Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

A bit of discernment here: nobody forces a divorce on op, but encourages her to bring the info to the knowledge of others, because there was a danger of her being gaslit

He doesn’t want to be the bad guy to her but is happy to be that with you op

OP I am happy to hear you have a fierce friend in your corner. The more you tell other people, their response will show you how outrageous his behaviour is.This is the antidote to his stupid justifications and gas lighting.

Just sending some support OP. I had a friend who has something very similar happen, including suicide threats. She eventually divorced her husband and has now remarried a decent man and her and her late teen kids are thriving. He is not.

This describes my ex perfectly. I was able to tell the day he met Miss Fanny Pelmet. He changed his entire personality and was living in a parallel universe to the rest of the world he was so in love with her.

I had an elderly demented parent on the go and I was already a burnt out husk so I let it all happen and just watched from the side lines. He kept saying it was just a friendship too. Her DH said the same to me and that she had done this lots of times (I bet she has) but eventually even her DH called me and admitted that they were lovers and he had applied for a transfer and was out the door.

I bought ex out of the house and he moved in with her and that was when they both had a bite of a reality sandwich cos within a few months he had moved out. He asked if he could come back at one point but I just laughed in his face.

Once these numpty women have to live with these men, it all looks totally different so in your shoes @FourAndFive I would push on with your plans of separating because the sooner they get together (they will) and they both realise what the fuck they have done, the sooner you will be having a smile to yourself as he is alone and renting a grotty damp flat and even his kids cba with him. These men are led by a fantasy and their penis. Not necessarily in that order. I was stunned by the change in my ex. It was like he had been beamed up and a droid was in his skin. For me, it went on for so long (because I allowed it to. I had no fight left because he was leaving me when I needed him the most) that by the time he packed a vanful of his stuff, I was glad to see the back of him as I had gone through every possible emotion & the only one I felt by then was contempt.

OP, you are doing amazing. He is now losing his whole world and doubtful his DC will ever forgive him so he will lose them too. You will rise to the top. Let him lie with the dogs where he belongs. You are a rockstar and your DC sound awesome too.

You tell him because of the way you've conducted yourself, because you've let inappropriate thoughts and habits develop, because you don't care that continuing this way is damaging your marriage, because you told your wife that you'd rather CS than act respectfully towards your wife.

XP said how has it come to this? to me.

This.

@FourAndFive just wanted to send you a hug. You’ve had the rug pulled from beneath you and you're standing tall. You’re doing all the right things. Hopefully now away he’s got some time to reflect on what he’s about to lose.

My now ex husbands partner invited us to lunch at her new flat. I nine know it was because she was curious about me.

OP it's understandable that you feel blindsided but you really need to be badass and mean business. You need to give him an ultimatum; tell him 'if he goes on this trip, you will file for divorce, and that's final and you mean it. So he needs to choose: his wife and mother of his child - his family and family unit, or that other woman.' Put it to him like that. And make sure he knows 'you mean business and you will file for divorce immediately if he goes. Tell him he has to choose.'

Also, if you can get in contact with OW I'd message her and tell her "I am asking you, woman to woman; please stay away from my husband, your 'friendship' is causing problems in our marriage."

@Itwasallyellow2 you’re absolutely right. Midlife crisis nonsense usually evaporates when you take the reins yourself. It’s not up to him to tell you what to put up with, it’s up to you what you’re prepared to accept from him or not.
He’s never been forced to look at the reality of what he’s doing and is like a toddler stamping his foot because he can’t control everyone any more.
On Fantasy Island he thought he could have it all regardless, but on Reality Island there is now a woman who has found out the truth and has a mind of her own. He has to deal with boundaries, consequences, serious adult choices, personal accountability and responsibility.
OP tell him you’ll be ok whatever he decides but you won’t put up with his selfish drama and nonsense. He needs to wake up and see reality. He could lose all the truly important people in his life.
We’re not in Kansas any more, Dorothy….

Actually my old boss invited me to meet his wife and children before declaring love a few months later. I was absolutely horrified. I was young and naive and thought he was being supportive. May have been a smokescreen for the wife but it doesn't mean he's not interested.

Also, if you can get in contact with OW I'd message her and tell her "I am asking you, woman to woman; please stay away from my husband, your 'friendship' is causing problems in our marriage."

You’re getting hugely good advice on this thread @FourAndFive and I hope you’re holding up.

However, I would never in a million years approach the OW. It gives her power.

Her behaviour is nothing to do with you.

It’s your husband you need to deal with. The very best of good luck and may the MN vipers’ force be with you.

He lied through his teeth until he felt comfortable I was going to take each nugget of information well.

This is a perfect description of what they do. It's so insidious and manipulative. It has the horrible effect of making you unsure if you're being unreasonable, because each little nugget isn't that terrible individually, each little nugget wears you down ready for the next one, and by then he knows you've stuck by him through several nuggets, and the sunk cost fallacy is powerful, so why not stick by him now through this one?

Sending you strength OP. Tell him to fuck off with all his nuggets.

OP , I’m concerned he now gets to tell OW that you are “on a break”, and in his / their mind he is free to do what he wants and then go back to you once out of his system …
But I hope that instead you asking him to move out shocks him into realising what he can lose
I think He hoped he could continue exploring his relationship with OW while spinning you along , until he was certain enough about her to leave you. Even if he hadn’t admitted this to himself.

I am undecided
but I bet he’s running to her now with his sob story of his wife asking him to move out
I wonder if he’ll tell her “because you were jealous of their friendship “

Good for you for not putting up with it. Has he actually left now or has this given him a wake up call?

Thus positioning you as the "outsider" the "guest" to their nice little twosome. That is outrageous.

And it's also why you should not contact the OW at all, for any reason. Do not let her see anything about you or your feelings. She does nopt deserve that knowledge.

She knows that her "friend" is married with children. She has made her [im]moral choice.

This woman is clearly devious. There is no reason to put you in this position unless she wants to cause trouble. I was right. She’s a splitter. My guess is it isn’t about the actual man involved, but the thrill of breaking up a marriage.

Contacting the ow and asking her to stay away is NOT badass.

Jesus wept.

This is good advice. If the OP is anything like I was, she really doesn’t want to lose her marriage, doesn’t want to pull the plug herself, but really needs a conclusion one way or the other. So it gives a clear and impending deadline for HIM to make a choice.

I know other people may say the OP should do the choosing, but walking away from your marriage, no matter what’s gone on, is HARD.

But I also contacted the. OW - she just laughed at me

@JimmyGiraffeso it’s not good advice? The ow laughed at you and yet you’re saying it is good advice for the op to contact her h’s ow?

The ow is not the problem here. The Op’s pathetic teenage lovelorn h is.

He needs to be dumped whether temporarily or permanently.

This.

There is a huge degree of presumed naivety here, which may or may not be valid for this OW.

The fact that she’s asked ‘is it me’ for me is hugely revealing that she knows this is inappropriate in and of itself, romantic or not.

You absolutely do not need to address this with her, he needs to and if he doesn’t, he has done it to himself.