at the hotel for him.
Sympathies and I hope things get better for you soon.

So sorry @FourAndFive x

@anyolddinosaur

It's not a funny subject but you made me laugh with your Lorena Bobbit reference!
All those years ago and she is still famous!

Some kind of water sport? Boating ?

It would be over for me just because he hasn't cancelled the trip away knowing how am feeling about it,
that being sed I would still go on that trip just to see how they behave , body language and all that,
or will he flip if you say your now going on trip too, wonder how he would react knowing you want to go now, Op

I’ve not read everything but I think you’ve made yourself clear and have begged and threatened enough. If he doesn’t want to stop I think I would personally let him get on with it , throwing in a ‘this will all end in tears ‘ comment somewhere in the mix ( because it likely will, he seems alot older than her and to be infatuated) I’d steel myself to enjoy my life , in my case go out buy new clothes slap on lipstick, see friends and go to a hobby of my own choice etc. I wouldn’t be going with him to his hobby. It’s a risk but I’d rather show him what he had to loose than beg him anymore.