July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Thanks for the new thread.

Thanks for the new thread Atila.

I created one not seeing his but have put in a request that it be deleted.

I have name changed since last thread due to dirty laundry all over the place.

@crazysnakes @Twatalert @SamAndAnnie @Dogaredabomb @AmeliaHarbottle @Shortbread49

@Happyfarm basically following on ... definitely look at some time to escape . I do see that you don't have chance or opportunity to come away from people who will take alot from you.

Not always their fault. Especially when we have children. You deserve time away from it.

It feels like it mirrors experiences you have had all your life and need a break from. It's the best way to see a bit more clearly when away from the fog of others.

Yes it does seem to be playing out my life experiences. They do say that life tends to repeat the cycle until you break it. Hopefully I can help my daughter by helping myself.

I think a lot of the issues we have with life is what we have told ourselves in order to get through it. If we can undo some of what we have learnt this can be passed on. Sometimes people are shit and that’s all on them. We don’t need to adapt to other people’s shit no matter who they are.

I changed also as I’ve aired a lot of washing as you say!

Now I have to work out who everyone is 😆

I recently came across the idea of survival strategies developed in an abusive childhood that aren't helpful any more as adults, and that resonated with me so strongly.

It says that as children we did what we had to in order to get by in a life controlled by abusive adults, and it says that now we can leave them behind and learn new, better strategies.

I've got undies, bras,socks,all unwashed and hanging on way too many threads girl 😆.

The survival strategy reference. It makes total sense. I actually thought yesterday, who actually am I. I try not get too deep but I was like a puppet in every single way all my life to my mum. And that was re enforced by others.

It actually has become severely worse in recent years because of being unwell and losing independence. Also being desperate for help with child rearing.

As a teenager I was more or less left to it and did my own thing. Incredibly infantalised with no confidence and scatter brained terribly though. My friends would help organise me. I was certain I was incapable of adulting.

Yesterday I realised I'm actually quite a feisty head strong and very capable person.

I will have to try manage it. I am struggling not to be myself, stick up for myself, pursue what I believe in and say that outwardly. It does feel safer to be a silent yes person. I don't want to go too far the other way tbh but somewhere quietly towards the person I am.

I have got better too, with time and distance, but I can see that there are still areas where I really struggle, especially in my interactions with other people. But it does help to know that when I look back and think why did I do that, why did I accept that, why didn't I challenge that, that I was making the best choice I could at the time.

The thing for me, looking back at myself as a teenager, is that I can see now that I was overwhelmed because I had been put in a position where I was being asked to carry the emotional load of an adult at 13. I'd also been told that it was my job to clean the house, so I was trying to do that too, and failing. (not just doing chores, but literally 'I've decided that from now on it's your job to keep the house clean.'). From being really young I was always told that i was so mature for my age, so sensible, so grown up, but I wasn't, I was an effing child! There is no such thing as a mature fifteen year old. They made me old (and then bullied me for it). I read something recently that said it's really common for parentified children to be told they're so grown up like this is a compliment and not a massive red flag and a sign that normal development isn't happening. I feel now like massive parts of my childhood were stolen and normal rites of passage were denied to me. I didn't have normal teenage experiences. I didn't even have a boyfriend until I was in my twenties because I had been told I was too ugly and I believed it.

One of the problems I have now, I believe, is that my mother liked the version of me who always put her first, who would rush in to take care of things, who never argued, who always agreed with her, who was terrified to disagree. She doesn't know what to do with me now I've realised I don't have to do that any more. She liked the maidservant version.

I guess as a child there are 2 choices. It’s my fault or it’s everyone else’s fault. Narcs are of the it’s everyone else’s fault category, the world owes them.

I'm slightly annoyed that my phone takes all things I discuss online and that then feeds an algorithm! 🤷

This insight today is pretty helpful based on our discussion....it feels so true. I stop and pause when I'm automatically about to do something ( when I can that is) and often I was about to respond/react according to programming. If I see it then I do naturally do just what feels natural.

@Crazysnakes it's all conditioned into us. But I realise that moving away from this role to say yes to everyone has meant I'm highly unlikeable for alot of people.

One friend, I now struggle to keep quiet on very opposed views. I would usually say yes. Now I often simply say 'hmm I'm not so sure about that '. I can feel that's creatine tension at times.

Remember most people came to us as the compliant accomodating people pleasers. They might not like the version that isn't that person I feel.

I've had another epiphany this afternoon off the back of this, which is that my training was that I should never upset either of my parents. I had this sudden realisation that if I said that I didn't like something that my mother wanted me to like, she's get all huffy and disappointed. Not angry, just wounded and hurt. So I learned to pretend I liked stuff so as not to upset her. Years of clothes I was mortified by, books that bored the pants off me, a haircut I hated. I wanted to please her so I tried so hard to like what she wanted me to like. It's like she had this idea of how I was supposed to be so I tried to be it and failed.

I tell my kids on a regular basis that they get to decide what they like. They don't need me to like it.

Hi everyone, stumbled upon the new thread and read the opening post. Hope it's ok if I join. Alot of what @AttilaTheMeerkat says rings true. For many years I've been unwilling to look at what life was like growing up and have blamed myself for all my issues and been perhaps overly understanding of my parents situation, but with the help of councilling am starting to understand the effect on me. I started reading the book The Emotionally Absent mother. It is quite painful. The relationship with them is very strained and superficial now and I feel like there is a lot of guilt tripping on their side. It's very hard to put boundaries in place. Now I have DC I find it hard to get how anyone could never tell a kid they loved them or show love and affection. I know it was a different time though.

@HamiltonsAnvil welcome to the thread!

I'm reading the same book, I'd be interested to share thoughts on it.

I also hate to displease. Whether this is training or just an inevitable outcome of emotionally neglectful parents. I’ve come to realise that I have a very strong feeling to rejection which means I try and avoid this by pleasing. Rejection by parents literally is life and death and I’ve carried this strength through my life even tho it’s unnecessary now I’m a grown up. Kept me in my marriage too long. I didn’t even notice the abuse as I was too consumed with rejection. It’s something I’m coming to terms with. Rejection is just normal life.

I think one of my greatest lessons was that I’ve set the bar of my life based on my mum. My empathy was to high when set against the empathy of my mum. I’ve tried to squash it down when what I needed to do was to build my life around it. I met a man with low empathy, what I needed was a man with empathy like mine. I’ve never honoured myself, my empathy is something to be honoured. I’m not sensitive or stupid like I’ve told myself. We often hide the very best of our qualities then spend a lifetime thinking we have none.

Im beginning to see that the message I got was in a similar vein but different - it was that I was responsible for other people's feelings. My father used to actually say out loud 'you don't want to upset me do you?' the weirdo.

I just hadn't realised that my mother was doing it too. The best way I can describe it is that I was expected to support them rather than the other way around. Pair of immature, self absorbed wallies.

I think my mother had a deep seated fear that I would be disappointed in her or not like her. There's a bit of background as to how she ended up there which I can understand in a way. But instead of working on this and being child focussed, this reversed situation happened in which she constantly needed me to reassure her that I was neither of those things and she ended up creating the mess anyway by making me responsible for making sure she didn't experience those feelings, if that makes sense.

My daughter does this. She pushes people away so that she has been the one to make the decision. I suppose I have done this also. If I make you the villain I can discard you and not deal with the feelings of rejection. It’s very unhealthy.

Or like your mum they get addicted to the make up, they need the reassurance that you love them. That’s BPD isn’t it?

I don’t know whether to be proud, to be ashamed to be embarrassed by how unhealthy I was. I feel I’ve grown 100 years. It is no wonder I’ve never really had one healthy relationship. I suppose this is life and at least I’ve done something about it and not just say and blamed everyone. I have played a part in my life so far being the way it was.

Welcome @HamiltonsAnvil

I've been in counselling for 15 years. It's crazy that it has taken me so long to pull away from my family even though it was clear it is so unhealthy. words like coercive family and dysfunctional mum were discussed often. Even when we got to the point where sociopathic behaviour seemed relevant - still very difficult for me to fully embrace and accept that.

It's great you have a therapist. I don't know how I would have endured and understood all this without.

It takes so much to get through this. We have been brainwashed after all. 💐

I'm not sure it's BPD, my understanding of that is that people with it have emotional responses that are out of proportion to the incident that has caused them. So a minor thing will be treated like it's the end of the world. Everything is an enormous drama that requires an enormous response - screaming, crying, self harming etc. These responses are easily triggered but very difficult to calm down from. It makes managing every day life very difficult, and then people don't want to be around you because you're such hard work, which then reinforces the fear of abandonment and belief that the world is unstable and against you.

One thing I've realised is that when you're a people pleaser/always say yes, you end up a magnet for people who benefit from having a doormat friend.

I don’t this is always true. I think we have been deceitful in who we are when we met them (unknowingly) we become the ultimate chameleon. We are the ones who change because we haven’t been authentic, they do not. It’s not always their fault that we have grown to realise we aren’t meeting people with our real face. We simply don’t align anymore.