July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I don't forgive either, but I am able to feel a little compassion for what twisted fucks they must be/have been. Or just off the scale selfish?

I think there's such a thing as toxic positivity which drives me nuts 'oh look on the bright side, at least it's over now'. Yes, OK.

I don't think I'm angry, just alone (I have adult children and a dog) but it's a different alone. I can do everything alone, but I'm just so tired of being capable.

I guess this might be where a good husband would come in useful. I've only had shit ones 😂 because OBVIOUSLY I'm an emotional moron.

I think that being told to look on the bright side and get over it and forgive is just another way of telling us to present with emotions that are easier for other people, which is what we spent our childhoods doing.

We are allowed to be angry and sad and any other feeling that comes to us. The whole range of emotions are allowed whether other people like it or not.

I am finding it good, I've highlighted multiple paragraphs already to go back to later, and I'm only a couple of chapters in. I had the same response to the same bit. For me it was the bit about the mother finding the child delightful - the sense of just enjoying the child as their own wonderful unique self. She liked me as a baby, I think, because she liked the attention she got because she had a baby with her, but she did actually say to me once that by 18 months I was boring. (She got bored of my eldest around the same age).

You're so right cheekysnake! 'Get over it, for ME'. Nah, piss off.

Do you remember the film 'Life of Brian'? Brian /Jesus is hanging there nailed to the cross singing 'always look on the bright side of life'.

Also the song 'pack up your troubles in your old kit bag and smile smile smile' well that was written by a soldier for a competition. Killed himself a month later, just saying 😂

Actually I'm feeling really cheerful today, going to do some gardening and go for a walk.

That's strange, Mum adored babies too. Also young children too, loathed teenagers.

Yep, the are really saying that they'd rather we didn't because they aren't enjoying it.

Well guess what, mother, I am angry and I am disappointed and let down and pissed off and I'll, and your behaviour was awful, and I'm not here to just to serve and protect you any more.

Babies can't talk back or walk away

I don’t see an issue with looking on the bright side. There has to be a balance, you don’t want to spend all your time in the dark as you end up stuck. There are many amazing things in this life. We heal not to forget the trauma but so we can experience the joy. We have to be able to let the joy in.

It's not about never feeling joy or pleasure, it's about being told you that those are preferably and it's wrong to show so called negative emotions because it harms other people of you do, thereby making us responsible for their wellbeing.

But we are allowed to feel everything

I agree that counselling can be incredibly difficult and it might be too much and therefore unhelpful. Being out in nature is so calming. Through therapy i'm encouraged to always seek goodness. So that means being in places or around things where we instinctively feel safe. Because people are so problematic and I only really trust 2 people, I too have to choose nature.as my good place.

Watching animals and videos of animals really helps me too.

A part of me will always be ready to cry. I think that's fine. There's alot to cry for isn't there. It's good to cry.

So true. Once one starts becoming more autonomous and speaking for them self, they can't be manipulated. Teenagers are the epitome of that.

I don't know if anyone here has seen the series Animal Kingdom. It happens to be a brilliant series. It's a very excellent and unsettling reflection of a narcissistic/sociopath family cult with the grandmother as the sociopathic matriarch manipulating all her sons.

There's a reflection in the series where a daughter in law challenges the matriarch granny explaining how she will eventually hate her young malleable granddaughter once she ' gets a pair of tits'.

It resonated so much. So hideous but true.

Yeah I get that. We have to give our negative feelings a voice sometimes and tell them they are no longer helpful as we have learnt a lot and adult them towards some joy. We already know that we can feel what we want, that we aren’t responsible for others feelings. Well I hope that it’s a cycle that I can continue as in my journey my memories are of no more use to me anymore. That is of a version of me who no longer really exists. A lesson well learnt. But that is just me.

I think it's something that not's talked about very much, how some women struggle cope with their daughters once they reach their teens and start to become sexually interesting to men. Not because they're afraid for their daughters, but because they're jealous of them. I 100% know this happened with my mother. Some of the behaviour during my teens was so, so odd, looking back. She told me I was 2 clothing sizes bigger than I really was so I had all these enormous clothes that were hanging off me, XL t-shirts on an 8 stone teenage girl. And then in my late teens, after she'd ended the marriage and got herself a new boyfriend, she was so smug and keen to make sure that I knew that she was more interesting and more attractive than me, and wasn't he just so handsome, didn't I think he was handsome, and other women were always coming on to him, she'd seen it. Porn on the family computer. Slutty underwear on the dryer in the kitchen. She was always groping him in front of me. It was grim and in hindsight, a totally inappropriate way to behave, especially coming out of that marriage with very damaged children.

Narcissistic mothers can often be very jealous of their daughters and see them as competition for men and or male attention.

And it goes without saying they make for being deplorably bad parents too. Many of the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded. They cannot do relationships at all.

I wonder if narcissistic mothers often create narcissistic sons? Do daughters tend to be scapegoated more?

My mother adores babies and I think it's because they don't say no and don't discriminate. She was a kindergarden teacher and chose the group with the tiny babies over the older kids group. She said she preferred that. In a way babies do give the narc supply in form of dependence and attention. I saw it with my niece too. But as soon as she started talking and not liking some things my mother turned on her.

It’s easy to look like a great parent with non emotionally dependent and invested children. My MIL was a child minder. Bonus that other mums thought she was as great as she thought she was and wanted to project she was. Loads of supply so was worth the effort, but then it’s not effort if you getting reflected back what you looking for, what you already know you are. They already know they are the world’s most amazing parents. It’s a child’s fault if this doesn’t fit. All these other non invested kids and families back up the narrative

Their reputation precedes them. The way it was hyped up when I got pregnant, I was majorly disappointed.

OMFG!!!! My mum opened a nursery! Totally unregulated obviously. I went in there once and took a book off a shelf and looked at it. She went fucking apeshit at me.

I need to scream. I went to my father’s funeral this week. Everything in me told me not to, but my uncle really wanted me to be there. It was hell…
The minister clearly believed he knew what had happened… he didn’t… he spoke of two people who found love again after their marriages fell apart… no, not quite! He described a man I didn’t know… upstanding; a wonderful father; a police officer; a Freemason; a church elder… His family had asked me to provide photos of him with us, and I could only find three, but I sent them… I wanted to be the bigger person… but to see them on the screen, whilst hearing about this amazing man… I felt completely sick. I cried, not for him, but for the Dad he never was…
His wife was horrible. She made me hug her, then whispered in my ear that she would be putting some of my father’s ashes with my two brothers (‘and your Mum’) and would still go to the grave on the anniversaries… it was like a threat… Legally, the grave now goes to her, unless he has left it to me in his Will. That makes me feel sick to the stomach.
She said that I was a dreadful daughter, and how much he had loved me and tried to see me… (yeah, right…) how they couldn’t have children of their own and I was so cruel to him over and over again…she then told me about a daughter she aborted because she would have been disabled. I just stared at her… I wish I could have thought of words but I was gobsmacked… it seems his wife will continue the bullying for him, now he is gone…

If they could have had children, I would have reported him. The only thing that stopped me (apart from the fact that he himself was a police officer/Freemason/church elder and who would believe me?) was that I could never have put Mum through that… she knew about the violence, and bless her heart she took a lot of that too; we all suffered from his rages… but I never told her the rest, because that would have destroyed her…

BUT! I had a very good chat with the daughter of my father’s cousin - she came up and hugged me in the Crem and was so kind… She said how surprised she was to see me there, because my father told them all years ago that I’d joined a cult!!! Wow! I never even knew I’d done that! (I’m guessing that was his lie to cover my absence from any family events etc?)
She hated the funeral too… she felt it was all pomp and ceremony and nothing was real. But that was him! All about appearances, always!
Then she asked me how I felt, and I said it was like hearing about a stranger, and I really struggled…we chatted, and I cried… again… and then I told her a bit about the violence… and she started to talk about how her father used to beat her and her oldest brother too… and she described the way he would flip over nothing… exactly like my father… we both sobbed… but I think we both felt better for absolutely understanding what each other had said. The beatings until we cried; the spitting; the rage… it was exactly the same.
(She doesn’t think her abuse ever became sexual, although when I told her about how crude my father was, she said hers was just the same… I hope it didn’t get any worse than that for her, I really do!)

What a horrible day it was! Why did I even go?
I’m such a fool!

I’ll bounce back somehow… I’ve managed so far… but each time, a little more disillusioned… and a little less hopeful!

Sounds like an awful experience. What are you less hopeful of?

To be honest, I’m less hopeful of ever being able to break free from his control… I thought I would be free now, but it doesn’t look like that will happen, because now, his wife is pulling the strings…

Whilst you remain within the family radar the narc will always remain in control. This type of disorder distorts all members. He will have distorted the whole system of your family. It’s awful. Nothing you can do to change this, it’s a whole system not just one person, it will continue to operate without him. I guess the only freedom is complete no contact. What we don’t see we don’t worry about, because you can be assured it will still be operating with or without your presence.

You are not a fool 💐.

You felt compelled to go. Something in you made you go and there would be a reason for that. Possibly this additional horrible experience is another reminder so that you always pull away from this type of person and dynamic. We continually go back again and again for a reason. I think we kind of have to.

Do you have to have contact with the wife? Why do you have to remain in contact with her?