DP hates children

[conflicted84]

Repost, with full text this time.

I (male, 41) have been with my OH (female, 37) for over 7 years now.

Early on she made it very clear she didn't want children and that was OK with me as I felt I was too old to be a good father, had taken a long time to get established in my career, and did not have much of a paternal instinct, but was very happy to be an uncle to my nephews/nieces. Otherwise we were on the same wavelength and got on well, and still do for the most part.

My sister on the other hand has young children who are adored by all the family, and this has become a massive source of tension in our relationship, getting worse year by year, to the point I'm not sure where things go.

When OH and I first got together it was not long prior to the pandemic and sister only had 1 child. Fast forward a few years and sister now has 2 more. DP and I had the experience of living together under very intense pandemic conditions while things were still pretty new for us. That seemed to go OK. Where things have gone wrong is the post-pandemic years where I've been trying to get her to engage more with my family. I'm talking maybe 3-4 events a year at most, think Christmastime and significant birthdays where immediate family + partners might be invited. Other smaller or ad-hoc get-togethers I would happily go to on my own, but it's important to me that we turn up together to "significant" family events and my family would probably ask concerned questions about the state of my relationship if I always turned up without her, as you can probably imagine.

Even this limited level of family engagement has been a struggle to put it mildly. At first it was at a fairly normal level of "slight unease around in-laws" which I assumed might be alleviated by better familiarity, but over the last couple of years in particular things have steadily got more and more tense to the point where I feel like I'm torn between my partner and my family.

DP's point of view seems to have shifted from "don't like children" to "actively despise them". Any time there is any kind of family event where children might be present I have to fight with her to get her to attend, and if she does attend then she spends the whole time sulking and pretty much refusing to speak to anyone. She is barely civil to my sister and brother in law, giving monosyllabic answers at best when they try to engage her in conversation, and looks through the children as though they do not even exist.

If I go without her she still finds a way to make passive-aggressive remarks about my family before and/or after the event, such as implying that I should just mail birthday presents rather than delivering them to my nephews/nieces in person (even though we live relatively close by and she knows I like seeing them) or making scoffing noises/rolling her eyes when I say I need to leave at X time to be there for such and such an event.

Even if we meet my parents without my nieces/nephews present she seems to try to find a way to start an argument, because she seems to resent my parents having a close relationship with their grandchildren. She also insinuates frequently that my parents somehow value me less than their grandchildren or that they give my sister more support than me - even though I've tried to explain repeatedly that this isn't the case and that it's quite normal for grandparents to dote on their grandchildren anyway.

This also gets echoed in my relationships with friends, most of whom now have children. She's still not met quite a few of my oldest friends and has turned down opportunities to meet them - if they have children she seems to pre-emptively write them off with sarcastic comments about how they've given up perfectly good careers, etc.

OH had an abusive childhood and I think a lot of this stems from the fact that she never knew "normal" family dynamics and never knew her own aunts/uncles/grandparents. She also seems to think that her mother (who was in an abusive marriage) ruined her own life and career by having children in the first place, and projects that onto other people who have children - hence frequent remarks at home about women "throwing away their lives", children in general being entitled, colleagues with children "skiving" when they are on holiday, and so on and so forth.

I think there is a lot of unresolved trauma here - almost as though she views herself as needing to avenge her mother - and a lot of fear or uncertainty on her part as to how to engage with family dynamics where children are involved. That said, she refuses to seek therapy - her view seems to be either that she knows better, or that nothing could help anyway. I try to support her as much as I can, and on a day to day basis it doesn't really factor into our interactions with one another as we have busy lives and don't have daily interactions with family. But it is getting to the point now where it is poisoning relations between me and my family whenever there's any sort of family event. We have had numerous arguments over the last few years where it feels like she is growing increasingly resentful of me wanting to have a relationship with my own nephews and nieces.

I don't want to split up with her. In private she is funny, clever, and incredibly supportive of me. But when it comes to meeting my family (or my friends) they are faced wtih indifference at best or even hostility, and that's beginning to spill into our private lives.

I'm at the end of my tether. After 7 years it feels like things should get easier, not more difficult. What do I do?

Wow a lot of replies. I love all the armchair psychologists declaring me a psychopath, it only took a handful of posts to I get there too. Impressive work.

I haven't read all the replies. I don't really care if people think I'm a nice person or not. I'm not really bothered by the opinions of others, particularly those I feel have made poor choices, but I digress.

I will say for those who fear I'm on some kind of edge, I avoid children on the whole but espeically situations that could make me lose my temper. I had myself surgically sterilised at 24, the soonest I could find a doctor to do it, because I would be unfit to parent. Despite your opinions of me, I am at least self aware enough not to put myself or a child through that.

I hate that society expects women, all women without exception, to be natural nurturing characters who adore babies and family. I have had strangers leave their baby with at me an airport once, they didn't even ask just scurried off to the toilet with there other child. I have a very approachable face (unfortunately) and I don't like the shock I get when people think because of the way I look and my gender I owe them a certain personality.

I could never love a child, not a relatives not even my own. And I struggle to have any empathy for them. I'm not devoid of empathy, I just can't muster it for children. If I manage any it evaporates at the first inconvenience eg screaming, playing loudly, having filthy hands.

I don't have any friends with children either as fundamentally we would have so little in common it would be impossible to bridge. Somebody said they have a friend who has a cat even though they hate cats and are allergic. A child is very different because they dominate a person's life become all they talk about. A child changes the parents immensely. Moreso the women I know than the men, which is sad because I knew some glorious women who were reduced to little more than an exhausted nanny, unable to make conversation about anything outside of parenting. I'm sure somebody will say parenting is its own reward but I watched these women lose their hopes, dreams, ambitions, careers. This experience has only offered proof to me that the trade is a terrible one. Again, I have my own stupid things I waste my efforts/time/finances on, so I appreciate it's a matter of opinion at the end of the day.

It's fine to act all shocked and appalled by my post, but the only way to be heard is often to spell out uncomfortable truths. The fact is if I simply say to people "I don't like children" they often think I'm being silly, secretly envious, or as when I was younger saying it to be edgy. The fact is I actively dislike all children, but society finds it hard to accept this so it makes up it's own narrative and reason to explain it away insteading if just accepting an uncomfortable truth.

He’s tried that. The mere fact that his parents like their own grandchildren is apparently a big enough problem for her to want him to cut them off. She refuses to meet his friends who have children, even when the children won’t be present, because she despises all parents on principle.

I don’t think there is anything salvageable here.

Honestly could never be with somebody like this. She is emotionally abusive and highly manipulative, I wouldn’t waste anymore time on somebody like her. Tbh, I wouldn’t like anyone that actively hates children, I find it extremely concerning to hold so much hatred towards one of the most vulnerable groups of society.

Well, this thread makes me feel grateful that, whatever other challenges I might have going on, at least I don’t go through life feeling violently, hatefully repulsed by a large percentage of the population (and every living person for approx 10% of their lives)

Also feel fortunate that, despite their various flaws, the people I share my life with aren’t ruled by violently hateful revulsion either.

Off to hug my noisy slimy loved ones and despicably hairy pets.

If you were a family member I would be begging you to leave this horrible relationship....no ...not everyone wants children....but to be so hostile to your family...including your parents....just NO..☹️ and hopefully you read our messages and understand it will never change ....only you can bring that change to your life and future

A really frightening thread in parts - i genuinely didnt expect to read about people despising kids. And someone to opt to be sterilised at 24, you must really know oyourself.

OP unfortunately I think you’re stuck in a very difficult position here where I don’t think you will or should try to change your partner and attempting to find a compromise might very well just end up making the situation worse. My husband isn’t a social butterfly by any means, he can be civil and pleasant (even funny) on his terms, but other than that he’s a closed book and people need to back off and leave him alone when he’s not in the right mood. This has always been difficult for me to navigate around family and friends because they feel very strongly that I deserve better.
I have now accepted that this is him, this is all it will ever be and if I don’t want to leave him, I pretty much do leave him behind in situations where he won’t be comfortable. Various people have told me he should make more effort and a big part of me agrees but in another light he’s been open and clear about how he feels and so it’s my choice to either accept it or move on.
I would also have loved for us to be able to compromise (and I don’t think you are in the wrong AT ALL) but we weren’t able to.
So I guess my advice would be to talk to her about how this makes you very uncomfortable and ask whether there’s any middle ground you could meet at (sounds like you’ve already tried that as well to be honest), but beyond that I think you have to make a decision on whether you can tolerate her behaviour long term or not.
I wish we both didn’t have to deal with this to be honest - we do both deserve better. You are not asking for a lot, if it is just a few times a year.
Good luck.

I think she's just refusing to live up to yours, and your families expectations.

@Anotherparkingthread you still sound like you're saying it to be edgy.

No one's asking you to be natural, nurturing carer of all babies and children, but actively hating and being disgusted by them is not normal. Get some help.

She sounds rude and unpleasant. Perhaps her age is particularly poignant if people are asking her if she has or wants children and that might be uncomfortable.
But no excuse to be horrible to your sister or to stop you enjoying seeing your nieces and nephews.

OP, I can relate on various levels to this. I do not have a good relationship with DH's family and prefer not to go with him to visit them. I also have a major problem being around my BIL and SIL and my DH's niece or nephew (I do have a child of my own) for reasons that are different than yours but are there nonetheless. I have refused to attend meals with DH's parents if those children are going to be mentioned. My husband no longer talks about them around me and I don't ask. It's just better this way, sad as it is.

I think that your partner is acting out on some deep hurt and valid feelings. However, if she wants to stay in this relationship, she has to be willing to behave a little differently.

You can't make her like your niece or nephew or want to spend time with them, but she can't continue to complain about them. She has to look at it from the standpoint that this is your family, and she is in the wrong to limit your time with them even if she doesn't like them or want to be included.

Are you willing to ask your parents not to mention the kids if you and DP are out to dinner with them? Given that they are not YOUR children, I would think that your parents would be capable of not talking about their grandchildren for one night and focusing the conversation on topics everyone at the table can relate to. Look, my husband doesn't have a problem with his niece or nephew, but even he gets annoyed if his parents go on and on about them if they aren't present. Let the conversation focus on the people at the table.

As for your DP sulking and giving one word answers if she is around the kids, that's very immature and is only making things worse for herself.

Honestly, it's such a problem for her, that if you want to stay in this relationship, I would no longer ask her to attend any function where those children are involved, especially if she has some trauma. However, she has to be willing to let you go on your own without saying anything negative about that. She's being extremely unreasonable otherwise.

She can have her opinions, but her behaviour must change for the sake of the relationship.

Therapy, unlikely to work unless she accepts she has a problem. Otherwise split up- don’t lose your family over her.

@MyLittleNest

FFS, he cannot ask his parents to censor their conversation and not talk about something as completely mundane and normal and important to them as their grandchildren in case it offends your ridiculous girlfriend’s peculiar sensitivities!! Fuck that. She needs to just grit her teeth, smile and be polite like a normal, decent human being. End of.

You sound like any other narcissist to be honest. Lack of empathy isn’t a positive attribute.

Would it be ok to have a visceral reaction to black people? Obviously not - and even worse of someone sounded happy with themselves.

Then OP should quickly change the topic. I think it's rude and boring of the parents to be going on about the grandkids when they have a chance to connect with their other (childless) adult son and his girlfriend for a night! Also, it sounds the parents know it is a hot button, so why are they bringing it up?

Sure, those kids are a big part of their life, but they can't talk about anything else for a couple hours? You don't see me going on and on about my dog at a dinner with people who aren't interested in animals for example.

I think she sounds extremely miserable and actually emotionally abusive as well. It’s not ok for her to look for ways to start arguments, be rude and unkind for no reason and to scoff/ eye roll/ pass remark to make your seeing your family an unpleasant experience.

You really don’t need to put up with this, she is effectively isolating you from your friends and family with her behaviour and I think she sounds very manipulative. I would personally leave without hesitation, I couldn’t build a life with someone who has such little respect for me, my family and my wants.

You have the right to build relationships with your nieces and nephews and it sounds like she is really trying to make that difficult for you and it’s not ok.

I completely understand that not everybody wants children and that not everybody is particularly keen on children but she is not entitled to a childfree world. These children are your family members and are human beings who deserve the same respect as any adult in her life.

Think what you would advise one of your siblings to do if they were in the same situation, you must see how this isn’t ok.

She sounds awful. I can’t stand dogs but have a friend who is besotted with her dogs. When I go to her house I make a fuss of them as it means a lot to her. I do this for dogs!

Your partner should be more than willing to behave appropriately with your family, nieces and nephews and friends because shes meant to love you! And these people, old or young, are important to you.

The fact that she can’t be civil is so rude to you, your family and friends. I don’t know how you can tolerate her awful behaviour towards the people you love. Will she magically speak to your nieces and nephews when they reach an age that she deems it’s ok for her to acknowledge them? I suspect by that time it will be too late and they will want nothing to do with her.

i would find her behaviour completely unacceptable and couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who didn’t want anything to do with my family and friends. She needs to go!

@MyLittleNest

OP has never said that his parents talk excessively about their grandchildren. He has said though that she can’t bear any mention of them whatsoever. Fuck that shit, she sounds precious.

where does it say the parents can't talk about anything other than the grandkids. You are being ridiculous.

Have you changed your mind about not wanting children, OP?

My Dsis had similar thoughts about children as @Anotherparkingthread. She hated visiting us when I had my DD and would actively avoid it.

Her DH didn't want children when they met but changed his mind several years into marriage. Dsis gave in and had a child but hated every moment of her pregnancy and her DS's early years. She suffered badly with PND (she also has PMDD) but never harmed her DS. She actually shocked us all by being such a good mum after getting help with PND.

She only felt comfortable when he hit puberty but still admits she hated him and didn't want to be around him until he was older. He's 29 with his own DS now. He says he had no idea of Dsis's feelings and always felt loved and wanted but can see she's struggling with her DGS.

We're all different. Some of us love the baby/toddler stage, others don't. Some of us love children and yearn for them, others don't. We are fortunate that we live in an age, thanks to contraception, that if we don't want children, we don't have to have them. Though it's a bigger problem if you're in a relationship with a partner who changes his mind about not wanting them.

There's not so much help for women wanting them who struggle to get pregnant or stay pregnant. I had several miscarriages before I had my beautiful DD.

There's a lot of pressure on women who don't want children. Not anywhere near as much on men. Dsis says that apart from the coercion she felt from her DH, society demonised her. I also felt pressured and by not being able to have children until DD came along, especially by my MIL (who I'll never forgive).

My friend admitted to hating her child - really hating him - but never on the same level as my Dsis had to her own son.

Psychology is fascinating. Despite admitting loathing children, my Dsis was a loving, caring and very protective mother. Had she admitted this to anyone other than her family she would probably have had her DS removed.

A child is very different because they dominate a person's life become all they talk about. A child changes the parents immensely. Moreso the women I know than the men, which is sad because I knew some glorious women who were reduced to little more than an exhausted nanny, unable to make conversation about anything outside of parenting.

What absolute nonsense.

@Anotherparkingthread

yep, it’s bollocks. I don’t know any parents who only talk about their kids. When I meet with my mates we talk about all sorts of stuff

I just wanted to counter all the negativity you received for this, I think it’s really brave to admit here and is perfectly normal- I’m sure you are lovely.

I love children, dedicated my life to working with them and most of my life is spent in the company of under 16’s and I feel like there are a lot of parents out there feeling the same way you do. The way so many parents talk about and directly to their children (and others children) isn’t too different to your own mindset.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the biological urge, some people want to pop them out but then ignore every area of their child’s development and put zero effort in to their parenting. The things I’ve heard from parents over the years makes you look normal, you’ve basically done more good for children by not having any.

Honestly you should break up. No chance she's going to come around or want be involved with your family. If you stay with her you'll just end up either resenting her or estranged from your own family and missing out on your niece's and nephews. I feel really sorry for you

I don't really have friends, not bothered to be honest, so children aren't an issue.