Son wont introduce us to girlfriend

[lifesabench]

My DS (35) has had a few long-term relationships, but never married. I get the feeling this one might be "the one". Because he's always had different girls hanging around when my DD had her baby she didn't feel comfortable with the constant changing of arm candy. As such we stopped inviting them all round together. He may or may not turn up to ours with a girlfriend, so we just wouldn't invite them at the same time.

He phones regularly, but we don't see him much now to be honest. When we speak I ask what he's up to and he'll mention going out with his GF's mum or meeting up with her and her sisters for an outing. I have mentioned to him that we'd like to meet her, but he keeps batting away the suggestions.

I know he knows that his sister is the reason he stopped being invited to Sunday lunch and things, I did agree with his sister, that explaining the changing of companions was awkward with a small child, which is why I allowed it. But now, this girl has been 2 years, and he is very much involved with her family. I feel like I've broken something and have no idea how to fix it.

What she is being bashed about (and what could fix it) is the total lack of self-awareness.

She said that she apologised, but her son only cares if it is a meaningful apology and the OP doesn't want to do that, only give a meaningless apology to gain access to the mother of her future grandchildren.

For some reason she can't do informal meetings.

If she gained self-awareness and looked at her posts, it is clear, offer a meaningful apology and have an informal meeting.

Unfortunately you can’t do anything to change the past.

Did you completely take on board and admit to him how in the wrong you were to have gone along with your DD?

I wonder if it didn’t really go down well because in some posts on here you still seemed to be justifying it.

i don’t think you can expect more at the moment. If you have wholeheartedly admitted you were 100% in the wrong, not justifying (even to yourself) “because of the DGC” and not in the same breathe trying to achieve an outcome of meeting his GF, you will just have to play the long game.

The best thing would be to stop pushing your own agenda to meet his GF and make the most of the relationship you have already with your DS, which is something to be very grateful for given what’s gone on.

Hopefully things may shift over time, but stop trying to force a fix on the situation. You can’t blame him not wanting to introduce her to his family given the judgey exclusionary behaviours he’s been at the brunt of.

Your son has done nothing to be ashamed of and your daughter is obviously calling the tune because she is the one with your grandchild and grandchild trumps every one else. Now it seems likely that DS is doing what you and DD expect of him he is now welcome back. Maybe he is fed up with being pushed away by his own family and is happily accepted by his girlfriends family. I think you and your DD should apologise and see what happens from there.

This makes me feel terrible.
My SIL effectively cut her family out of her life when she met my brother and our family because she decided she was embarrassed of them.
We thought very highly of them.
Then - she cheated on my brother and her kids (my niece & nephew) cut her off!
So now she has no one.
Nope - don’t make a mistake in my family. You’re never forgiven and cast out forever.
I hope you and your kids can find a way forward that’s equitable and loving for everybody, @lifesabench
I hope you find peace. ❤️

Why would you force your BF and partner into what is a toxic situation?

You sound like someone that would do this and then support the in-laws over your partner.

Can you make it more casual then? Arrange to call in to his for half an hour “on the way to somewhere else” and meet GF briefly then rush off to your other business (even if made up) and take it from there. It’s a start point and from what you’ve said here then it could be more his kind of thing?

This.

I think that part of the reason @lifesabench's son is still keeping her at arm's length is because his sister has never been held accountable.

If the relationship is to be repaired I think three conversations need to happen.

1. OP to her DS: "I'm really sorry about the way we treated you and the way we let DD and her husband call the shots. We should have taken the view that any friend of yours was a friend of ours, and now I understand that because we were unwelcoming towards your previous girlfriends you want to protect your partner from us now. I really regret my previous attitude and I really want to do whatever it takes to be allowed to be part of your lives now and in the future."

1. OP to her DD: "We refused to welcome DS's girlfriends into our family life because you and your husband didn't approve, and now he's in a serious relationship and we are excluded from his life. I'm so unhappy about this and about the fact that I am now being kept at arm's length from the woman who may be his future wife and the mother of his future children. A big part of why he won't move on is because we prioritised you over him. I have to take responsibility for going along with it, but I want you to apologise to him, because it all started with you and your husband. This is the only way to fix our family."

1. OP's DD to her DS: "I'm so sorry. We shouldn't have been judgemental about your previous girlfriends. I'm sorry you haven't had a relationship with our kids as a result. I messed up and I can only apologise and want to make amends."

Both the OP and her daughter are responsible and they both need to apologise.

Do you understand exactly why he won’t engage in this way? Have you asked him specifically? And have you asked if there’s anyway you can fix this ?

OP apologised and he is a grown man.
If he won't accept an apology or speak to his sister, there's not much more OP can do.

The OP can take ownership of HER behaviour and apologise for that. She is not responsible for her daughter’s behaviour, and a reconciliation between her children, while perhaps desirable, is far from essential for OP to meet and have a relationship with her son’s partner. As you say yourself, he’s a grown man - therefore any argument with his sister is separate. OP needs to apologise - and actually mean it - for giving in to her demanding daughter.

She's said over and over that she knows she was wrong and has apologised.
She isn't shocked, she realises she was wrong.

But she’s done nothing about it though. She’s just whined about the fact that her son won’t introduce his girlfriend; she’s come up with endless excuses why she can’t invite her son - even if he says no - or just tell her daughter that she can no longer call the shots in her mother’s home.

OP is looking for a way foward, not the endless bashing over something she's already admitted to.

She’s NOT looking for a way forward. Every time anyone suggest anything that isn’t just “Awwh, your son is being a big old meanie and should forgive you”, she shuts it down and tells us why she couldn’t possibly do that - usually because it might offend her precious daughter’s morals and feelings.

You're trying to portray the OP as the victim of a “pile-on”, whereas in fact she’s just stubborn and self-pitying, and refuses to accept that there IS no magic advice that will help her get what she wants.

I think it’s time for a face to face with your son and with you eating.a lot of humble pie. He is obviously serious about this relationship but because of your daughter you have made him feel unwelcome. You daughter needs to grow up and you need to acknowledge your mistake to your son before you miss out on the rest of his life.

We're from big Irish families. My husband's family is particularly huge on both sides....people do fall out over silly things. This seems so minor to me compared to some of the things that caused family rifts in previous generations in our families, babies born to unmarried mothers, children dying, someone marrying someone who was the wrong religion and their family cutting them off from their inheritance because of it and never speaking to them again and so on. Yes it's in the past but not really that long ago and still in living memory for several of our relatives. So there's a lot of perspective and honestly they would call this silliness and totally something everyone could easily move on from. And I've seen people move on from things like this among our extended families....new cousins could totally turn the daughter's behaviour...who would want to miss out on cousins having a relationship no matter what had happened in the past.

OP hasn't changed her tune. She says flat out that her grandkids are her priority.

This is about optics and control.

OP knows that she's not going to look like saintly granny if she isn't even allowed to meet her son's gf and future kids because of her terrible treatment of her son. I suspect it would be considered emotional abuse. The misogynist criticism of long term gfs, the rejection, deliberately isolating him from family, that really paints a picture.

I think if OP tries to force contact, he'll go no contact. You can't fix years of alienation and bigotry and being treated as a pariah by his own family with anything OP has shown she doesn't even seem sorry. It's all about future grandkids. OP, you did your worst to him for years. How many years did you exclude him? Fake apologies aren't going to fix it and your own words show you don't mean it. You can't make it right because you aren't even sorry.

"He is one of those people who thinks an apology only means something if you put things right, and he sees no way to put it right so to him there is no point in a discussion. "

There is no apology or fix for the kind of hateful family dynamics you've participated in over the years. Give it up. You have a superficial relationship with your son because that's what you chose over the years.

When somebody shows you who they are, believe them.

But this is about the OP deliberately ostracising her DS and any GFs that he has had.
She has not put him in second place but in (at least) third.
It sounds to me like any attempt by the son to bring a GF round has been stopped by the OP herself because of her DD and DGC.
We also know that the OP and DD have spoken in a unfair manner about his GFs in the past.
Given the OP's lack of ability to see past her own issues and trying to pass them on to her son.

The son is being nice to the OP by seeing her on a regular basis but why would he want to put someone he loves in an unpleasant situation which likely as not would scare them away?

And I suspect that she really only wants to meet the GF because more grandkids maybe on the cards.
I do not believe that she wants to reconcile for anything other than her desire to have more grandkids.

Can you drop round to him / them?

Even if have to slightly orchestrate it. I’m passing on Thursday evening, can I drop in. Lend him something and pick it up. Get something for him and drop it round.

Try and make that normal.

it absolutely does not matter how your family would see this or what they would move on from. Its not about you.

I’ve read all your updates and I am appalled.

i don’t think you can put it right at all. In fact I think k the o it reason you’re asking to meet the GF now is that you can see she may have his children and you don’t want to miss out on that. Sadly I’d probably say you’re lucky to have a relationship with him I. The way you e described. I also think he has probably explained to his GF the dynamic and… wait for it… she doesn’t want to meet you either because you didn’t value her at the beginning of their relationship.

i also think there is a spattering of jealousy that he has a relationship with her family.

i think you have to stop brining it up with him and step away from that conversation to give him the space to consider when he (and his GF) think it is best to meet you. Be prepared that might not be ever.

the fact that you gave your DD so much power and in your words prioritised them is an action that I am sure you new regret. He has put his boundaries up and you need to respect that.

I think he’s protecting his GG actually
This all sounds strange
why would you let your DD dictate who is invited
At that age any companion should be introduced as a friend.. and the “ arm candy comment” will be showing by the way
He’s 35, it’s nice that he sees you, don’t push for change

GF

"What i want" - well you've just summed up the main issue. You've put your daughters wants before your son, and now your own wants.

Listen to what your son wants, or in this case, what he doesnt want. He doesnt want you to meet his girlfriend because of how you've treated him. He is likely very hurt by how he has been treated by you and his sister, he does not want to talk about it, because it hurts and he knows you wont do anything to put him first.

This is the consequences to your own actions so you just have to suck it up now.

Don't do that. That would just show even more how little you care about his wishes or respect his stand and are only thinking about what you want.

Why does she have to come round? Cant you meet at a nice, casual type place for brunch? Have you got old family friends that can come too so it’s not a pointed meet the parents moment?

Or host a bbq at yours so they are not the centre of attention?

Or if sitting down will be awkward, then a more interactive thing like walk and pub lunch, farmers market etc?

So many options to make it less awkward. I’ve always met my siblings’ new boyfriends/ girlfriends at parties or bbqs. it’s much less awkward that way and they can easily escape early if it all gets a bit much without appearing rude.

In mending bridges would dd and ds both come for sunday dinner together with their respective partners?

Surely now ds in in a long term relationship dd and her husband can't object?

Yes, this. I think this is what the DS means by a meaningful apology. He wants to see it accompanied with action, which is no longer allowing DD and SIL to dictate which family members the OP can invite to family events and no longer being controlled by their blackmail. The problem with separate meetings is that it still allows DD and SIL to control the dynamics, which is inappropriate as the OP is the family elder and it is her home.

At the end of the day, grandchildren are cute for awhile but become busy with their own lives when they grow up. It’s your kids who are the ones who check on you, continue to visit and make a fuss if your nursing home is not up to scratch.

Why should the son have to crawl to his controlling cow of a sister, saying “Look, I’ve got a serious partner now! Can I join in again, please?”?

If I were the son in this, I'd bloody object!