Son wont introduce us to girlfriend

[lifesabench]

My DS (35) has had a few long-term relationships, but never married. I get the feeling this one might be "the one". Because he's always had different girls hanging around when my DD had her baby she didn't feel comfortable with the constant changing of arm candy. As such we stopped inviting them all round together. He may or may not turn up to ours with a girlfriend, so we just wouldn't invite them at the same time.

He phones regularly, but we don't see him much now to be honest. When we speak I ask what he's up to and he'll mention going out with his GF's mum or meeting up with her and her sisters for an outing. I have mentioned to him that we'd like to meet her, but he keeps batting away the suggestions.

I know he knows that his sister is the reason he stopped being invited to Sunday lunch and things, I did agree with his sister, that explaining the changing of companions was awkward with a small child, which is why I allowed it. But now, this girl has been 2 years, and he is very much involved with her family. I feel like I've broken something and have no idea how to fix it.

He doesn't want anything formal probably because he's dreading the 'when are you two getting married and breeding me some more grandchildren because grandchildren are my life' vibe. It might frighten her away from the more low key relationship they've maybe established.

Meet for coffee. Meet at a farmers market. A picnic. A short, informal, casual, hi nice to meet you thing.

Tbh OP your update still seems like it’s all about you and what you want rather than his your DS actually feels.

You say you know what you’ve done wrong but your posts are still me me me.

You need to accept you may never have a relationship with your potential DIL and that’s her choice.

@lifesabench

You have said that you want to fix things with your son but what about your daughter? Are you going to have a word with her about her dreadful treatment of her brother or will that be swept under the carpet because she might cut off your access to the DGC?

Oh and you're not stuck between a rock and a hard place. Your DD has absolutely nothing to do with you building a relationship back with your son. What she wants doesn't come into it. It's what you want with him. She doesn't dictate and she certainly doesn't hold the 'you won't see the grandkids' card over you. Not her call - yours (and your son's).

Have you actually apologised to him?

except from what you have posted on here, you DON'T know. What you said was you want to meet her because she is potentially the mother of grandchildren....nothing about making your son happy, nothing about enjoying meeting his friends (the "arm candy")

Sometimes in life you fuck things up and there's no fix.

This is likely one of those fuckups.

He needs to keep his gf and any possible children safe from you. You're lucky he's civil to you. If you push, he'll go lower and lower contact.

His gf is not an incubator for future grandchildren for you to play favorites with

Agree. She’s let holy Joe dictate her family dynamics and now only interested in her DS and his partner so she can playing granny of the year.

Zero contrition or awareness just all about what she wants

Why is it more formal if it's just you?

Couldn't they just pop in for half an hour or so for coffee, a walk somewhere?

His sister doesn't sound as if she would have made it informal/fun even if they were getting on.

This.

Also, why does it have to be formal if it's just you (and your husband?) and them?

You don't seem to appreciate how unbelievably cruel you have been to your son. Your posts smack of what YOU want,not what he wants. Let him take the lead and if you never meet the girlfirend then so be it.

I should imagine he’s making an excuse to spare an awkward confrontational conversation OP. Saying he doesn’t want to do a one on one as it will be too formal makes no sense, it doesn’t matter that his sister wouldn’t be there as that would not have made it less formal. I’m sure it’s an excuse to not bring her round due to the damage done to your relationship. If she just wanted informal you could just arrange an informal meet at a nice pub or coffee, short and informal.

i suspect that an open conversation initiated by you after a grovelling apology is needed. Don’t dismiss that just because he’s made some vague excuse, the excuse I think proves he’s punishing you. By saying you and your DD have engineered a family split so he now no longer feels comfortable bringing his DD round as he doesn’t want to have to explain why his DSis isn’t there.

Your posts are quite exasperating. So many people have made sensible suggestions. Perhaps you aren't reading them or perhaps you don't want to do what is suggested. What you are certainly doing is playing the victim in a situation that has been entirely of your own making. You chose to exclude one of your children and prioritise the other constantly, which has created a long standing, toxic dynamic. Frankly, you are lucky that he visits you at all.
Your posts have continued to be poor me, but I can't, poor me from start to finish alongside nasty, judgemental phrases like 'arm candy' to describe his long term girlfriends.

Why are you obsessing about meeting his girlfriend? He doesn't trust you around her and she, no doubt, doesn't want to meet his unpleasant family, who have excluded him for years. Just accept their choice.
Wy are you obsessing over your daughter? Stop trying to force your daughter on him. Again, he has made his feelings clear. Accept his decision.

If you can actually be bothered to make the effort to improve the relationship (and it doesn't sound as if you do- you really don't seem to care about him), meet him alone outside the house for a quick coffee or walk. Don't ask about the girlfriend and show some interest in him. Do that repeatedly, perhaps over years and hope that the relationship improves. Can you be bothered or not?

Apologise. Say you are wrong. Spend time with your ds not asking when you can meet gf, but just chatting.

Ask him what you can do after about 6 months of you putting him first and blow the consequences if holy Joe and your dd withhold gc. Do not discuss this with him except to say you have been awful.

Maybe after a year you might meet the gf. But he's not ' bring her to meet you' to gain your approval. Frankly, it's the ither way around.

I don't think you can fix it tbh. You can only endure. Your ds isn't going to leave or socialise him, his gf family or any gc with holy Joe and his disciples.

Has your dd always been like this or is she trapped and you haven't even noticed as long as you see your gc?,

I don't think you understand what many have been telling you. YOU can't fix it. You certainly can and should apologize. And you should start issuing those invitations, and if your DD doesn't like it, she can stay away. BUT, that's simply 'making amends'. And in making amends you should have absolutely NO expectations of him as far as forgiving you or coming back into the 'family fold'.

The only one who can, well, not fix exactly since he didn't do anything wrong, but who can change the situation is your son. And it appears he doesn't want to, as is his right. He's apparently found a family that does accept him and has welcomed him into their lives. Your loss is their gain. But you chose your path, didn't you? And it appears he has chosen his. Accept it with grace and be glad of the contact he does have with you.

You can't cut someone out of the family and show such favouritism to another child and expect the 'scorned' child to run back into your arms when you suddenly realize what you've lost.

I do meet just him though. He comes round probably once or twice a month for dinner. What I want is for him to bring his GF round so that I can meet her. But he says no. I don't need to build a bridge to see him- our relationship hasn't broken down so far as to him not coming round.

When I try to apologise he just completely disengages and says, its done now, or its disappointing but the situation is what it is. Complete non-statements. He is one of those people who thinks an apology only means something if you put things right, and he sees no way to put it right so to him there is no point in a discussion. So we avoid the topic now to keep the status quo. Which isn't ideal.

For him, he likes the fact his GF parents has constant business and people dropping in and out and I think is embarrassed that we aren't like that.

Also people are blaming her son in law, I think that’s very easy to pass the blame, but she didn’t say her SIL wanted this, I’d hazard a guess that her and her DD are the ones worrying about how he perceives them. OP said in the OP that she agreed with her DD that it wasn’t appropriate for him to bring his GFs round. This is entirely her doing

Has this only been going on for 6 months? I had the impression it had been many years.

Your dd has far too much input in your life and you have allowed it (yes I know its because apparently she threatens to cut off your access to your gc) but that in itself is sick and warped and not at all christian.

Meet your son (and if he wants, his gf) outside your home. Meet in a park or a coffee shop. Build a relationship outside your restrictive and oppressive four walls. Why are you not capable of coming up with any ideas when dozens of posters are coming up with reasonable suggestions.

No I doubt he’s embarrassed, he’s angry and hurt at you all. He’s keeping her separate to protect himself. Your relationship appears to be surface level. You need to fix that by not kidding yourself that your relationship is ok because he still visits. He might not think it’s fixable, but if you change your behaviour you miggt find he lets you back in

There are a hundred different ways to meet the parents without it being a formal Meet The Parents. You could do a pub lunch, coffee shop short meeting, wander round a village fete, ramble, mini golf. So many different ways to get to know someone that don't involve posh napkins and a sit down dinner. A BBQ would be ideal while it's so sunny.
That there are so many ways this could work though suggests that he isn't looking for ways to make it work. This may well be his way of saying it's not going to happen without having to use those words and if that is the case you need to accept that.

Your posts are all about you @lifesabench. what you want, how you feel.

You seem to think someone on here will have a magic formula that will make your shitty behaviour go away and your son fall into line so you get what you want, which is all you seem to care about.

The only person who has that formula is your son. Who has repeatedly told you he doesn’t want anything to do with his sister and very deservedly so.

At no point have you replied about holding your daughter and her arsehole husband to account. Start there. That’s your magic formula.

Because otherwise it sounds very like you’ll go back to treating your son like a lesser citizen when it suits you all.

And it is beyond creepy that you are referring to a woman you have never met as the mother of your grandchildren. That your son is only worthy of being welcomed back into the family home if he’s providing grandchildren for you. And on your terms again.

Even in your last post you ask how you can fix it but also say nothing will make him happy. Negativity and passing the buck back on your son.

The best thing he can do is cut you off as well because you lack the ability to give one single shite about his welfare unless there’s something you want from him.

I imagine this is the last in a long line of behaviours where you’ve treated him badly to curry favour with someone else and then acted the victim.

@lifesabench

ffs, Op, he clearly doesn’t want you to meet his girlfriend! Just be grateful he gives you the time of day and still sees you after you fucked him off for the weird whims of his sister.

You are still not getting it at all. He’s not embarrassed he’s hurt and angry and found people who don’t judge him for not fitting into a narrow box. Your lack of self awareness is breathtakingly selfish.

You can’t do anything. You can’t fix this.

I completely agree with your DS that an apology without change is meaningless.

Accept that you’re not the victim, this is of your making and that his gf isn’t interested in meeting people who have treated her with contempt .

Then you should really appreciate the fact that he still makes an effort to see you once or twice a month and accept his feelings wrt you not meeting his girlfriend. It sounds as if you still continue to prioritise your daughter and gush over her family and he is relegated to the odd dinner and a superficial relationship. That's your choice. You reap what you sow in these sort of situations, generally speaking. If you want to change the dynamic and prioritise him for a change, you could do so but you don't seem to want to because you said that the grandchildren are your top priority.