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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DP hates children

395 replies

conflicted84 · 22/07/2025 23:45

Repost, with full text this time.

I (male, 41) have been with my OH (female, 37) for over 7 years now.

Early on she made it very clear she didn't want children and that was OK with me as I felt I was too old to be a good father, had taken a long time to get established in my career, and did not have much of a paternal instinct, but was very happy to be an uncle to my nephews/nieces. Otherwise we were on the same wavelength and got on well, and still do for the most part.

My sister on the other hand has young children who are adored by all the family, and this has become a massive source of tension in our relationship, getting worse year by year, to the point I'm not sure where things go.

When OH and I first got together it was not long prior to the pandemic and sister only had 1 child. Fast forward a few years and sister now has 2 more. DP and I had the experience of living together under very intense pandemic conditions while things were still pretty new for us. That seemed to go OK. Where things have gone wrong is the post-pandemic years where I've been trying to get her to engage more with my family. I'm talking maybe 3-4 events a year at most, think Christmastime and significant birthdays where immediate family + partners might be invited. Other smaller or ad-hoc get-togethers I would happily go to on my own, but it's important to me that we turn up together to "significant" family events and my family would probably ask concerned questions about the state of my relationship if I always turned up without her, as you can probably imagine.

Even this limited level of family engagement has been a struggle to put it mildly. At first it was at a fairly normal level of "slight unease around in-laws" which I assumed might be alleviated by better familiarity, but over the last couple of years in particular things have steadily got more and more tense to the point where I feel like I'm torn between my partner and my family.

DP's point of view seems to have shifted from "don't like children" to "actively despise them". Any time there is any kind of family event where children might be present I have to fight with her to get her to attend, and if she does attend then she spends the whole time sulking and pretty much refusing to speak to anyone. She is barely civil to my sister and brother in law, giving monosyllabic answers at best when they try to engage her in conversation, and looks through the children as though they do not even exist.

If I go without her she still finds a way to make passive-aggressive remarks about my family before and/or after the event, such as implying that I should just mail birthday presents rather than delivering them to my nephews/nieces in person (even though we live relatively close by and she knows I like seeing them) or making scoffing noises/rolling her eyes when I say I need to leave at X time to be there for such and such an event.

Even if we meet my parents without my nieces/nephews present she seems to try to find a way to start an argument, because she seems to resent my parents having a close relationship with their grandchildren. She also insinuates frequently that my parents somehow value me less than their grandchildren or that they give my sister more support than me - even though I've tried to explain repeatedly that this isn't the case and that it's quite normal for grandparents to dote on their grandchildren anyway.

This also gets echoed in my relationships with friends, most of whom now have children. She's still not met quite a few of my oldest friends and has turned down opportunities to meet them - if they have children she seems to pre-emptively write them off with sarcastic comments about how they've given up perfectly good careers, etc.

OH had an abusive childhood and I think a lot of this stems from the fact that she never knew "normal" family dynamics and never knew her own aunts/uncles/grandparents. She also seems to think that her mother (who was in an abusive marriage) ruined her own life and career by having children in the first place, and projects that onto other people who have children - hence frequent remarks at home about women "throwing away their lives", children in general being entitled, colleagues with children "skiving" when they are on holiday, and so on and so forth.

I think there is a lot of unresolved trauma here - almost as though she views herself as needing to avenge her mother - and a lot of fear or uncertainty on her part as to how to engage with family dynamics where children are involved. That said, she refuses to seek therapy - her view seems to be either that she knows better, or that nothing could help anyway. I try to support her as much as I can, and on a day to day basis it doesn't really factor into our interactions with one another as we have busy lives and don't have daily interactions with family. But it is getting to the point now where it is poisoning relations between me and my family whenever there's any sort of family event. We have had numerous arguments over the last few years where it feels like she is growing increasingly resentful of me wanting to have a relationship with my own nephews and nieces.

I don't want to split up with her. In private she is funny, clever, and incredibly supportive of me. But when it comes to meeting my family (or my friends) they are faced wtih indifference at best or even hostility, and that's beginning to spill into our private lives.

I'm at the end of my tether. After 7 years it feels like things should get easier, not more difficult. What do I do?

OP posts:
SpinachSpinachMoreSpinach · 28/07/2025 21:00

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 20:04

I think I know the writing is on the wall unless things change drastically (they won't). I'm here trying to persuade myself otherwise.

I think now the question is how I prepare myself. I'd rather rip the plaster off than wait for the inevitable, but it's a horrible prospect. I can see a therapist and work will pay for it, but it's still awful.

Keep these thoughts in your head!

in fact, type them as a note on your phone and make the note your phone’s wallpaper.

Quick question: on a scale of 1 to 10, ranging from 1= ‘not very kind’ to ‘downright nasty’, how would you rate her character?

zaxxon · 28/07/2025 21:16

Sounds as though she's doubling down - deliberately exaggerating her anti-child rhetoric, perhaps in an effort to drive you away. If you're the one to leave, then she has the moral high ground. And if what she cares about is money and status, she may be (subconsciously) angling to get the lion's share of both once you split, by making you be the bad guy.

MaggieBsBoat · 28/07/2025 21:19

Why are people still feeding the NPD/psycho troll. Just ignore her. She answered, which I think is relevant to the OP. Now let her go. She gets off on the attention. It’s how those conditions work.

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:31

Legally speaking she is entitled to 50% as we bought the property as joint tenants rather than tenants in common. We have been splitting mortgage payments in the ratio of our after tax earnings, and my parents gifted the deposit, so we could fight about all of that but I think she would drive a hard bargain (as would I in her position) and tbh if she's entitled to that then what leverage do I have (and how much is a quiet life worth)?

What worries me more is that we are what the papers would call HENRYS - high earners, not rich yet. We are both in the same sector. I'm more senior than her by quite a long way because, although we are close in age, I came into this straight after graduate study whereas for her it's a career change. So in terms of salary and pensions, I am in a better position. We aren't married but I think she may well try to use all of this as leverage over the house if we split.

OP posts:
conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:35

SpinachSpinachMoreSpinach · 28/07/2025 21:00

Keep these thoughts in your head!

in fact, type them as a note on your phone and make the note your phone’s wallpaper.

Quick question: on a scale of 1 to 10, ranging from 1= ‘not very kind’ to ‘downright nasty’, how would you rate her character?

Your 1-10 scale is misleading because on that scale when we're together she's a minus 5 to minus 10 depending on the day and time.

With her colleagues, friends, or other people she likes, a minus 8 or minus 9

With my parents, probably a plus 2 to plus 5

With my sister and her children, plus 7 to plus 10

OP posts:
zaxxon · 28/07/2025 21:39

Alternatively, it could be one of those weird psychological games people play. Deep down she fears she's not lovable - that no one could love her if they knew what she was really like. So she expresses these awful opinions as a kind of test. If you stick with her even after she's said all that, it proves that you really love her, and therefore she must not be so bad after all.

The problem with this kind of grasping for affirmation is that it can never be satisfied. There will always be a part of her that suspects you might leave, and keeps pushing you in the hope that you'll prove her worth by staying. Which is exhausting and unpleasant for you.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 28/07/2025 21:39

She sounds like she wants to be the only child in your life.

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:41

LaughingCat · 28/07/2025 20:15

If you’re looking for advice, this PP nails it, OP. (edit: I was talking about @HiRen’s original post).

I’ll put it into perspective using my own experience. My DH never wanted kids. When we got together, we had ‘the talk’ but I think, young as we were back then, we both heard what we wanted to hear. I said I didn’t want kids right now as I liked my life and freedom and he fervently agreed. I likely never finished off with what I assumed was the obvious end of ‘but when I’m older, of course I do!’ Classic miscommunication.

By the time I realised that he didn’t want kids full stop, I was horribly in love with him. We’d been together for years. I spent much of my early to mid thirties wrestling with this. Didn’t feel it was fair to do the ultimatum scenario so I sat down and worked out for myself what I wanted more: a family in the future or him. He won. I wanted him exactly as he was and I didn’t want him to have kids just to make me happy, only if he really wanted them himself. I stayed and quietly shelved my vision of family life. We got cats and were happy.

In my late thirties, a chance disparaging comment from him in reference to a kid having a tantrum on a shop floor in a TV show led to him finding out that I hadn’t been against having kids forever, just not in my mid-twenties. As we talked, he was distraught at the thought that, without talking to him about it, my decision could have gone the other way and I would have left him. I told him I was happy with the choice I’d made but he definitely wasn’t happy at the thought I’d given something like that up.

He started looking into it. Invested in his relationships with his goddaughter, niece and nephews. Talked to friends about what family life was like. And decided there was room to grow.

We’re now expecting our little one in a couple of months - he’s changed immeasurably in the last six or seven years since that convo. So have I. He’s majorly looking forward to it (even if we both still freak out here and there about having her!). I love him and was willing to fully commit to life without kids, without making him feel responsible for it. He loves me and was equally willing to commit to life with a kid, without making me feel responsible for his choice too. We both want the other to be happy and don’t want to be the person responsible for the other’s unhappiness. We do communicate better now 😆. He was massively against marriage too but, the second it looked like I might lose protection on my rights to a stake in our house when we last moved a few years back, he didn’t miss a beat in asking me to marry him. There was no way he was ever going to let me be that vulnerable when he could provide a safety net.

Your partner, despite you having told her how much her behaviour around your family upsets you, continues to be the source of your unhappiness The lack of empathy or willingness to even try and compromise - not about having kids but just about behaving with common decency around your family is…breathtaking. You are not responsible for caring for her mental health issues. She is. If there is an issue, then it is up to her to take steps to address it. If she refuses to acknowledge that, then you really have no choice but to leave.

Edited

Thank you. That's an incredibly clear-sighted way of looking at things. I appreciate it.

OP posts:
ScruffyTrouserMindFlip · 28/07/2025 21:44

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:31

Legally speaking she is entitled to 50% as we bought the property as joint tenants rather than tenants in common. We have been splitting mortgage payments in the ratio of our after tax earnings, and my parents gifted the deposit, so we could fight about all of that but I think she would drive a hard bargain (as would I in her position) and tbh if she's entitled to that then what leverage do I have (and how much is a quiet life worth)?

What worries me more is that we are what the papers would call HENRYS - high earners, not rich yet. We are both in the same sector. I'm more senior than her by quite a long way because, although we are close in age, I came into this straight after graduate study whereas for her it's a career change. So in terms of salary and pensions, I am in a better position. We aren't married but I think she may well try to use all of this as leverage over the house if we split.

Sorry to pick at this - She won't be entitled to more than 50%. I'm unsure what your salary / pension / position at work has to do with it? Do you mean that she'll try and guilt you into giving her a bigger share of the house sale? Or that she'll try and blackmail you? Or something else again?

Edited to say, it sounds almost you're afraid of her.

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:47

ScruffyTrouserMindFlip · 28/07/2025 21:44

Sorry to pick at this - She won't be entitled to more than 50%. I'm unsure what your salary / pension / position at work has to do with it? Do you mean that she'll try and guilt you into giving her a bigger share of the house sale? Or that she'll try and blackmail you? Or something else again?

Edited to say, it sounds almost you're afraid of her.

Edited

So if we were married I believe she'd have a claim on part of my pension at least?

We're not married but I am not sure how much of a claim on everything else she might have.

OP posts:
SpinachSpinachMoreSpinach · 28/07/2025 21:48

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:35

Your 1-10 scale is misleading because on that scale when we're together she's a minus 5 to minus 10 depending on the day and time.

With her colleagues, friends, or other people she likes, a minus 8 or minus 9

With my parents, probably a plus 2 to plus 5

With my sister and her children, plus 7 to plus 10

Well, this tells you quite a lot - not just about her but also how you feel about her.

goody2shooz · 28/07/2025 21:52

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 28/07/2025 20:10

I think you need a solicitor first rather than a therapist. As you say you own a heavily mortgaged house together.

@conflicted84 THIS!!

ScruffyTrouserMindFlip · 28/07/2025 21:52

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:47

So if we were married I believe she'd have a claim on part of my pension at least?

We're not married but I am not sure how much of a claim on everything else she might have.

I see what you mean. I'm not an expert, but don't see why if you are not married and don't have children together, she would be entitled to anything (other than the house for which she is on the deeds). People are forever getting scolded on MN for getting tied to a man (usually), then not getting married but giving up a career, because "they won't be entitled to anything". Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will confirm though?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 28/07/2025 21:54

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 21:47

So if we were married I believe she'd have a claim on part of my pension at least?

We're not married but I am not sure how much of a claim on everything else she might have.

If you didn't ringfence your deposit then she's probably entitled to half the house. You can sever a joint tenancy and convert it into a tenancy in common at any time though.

She won't be entitled to anything else such as your pension if you're not married.

SpinachSpinachMoreSpinach · 28/07/2025 21:56

Just put the house on the market. She is not entitled to anything other than 50% of the equity that is left after selling and conveyancing cost. Plus whatever appliances and furniture each of you purchased.

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 28/07/2025 22:41

You are not married, that is why so many threads on Mumsnet advise the woman to be careful as she has no rights, no rights at all.

So it would be a 50/50 split of the equity, if there is any ?! after the deposit has been taken into consideration - and a decent solicitor will ensure you keep the deposit initially paid as I am sure there will be a paper trial for that via your parents.

Lighteningstrikes · 28/07/2025 23:00

Her extreme personality issues will very likely get worse as she gets older.

My advice would be to find someone who is intelligent and kind, who genuinely loves and cares about your happiness and wellbeing.

You sound like you’ve got a lot to offer in a relationship. Good luck.

Dery · 28/07/2025 23:16

If you’re in England or Wales, then she’s not entitled to anything beyond her share of equity in the house because you’re not married. And frankly, why should she be? It would be different if you’d had children and her career and earning power had taken a hit as a result but obviously that’s not the case. She’s an adult; why should you pay her any kind of maintenance?

What support do you have in real life, OP? It sounds like it would be helpful for you to have some while you process this and move to next steps.

flapjackfairy · 29/07/2025 05:19

another massive red flag...she will probably try to ruin me if we split up!!
Can't you see she plays nice when you are a good boy and toe the line. You want to ignore all evidence to the contrary because you can't comprehend that she is not what she seems.
She is a manipulator and because you sound like the kind of person who only wants to see the best in someone you can't accept it. It is hard and messes with your head but you need to look at the cold , hard facts.
She tries to isolate you from family and friends and is rude to them when they are important to you, she talks about people ( especially children) with contempt and will try to hurt you.if you split. She is only our for herself.
She won't change. Cut your losses.

Jerrypicker · 29/07/2025 07:45

flapjackfairy · 29/07/2025 05:19

another massive red flag...she will probably try to ruin me if we split up!!
Can't you see she plays nice when you are a good boy and toe the line. You want to ignore all evidence to the contrary because you can't comprehend that she is not what she seems.
She is a manipulator and because you sound like the kind of person who only wants to see the best in someone you can't accept it. It is hard and messes with your head but you need to look at the cold , hard facts.
She tries to isolate you from family and friends and is rude to them when they are important to you, she talks about people ( especially children) with contempt and will try to hurt you.if you split. She is only our for herself.
She won't change. Cut your losses.

I also noticed this. She sounds dangerous and vindictive. After splitting up she would only be entitled to the money she paid for the house and not a penny more. Why would she be entitled for anything else? If I was OP I would put a massive distance between me and this woman, and then she could find herself another hater with whom they could hate and be nasty together. Poor OP, he doesn’t sound like a fighter and will probably buckle under pressure 🙁

Agapornis · 29/07/2025 11:47

Rating her -10 to -5 when she's with you is bad. You sound so worried about your safety. Has she ever been violent - thrown things, made threats, tracking you, stalker like behaviour?

Please get decent legal advice to reassure you. Did you sign a declaration of trust with shares % to reflect the deposit? Log in on the mortgage portal. How much have you paid off? As others said, the most she'll get is 50% of the equity, which may be more than she contributed. Say you got a £1 million mortgage over 25 years, I think that means you've paid off £200k (ex interest) over the last five years, and she might entitled to £100k. As a high earner I presume you soon more than that, or soon will. Less than a year of working to get this terrible woman out of your life!

You may change it to tenants in common (it's free and she doesn't need to agree) so it's easier to sell without her permission.

Agapornis · 29/07/2025 11:56

Agapornis · 29/07/2025 11:47

Rating her -10 to -5 when she's with you is bad. You sound so worried about your safety. Has she ever been violent - thrown things, made threats, tracking you, stalker like behaviour?

Please get decent legal advice to reassure you. Did you sign a declaration of trust with shares % to reflect the deposit? Log in on the mortgage portal. How much have you paid off? As others said, the most she'll get is 50% of the equity, which may be more than she contributed. Say you got a £1 million mortgage over 25 years, I think that means you've paid off £200k (ex interest) over the last five years, and she might entitled to £100k. As a high earner I presume you soon more than that, or soon will. Less than a year of working to get this terrible woman out of your life!

You may change it to tenants in common (it's free and she doesn't need to agree) so it's easier to sell without her permission.

Sorry, can't edit but clearly I misunderstood the scale bit where minus is a positive! It's still very sad that she treats you worse than your friends.

OlderGlaswegianLivingInDevon · 29/07/2025 13:25

' We have been splitting mortgage payments in the ratio of our after tax earnings, '

so she's not paying 50% of the mortgage ?

Dunnowotot · 29/07/2025 15:49

conflicted84 · 28/07/2025 19:08

Because we started building a life together. We own a home together (with a bloody big mortgage) and she will probably try to ruin me if we split. Because I have to believe that she's better than this.

I know, written down, it all sounds foolish and she won't change, and I'm in for a lonely life if I stay. But I'm terrified of the fallout and of being single again. Those of you who split up after a long term relationship, how did you manage it? Was there a specific incident or was it a steady drip feed of "I love you but I can't tolerate this specific thing any more"? And how did it go from there?

How do you leave a long term relationship? It's not easy but people do it. I left a 20 year relationship. Married, with 2 kids, 3 pets, 2 houses, 2 cars, joint friends.. It's so hard, but once you see the toxic manipulation you're subjected to, you cant unsee it. And the dysfunction becomes unbearable and heavy.

Im the same age as you OP. Being single is better than to be with someone who only likes the parts of you that are useful to them and who hate or didmiss the rest. There might be someone out there who would love all of you, and you are blocking them by being with this person.

conflicted84 · 04/08/2025 17:51

OK, so a quick update -

  • I went for a drink with an old university friend the other evening. He now has 4 children and his wife gave up work as a doctor (her choice) to help look after them. They can afford this as he earns £££££ in a London law firm, and they have a very close and loving relationship. DP's reaction was to ask, disdainfully, "oh is he the one that keeps spawning?" + to get huffy about his wife (who she's never met) for letting the sisterhood down, or wasting her education, or something like that. This is on top of her seeming generally resentful that I've managed to maintain some friendships for 20+ years while making no effort to establish her own
  • repainting the spare room at home that I use as my WFH office. She came in and saw my colour testers and referred to one of the options with absolute contempt as "looking like an 'oh, let's decorate the nursery, it's going to be a boy' blue" (complete with sing-songy mock voice). Frankly, I'm tempted to paint it that colour now just to irritate her. This comes off the back of years of passive-aggressive comments about our house. We chose it and bought it together a couple of years ago and, looking back, her mood flipped pretty much on the day that we got the keys. Admittedly we had to compromise on location and it needs more work than we realised, and it's been slow going as we've both been very busy and finances have needed careful planning, but barely a week has gone by without her making some sort of sarcastic remark about the house or the neighbourhood
  • a memory that came back from a while ago: there was a significant parental birthday & we had a big meal to celebrate that with various aunts, uncles, cousins etc in attendance. A lot of those in their 20s-40s have their own children (aged anywhere from 2-10). DP - who was meeting a lot of these people for the first time - generally seemed to have a good time but made a number of extremely loud remarks throughout the evening about how "it's good that there aren't TOO MANY CHILDREN AT MY TABLE" and, later, at post-dinner drinks when the children had all left, how she "would have preferred the evening to be ADULTS-ONLY". She also spent large parts of the evening making critical marks to me about various people's dress sense and making negative/envious remarks about the fact an elderly relative was still in touch with his school friends. Frankly, this was so embarrassing that I'd suppressed the memory - I didn't want to make a scene in public and by the time we got home it was late and we'd both had a couple of glasses of wine, but this really isn't on, is it?
  • Out for dinner with some of her colleagues a few weeks ago and I was invited. She made a few remarks about how "the only reason I'm still living in [city X] is because it's where I was offered a job" and how "I hate living in [city X] and would rather live in the country" - all while I was sitting next to her. She moved to our current city to be with me, and never previously expressed any preference for living in the country (and for various reasons it would be wholly impractical for both of us) - though she's been making passive-aggressively negative remarks about the city for a few years now. Again, this was while we were out in public so I didn't want to create a scene.

None of this is normal or healthy, is it?

OP posts:
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