July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I just wanted to say, that when you're involved with a narc and they are using you to boost themselves, it is impossible to ever do anything right. So if you'd offered an intense love, it would have been wrong, and he'd have bullied you over not offering 'quiet' love.

There is no way to be right for a narc, because that's not the game they are playing. They say it is, and I wonder if sometimes they even believe it, but it's a lie. They are lying. The game is that you are wrong and they are right, always.

A narc says I hate it when you insist that we go to restaurant X, we should have gone to restaurant y. That's where the worthy people go. I can't believe you like restaurant x, what's wrong with you. So you book restaurant y, even though you can't afford it and hate the food. At first the narc seems pleased, and the relief feels amazing, you've got something right! Finally, you've made them happy. But when you get there, the narc is suddenly shaking with fury and refuses to speak to you through the meal, and you beg them to tell you what the problem is and you're so anxious you're almost in tears, and eventually they say that they can't believe that you wore that dress, you ruined the evening, everyone was staring at you and thinking you were an idiot. How could you not have noticed? What's wrong with you? You beg for forgiveness, say you're sorry over and over again, bin the dress, which you only bought because they said they approved of the shop it came from, and some woman at work had a dress from there, and it cost a lot of money which you didn't have, but they said it would make them happy, only it turned out that that dress works on every woman but you, you look awful in it, didn't you realise that before you bought it, what's wrong with you??

Narcs are happy when they are putting other people down.

@Crazysnakes I suppose I never saw it like that, but you probably right. One time he booked an expensive weekend away for me. He was so happy on the way there and then once we got there he ignored me all weekend. It was awful and I was full of anxiety, he wouldn’t say what was up. I believe it was because he didn’t get the response he wanted from me. But if he knew me he’d know I hate this type of thing. I was uncomfortable the moment I knew it was an expensive thing with sit down meal. I felt he didn’t get it for me because if it was for me it would have been a place that I was comfortable in.

Why do coverts hide their grandiosity?

@JoyDivision79 how are you feeling today? It's incredibly hard what you are dealing with. I think you still care about your son even though he gets on the wrong side of the dysfunction. Did you say you are seeing a counsellor to help you navigate through this? God this sounds trite. I think you know what I mean.

That must have been a horrible, horrible weekend. I know exactly the sort of thing you're talking about, because we used to get very similar behaviour. I'm sorry you had to put up with that. How dare he behave that way? How dare he deliberately set that situation up?

What I think is really key with narcs is letting go of the idea that they are operating based on normal social rules. They're not. The normal rule is that if you arrange a weekend away for someone, you arrange something they like, right? If you give someone a present, you give them something they'd like.

Not if you're a narc, though.

But narcs don't do that, because giving you something you enjoy to make you happy is not the objective. He booked that weekend because he knew you wouldn't like it. I think I've told the story before of our last family holiday, where he stopped on the hard shoulder of the motorway, face like a boiled ham, shaking with anger, looking like he was barely in control of himself. It turned out that he didn't like the t-shirt I had chosen to wear (to sit for six hours, car sick and sweating, in the cramped back seat of an ancient Fiesta on a sweltering July day).

Booking a weekend they know you won't enjoy so that they can punish you for not enjoying it 'properly' is the objective. Give someone a christmas present you know they don't want and then punish them for being insufficiently grateful. Make them watch a film you know they'll be frightened by and then laugh at them for being afraid. Order food you know they don't like and then bully them over being unsophisticated. Take advantage of any opportunity that happens to present itself. If someone shows any signs of pleasure, be sure to kill that stone dead by telling them only an idiot would find pleasure in that.

They are actively seeking opportunities to prove that other people are unworthy and not as good as they are, that they are stupid, that they make mistakes. Sometimes they deliberately set up situations that will allow them to do that, other times they just take advantage of opportunities as they arise. A narc will never let a mistake just slip past unnoticed.

The biggest mistake we make with narcs is clinging onto the belief that we can please them if we just try hard enough. They don't actually want to be pleased.
You have to accept that you can never convince the narc that you're worthy. You can never make them think well of you. You can't change their mind.

His favourite quotes… “you think you are so clever don’t you”, “you think your family is better than me”. No I never did nor they but he seemed to have this in his head. My dad used to say he seems to have a bee in his bonnet. God my ex is a twat.

I feel in a tail spin at the moment. A few days ago someone I knew (not hugely well) took their own life. They suffered domestic abuse and the father was controlling badly so I have heard. Last night I got a migraine and was sick, today I feel dizzy and sick. I don’t know them enough for it to impact me like this. But I guess by body knows the very real experience of this. I have to go to work later and I hope this migraine clears, my head feels massive and hard.

Wow I'm so glad I stumbled across this thread, I feel seen!
Growing up with an abusive mother and enabler father I received a lot of mixed messages. Mum was OK as long as I agreed with everything she said and did. I had to walk a thin line of being successful enough that they could show off about me to other people, but not too successful because that would make them feel threatened. Something that was really tough was that when I was little I was seen and treated as the runt of the litter compared to my siblings. They were the 'peaked at high school' types but I turned out to be a late bloomer. The relationships with them were OK until I stopped being the runt of the litter and they could no longer feel superior to me. Once I started blooming, the abuse from them and from my parents really ramped up.
It took me a while but I finally removed myself from the situation. I occasionally speak to Dad but only when he calls, I don't call him. Again I have to be careful to underplay any achievements or he finds a way to put me down. I haven't looked back from cutting myself off from the others.

Mine too! Kept having babies because she loved babies, but absolutely loathed children and teenagers. I don't know why she didn't realise that babies don't stay babies forever. Told me constantly that she wished I was dead and was counting the days until I left home, yet was surprised that when I left home I hardly came back. I finally went NC three years ago.

@Strawberrypjs hugs. I think that's a totally normal response to a shock like that.

I barely knew them, only in passing. But it’s freaked me out emotionally because I know how it must have felt, so very alone. I’ve took the day off work and sat in the dark but my head is going to explode. I was so lucky that I pulled though, even though it’s still hard. He took her kids, I don’t think I could have got through without mine. This is one of the issues with being so empathetic, I feel everyone’s pain. Probably why I spend a lot of time on my own.

Aw bless you. I'm actually mostly devastated by other things ( my health stuff) so that makes me really struggle with this through hyper focus. Because I'm stuck here often unable to get out. I believe people see this and it emboldens bad behaviour from them. My ex has proceeded to text me and it's the usual. It's a bit like, you look like a target I can now go at.

I am just wanting a different life really. That's the problem. I can't easily escape this one. 😘

My ex mocks my health and uses it to laugh at me, tells my daughter I make it up so I can “sit on my arse all day”. They are real scum.

Ill people are an easy target to these types of people. It takes a real low life to get ego supply from a sick or vulnerable person.

@PithyTaupeWriter You are definitely seen and heard. I’m sorry you had to go through that, i’m nc with everyone, its a more peaceful place to be

That's horrible and I'm sorry you have to face that crap. I have really really covert and insidious behaviour. It isn't quite open like that but highly manipulative and I'm sure using others to plant ideas. It's all so horrible and using subtle manipulative language. I don't understand why it's difficult for people to say actually I made a mistake and not do this stuff. The people who are the worst with this behaviour have never said sorry ever for anything. It's all deflected.

You made me remember a comment my IDVA made about my ex. They said he was manipulative and dangerous but also overtly stupid. He wasn’t clever enough to hide any of it and actually admitted it all in court. Tried to say I made him do it which didn’t work. He relied on being scary and it worked well on me. He was a bully. These covert ones as I’m learning are very very clever at hiding their intentions. My MIL is super intelligent.

Hello everyone! Thanks @AttilaTheMeerkat for the new thread 🙏

For anyone who is interested, I finished reading the emotionally absent mother by Jasmin lee Cori and recommend it. She goes into reparenting your inner child, which I'm not quite sure about, but there were lots of things in it that totally resonated with me.

She says the anger is healthy, about how being unseen makes us feel that our parents don't really like us, and about how we can feel free of our mothers.

Fwiw it's now weeks getting on into months since I last heard from my mother. I've not quite figured out what this means. I've started to wonder if it means that the relationship is over.

It means that she doesn’t care, remember there never was a relationship (in the usual way). You are the one with the relationship with her, she is in a relationship with herself. If you stop giving her anything then what use is there of you, positive or negative.

We are nothing outside of their supply, we cease to exist. Which is appalling if you are their family.

I have felt for a long time that there were times when I was useful, and times when I wasn't. She's been her most unkind when it's a not useful phase.

I'm starting to feel freer without contact, lighter, like I have more energy, the future seems less stressful. Sometimes I think I would just like her to admit that she doesn't really like or understand me and that she isn't actually that bothered.

She would need to be able to see you first and that is just something they aren’t able to do. You are of use or you don’t exist. Nothing in between, they really don’t think about us at all outside of their needs.

@Crazysnakes Did you want NC with your mother? It would have been my dream if my parents left me alone after I said I don't have interest in speaking to them again. I appreciate it's disappointing. I had a slight disappointment when I realised they wouldn't move heaven and earth to understand and start to work on themslves, but instead just wanted to ignore what I said and continue. But then it also proved the whole point.

I would say continue to emotionally disentangle from your mother, enjoy that it's over and a better life awaits you.

Not a firm state of NC as such, I just don't want messages, phone calls, or visits 😆

I don't know what i want long term. I just find contact with her so, so stressful. I become tense and anxious and I'm constantly on edge, thinking what does she want, please don't ask me for anything, please don't put me in a position where i have to say no, please don't start one of those weird conversations where you act dumb about something and ask me to explain it. Please don't tell me all the things you're doing for siblings, where I'll be lulled into a false sense of security and maybe ask for something for me which you'll immediately say no to. And I don't like my kids to see who I am in front of her, or to see her, because I feel so ashamed of what I've come from, and then I'm ashamed of my shame.

When I get stressed it triggers my illness to flare up and it really hurts, and I don't want that either.

I was thinking about what @SamAndAnnie was saying about self esteem. I think I understand. We have to learn that we are simply amazing outside of what people think. I have lost the ability in a way to see all the amazing things that I have done and that I was born extraordinary (as we all are). I don’t have to do anything, we just are extraordinary. I’ve lost myself outside of others perspectives. This is what narcs do to you. You are nothing nice outside of what they want and obviously you can’t fulfil what they need so we get a voice in our head that we are nothing important.

I’ve had a conversation with my eldest this morning as she has a headache. Came back from weekend with her dad so let her have the morning off school. He has been putting me down at the weekend over money and what I earn and what he earns. I’ve simply told her that mummies worth is priceless. No amount of money makes us anymore amazing. Mummy is here with you, I’m here when you are sad, I teach you about friendships, I’m with you whilst we go through the ADHD referral, I painted a lovely mural in your bedroom. No amount of money can buy this, it’s love and it’s free. I do it because you are worth it even if you struggle sometimes.

@Crazysnakes totally get it. It's almost like they triggered me so much that I behaved in a way that made it seem like I was the problem. It's awful. Enjoy the silence I would say. It must be so much less stressful, albeit disappointing on some level too.

I'm quite interested in the Macrons. I'm sure one is the abuser and this isn't just a bad patch in their relationship, but I can't figure out who. Just goes to show its impossible to tell from public display. I go from 'he is' to 'she is' and back. Given the age difference it MUST have started with her. She must have had so much more power when they first dated. Anyway, wrong thread for that.