Therapist feedback and want your opinion on her feedback

[togo1004]

my last thread got deleted, but some of the folks here know that I’m currently in therapy for having a rocky relationship with my fiancé.

i recorded a conversation that I had with my fiancé which turned into an argument and had it sent to my therapist and this was her feedback.

to preface this, the fight started when he was taking a shower and I heard him talking to himself as he normally does. I couldn’t hear the words but it sounded pretty negative. So I walked in and said “what are you on about?” He replied “I’m just practicing my speech. I’ll be doing a small podcast and debating on topics from money to relationships and I was just being a devils advocate for myself so that I can cover if there are any holes in my argument”

then I said “you sound negative” then he replied “I’m not being negative, debates can become passionate but nobody is insulting each other. Then I replied “but you sound negative”. Then he said “it’s not negative why are you keep sayin it’s negative when it’s not negative”. I told him that the way he was talking in the shower made me feel pressured. He then said “why would you feel pressured when I’m not talking about you? I’m just practicing my talking skills”. Then I replied “you sound negative and it’s giving me pressure and..” that’s when he cut me off and said “why do you always have a problem with me? Every few days you have some sort of an issue with me when I’m just minding my own business, I cannot understand at all, is there a problem?” I started crying and started to say “I just wanted to talk about how you made me feel when you do these things and..”. Then he cut me off again by saying “I don’t get it, I’m literally just talking to myself, I’m whispering which means you had to try to listen so hard to listen. If it bothers you so much, why are you listening?” That’s when I broke down and left the house for a walk.

my therapist said we are both wrong here. She said that “I need to learn to let go of these things especially when he mentions that it has nothing to do with me”. And she said he’s also wrong for “not validating my feelings and refusing to understand how it makes me feel when he talks to himself with such a tone and cuts me off”

We didn’t go into further detail than this we will go over Thursday.

what are your thoughts on this MN?

A good therapist should not be making value judgements on anything, Their role is surely to guide you to explore the issues that are troubling or concerning you. They should ask open ended questions and have very clear and established boundaries .

Poor bloke, can't have a shower in peace IN HIS OWN HOME.

WTF have I been reading? [OP's posts only]
Why are you even together for so many reasons? Sounds like the relationship is analysed down to the last detail and the therapist in the mix?
This relationship sounds like hard work, ditch him, ditch the therapist and live a simpler life.
Listening at bathroom doors? That's almost pervy in some respects. 🙄

OP, kindly, it’s very obvious from the behaviour you describe on this thread. No one wants to be around someone this unstable and given to delegating responsibility tor her own emotional dysregulation onto the people around her. Sort your own stuff out before trying to firm relationships.

It’s really fucking not normal

Have you ever heard the phrase 'feelings are not facts'?

Your feelings are 'real' and feel powerful TO YOU because you experience them - but your feelings are NOT necessarily based on the reality of what is happening, and as such they don't ALWAYS need to be validated.

i.e. you're having massive emotions spying on your fiancé in the shower, but those emotions are based on a completely imaginary and fake scenario that he might be talking about you, when he's not - so it's not on him to make space for and accommodate your emotions based on a totally made-up situation.

Yes, a good partner will in general try and listen and support - but when these feelings are happening way too often and way too strongly, you're expecting too much. You need to personally and privately work through these intense feelings. It's not on your fiancé to make space for these emotions that are based on imaginary situations.

It’s not your partner’s role to reassure you every time you feel anxious about something he is doing, when he’s doing nothing wrong. That’s a huge burden you’re putting on him and eventually he will burn out. You need to get to the heart of why hearing a negative tone makes you so anxious and so certain it’s directed at you (childhood experience?) and work with a good therapist to learn how to manage these feelings.

I think you've jumped the shark here you'd have to be a full on narcissistic psychopath to focus on the fact that you were hurt assaulting someone.

You are recording your fiance, because your stressed because you are eavesdropping on him, debating with himself and you are projecting his debating tone onto you. Even though he has told you many times this is his private space, you won't respect that, but instead force yourself in there and make it about you. Then you relay all of the recorded discussion back to your therapist.

Then you relay the therapist's feedback to Mumsnet, and want to analyse it, with a wider group.

This appears to be extremely self absorbed.

Seriously leave the man be,let him do whatever harmless hobby he does in his personal time.

Tuesday and Thursday are devoted to splitting hairs about nonsense, why not have fun instead, do something lighthearted. Excessive rumination is not a good habit.

Look into CBT.

It was his idea. Because I told him that he doesn’t hear me out so we set a dedicated day where we can both express our feelings and thank each other.

i have a hunch he won’t have anything to say and it’ll be just me telling him things.

but i also want him to share his feelings with me.

This sounds like something you’d see as a joke on social media. I’m assuming the boyfriend is mega rich and the OP is the type of person who requires validation nonstop because she’s a narcissist and if she doesn’t get validation - on her terms - she will demand it. Bullying, aggressive to him when he is unwell, demanding he “protect” her, expecting him to fawn over her.
I know these traits VERY well.
There is absolutely no point trying to get her to understand any of this because she is incapable of it.
She won’t have a BACP accredited therapist because she’s not living in the UK and most likely is seeking validation from someone online claiming to be a therapist who advises recording conversations (Johnny Depp/Amber Heard anyone?).
The nan is foolish for entertaining her but I expect it’s a big of a trophy that you feel you have to put up with so you do.
I wouldn’t put up with OP’s behaviour if I could just walk away.. which he can

I think it’s very clear why you have no friends.

Have you read up on narcissism?

You are recording arguments you have with your fiancé to play back to your therapist and then you come on MN to divulge what your therapist said and you’re asking for feedback on what therapist said? You sound completely nuts!

You're abusive, and you're using the joint therapy as a means of perpetrating the abuse. There's a reason that couples counselling is not appropriate when the relationship is abusive, and this is a good example of why that is.

I hope that this man can extricate himself from your abuse.

Why on earth do you think he would share his feeling with you when you’re either going to yell at him, hit him, fake a panic attack or treat him like shit?

Unless his feelings involve criticising your behaviour.

If during one of these feelings sessions, he says he feels you’ve taken advantage of him financially, coercively controlled him by reacting so dramatically about him seeing his friends, physically assaulted him by slapping him and emotionally abused him by putting your ear to the door and listening to him privately then interrogating him repeatedly (when he’s asked you to stop) about what he’s been saying to himself… you’re telling us that you’d honestly be receptive to taking that all on board?

Or do you know if you’re really honest with yourself that if he said all that (which is all true and only what you yourself have told us) that you’d be defensive and lash out at him?

You're likely struggling with friends because everything is about you and your feelings. Relationships should be about give and take and in your romantic relationship it's clear it's all take, take, take. What do you think your partner benefits from being with you. How are you making his life better by being in it?

He's certainely financially and emotionally supporting you and providing a clean home and cooking food to eat. What are you bringing to the table?

You really don’t.

He shared his feelings about you when he was taking a shower and you made it all about you and how you feel about him talking about his podcast

He will be sharing his feelings but will you actually listen and not make it about you. Can you take onboard his feelings, not make excuses for your behaviour and think about ways you can alter your actions and responses that don’t cut him off and invalidate his feelings.

Poor guy probably thought the only place he could get some peace to practice for his podcast was in the shower, but no - apparently he can't even have some privacy in the shower.

Go to a psychiatrist who will diagnose you with Personality Disorder. Get the help you need.

Can I ask, do you have a diagnosed mental illness? I have BPD myself & reading your updates is very much how I've been in toxic relationships (both toxic for each other). I'm currently in a relationship with someone who validates, reassures me and we don't argue like this. I've had many relationships where I've acted like this though due to not being compatible. The right person wouldn't make you feel like this. I really think you guys should break up, take a year or two to yourself going through therapy alone working on yourself, maybe get some medication to help (I take venlaflaxine and propananolol) and learn to enjoy your own company and wait for a person who you are compatible with. Even if you don't have a mental illness what I've said still stands, there's no point putting either of you through this when it's clear you aren't compatible.

He’s not mega rich actually his business hasn’t done too well in the last 2 years due to the world going insane with war and all that.

he makes just enough to support his parents grandmother and me and has almost nothing for himself after.

We are on our last try, a real last try hence why he didn’t leave yet because he’s willing to try one more time, and same here

So what if he sits down and says: "I am scared of you because I can't do anything right, I can't have my own thoughts or feelings or friends? I pay for everything and when I asked you to contribute you see that as "demanding". You slapped me in the face and I had to calm you down because you hurt yourself. I asked you to record our fights because I wanted you to see how you behave but you don't. I am exhausted trying to find you friends just to give me a break. I have lost any sense of what is normal and myself and my own life because I am so scared of your reaction to everything I can't see anything ese any more."

If you love him OP you want what's best for him, so you would go back to Russia and get some help.

I notice you say your ex husband lacked ambition so you divorced him. How well do you think you're doing? You're up to your eyes in debt, no one wants to be friends with you, you've got your ear to the door of the bathroom in case someone is talking about you. Wouldn't you rather just be peaceful and happy?

Reading your posts actually makes me feel sick. You are abusing your partner in every way possible, please leave him, stop hurting him financially, emotionally and physically.
Each one of your posts reads as though you feel you're the victim and what you want. Take a step back and think why everyone has distanced themselves from you and start working on that. Your poor, poor partner.

My partner has entire conversations with himself in the shower. It's where he processes stuff. I would never dream of listening in to what he's saying and I don't think he even realises I can hear him. Some people have their best thoughts and ideas while they're in the shower. It's the fact that your body is on automatic pilot, which frees up the brain to hone in on important stuff. Leave the poor man alone and believe him when he says it has nothing to do with you.

I think your therapist is only half right.