July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I have no direct contact with her… but I might need to if I want to get the deeds to my family grave transferred to me…

Have you had legal advice? It might be possible to do it all via solicitor.

Speak to a solicitor re this matter. Do not contact that person directly.

I am not in contact with her and never have been. It’s just this issue of legally the deeds to the plot where my brother and Mum are buried will go to her, and that is absolutely killing me!

i would contact the cemetery office at the relevant cemetery.

I have contacted them and they are looking in to it for me..

Suggestions for raising self esteem and self respect which does not require the validation of others. We are social animals so is this even possible?

Sometimes I have a little wobble because I am “different”, not as social. Last week a group of work colleagues went out, I wasn’t invited as I don’t work so many hours anymore. I was when I worked more. I realise friendships are quite “right time right place”, transactional as others have said, you have something to offer that they need at that time.

As a child we build self esteem by our parents mirroring back to us that we are worthy. How do we build this when there are no mirrors? Especially when you are a little different.

@Strawberrypjs I've not figured out the self-esteem thing yet. I'm working on it. I've always been aware on some level that I have low self-esteem, but it's something I'm quite ashamed of and I work very hard to hide it though I've been made aware that I've not done a very good job of it (my therapist picked up on it v quickly).

I think in your situation, it's OK to feel a bit sad that you weren't invited. That's a normal feeling. What it's telling you is that you'd like to be invited, and that's helpful, because you can do something about it - let people know that next time something is organised, you'd like to be included. People aren't mind readers. If you don't say anything they might not realise. They might think you don't want to be included, assuming they've thought about you at all, which they probably haven't, because the truth is that we're just not that important or interesting to other people most of the time. That's not an insult but it's something I've found incredibly freeing.

I know our brains take this stuff personally, and we start to think that others must have actively chosen to exclude us, but we need to be aware that although we are having these thoughts, they're not facts.

@Crazysnakes I suppose it’s regrets that is getting to me. I have so much to be grateful for and comparison is the thief of joy and all. One thing that has always evaded me is friendship. Too much time surviving abuse and my undiagnosed ND. I really notice it’s missing in my life. People I know on SM writing loving messages over birth, marriage, death of their friends/family. No one is going to do that for me. People talking about how important their friends are, how they couldn’t get through life on their own. I have and it’s not great to do it alone.

re your comment:
"People I know on SM writing loving messages over birth, marriage, death of their friends/family"

Strawberrypjs (great name that!)

I would consider coming off all forms of SM. This is also an ideal tool for narcissistic types to write such about their families whilst at the same time hating their very being. SM is a big fake and it is all for clicks, likes and show - look at the Beckhams for instance and their ongoing protestations of loving each other. It is a sham.

I would far rather receive a hand written message in a card than those over the medium of SM or a smartphone. At least some thought will have gone into that. I was most appreciative of such when my dad died earlier this year.

Realise this:

If you change who you are to fit other peoples' preference of how you should be, there will always be people who will still judge you.

If you are true to yourself and treat yourself with respect for being who you naturally are, there will always be people who will still judge you.

The difference is that one requires you to keep up an act your entire life and the other allows you to enjoy your life for the unique gift that it is.

You will not be loved by everyone for being yourself, but you will be loved by the right people.

You could be the coolest, sexiest, smartest person alive. You will still be judged no matter who you are.

You could be the most ethical, thoughtful, cautious person alive. You will still be judged no matter what you do.

You could be the most articulate, well informed, open-minded person alive. You will still be judged no matter what you say.

You cannot control what other people think of you, and it's actually not even any of your business. You will drive yourself crazy if you try to cater to what you think everybody else wants from you.

Find out what you like. Find out what makes you happy. Find out what makes you feel alive. Focus on these things and finding like-minded people and you will be fine.

Yeah I know lots are fake. Lots of it is real also I think. Lots of people have loving friendships. I’ve never received a hand written anything. I’ve never really had a friendship that has been real. I sound like a sad twat but no one has ever sent me a msg so say “you’ve done well”, “I’m proud of you”. Nothing I’ve ever done has produced any recognition. My partner now does not communicate this way, my child is ND and tells me I’m a rubbish mum, no family have ever said a nice word. It’s hard to keep positive when there is zero reflection of good on you from the world.

First off, social media is performative bullshit. It's a public display, which means that people are only presenting a carefully selected part of the truth. None of it should be taken seriously. We know better than anyone that what happens behind a closed front door can be very different to what's presented publicly. And it's like the end of the Truman show, when everyone immediately loses interest and moves on to the next thing. It's not real.

For all you know, the people writing those loving messages don't mean a word of it and behind the scenes are dealing with a family where a dominant narc will throw an almighty tantrum if those posts aren't made. They're posting because they haven't actually seen the other person in two years but want to pretend that the relationship is still alive. I told my father I loved him because that's what he wanted to hear and it made my life safer, but it was a lie. I bet your BIL and SIL post about their amazing family on socials but you know it's not what it appears.

But if you want to expand your social circle, that's doable. It takes time and a bit of effort but it's not impossible. Gym classes, book club, a local group for an interest you have (eventbrite might have some, and the local library probably will).

I agree with this 100%. I didn't have to tackle the issue of my father and social media because I cut contact with him before it was invented, but I know for certain that he would have used it as a tool of abuse, and we would have been expected to perform 'happy family' for photos and posts, and that he would have lost his temper if we didn't post according to his ever changing, unspecified rules. I use it very little, only for my job, and the bare minimum.

It is not real.

I find this hard to understand. I face life with one face (perhaps this is where I go wrong). I use SM at times but I present the good the bad and the ugly. It’s all real. I don’t really understand friendships to be honest.

SM is a big fake and I would readily presume that over 90% of it is not real. Its a distortion.

I am so very sorry Strawberry that you lucked out in the parents stakes so I would grieve for the relationships you should have had rather than the ones you actually got.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents so is your partner just another similar version of them?. What's going on with them?. I am certain your child does not think you're a bad mother at all and your child says that because you are their safe person. It is trite but true - you need to find your tribe.

I do not have many true friends but I value quality over quantity and I can have sensible and two way conversations with them. It has taken many years to work this all out!.

Oh God my survival strategies are toxic independence..... I don't need anyone (not true obviously) but it feels safer, hence being single in my 50s as I have no idea how to have a relationship at all... not one clue. And when I have been in relationships, they've been toxic too. Thanks mum!

It is expectations that has always let me down. My ex always used to say that I wasn’t living up to his expectations of a wife. I had no idea what these “expectations were”. If I was behaving more like I should then I would have got a better version of him. I don’t know my expectations in a friendship but I know there are. I suspect my ASD is working against me. I have no idea of expectations and I just want people to speak clearly what they want of me.

OMG my father had the same thing about unspecified expectations and standards. It was never quite clear what the expectations and standards were, only that I didn't live up to them, and most likely never could.

In hindsight it was just a bullying tactic, a way to belittle me that couldn't be challenged.

It’s everywhere. I have C.F.S and I’m ND, it’s an absolute minefield. People “expect” me to be able to do things and be ok with things because to them it’s easy. They look at me like I’m an alien when I enforce my boundaries. I’m getting disheartened by it all. I’m not stupid or less worthy because I find things hard that others find easy.

I think we are projecting everything we wish we had onto people who write these loving things on SM. I get fooled by this too. My SiL writes WhatsApp statuses like that and they have not much on common with reality. Once she put how her MiL (my mother) is like a real mother to her. I felt like I had been punched in the face.

But then I'm the only one in this family who sees through everything and maybe they believe what they write. That's the thing. It's not enough to have gone through what we have gone through to understand what it's like. I think you need to actually KNOW and understand what you have gone through to understand.

That's different, though. I've got a chronic illness, there are some things that are tricky for me, I don't drink alcohol, I have to be really picky about food, travelling is difficult, I take a lot of medication, some of which has to be taken at a certain time of day, so I'm on a timetable for daily life. It's normal for people who don't know to expect me to meet in a pub, to go out for dinner, to catch a train somewhere, to go to the cinema in the evening, because those are all normal things that the majority of people can do, and I don't blame people for making assumptions.

But with a narc, it's different, because their expectations aren't normal (and often aren't even clearly stated, you're just somehow expected to magically figure them out).

No I don’t blame them for their assumptions but I blame them for what they do next, for the lack of compassion. At work for example I get constantly, well you look fine, just push through it, I blame them for their ignorance. I’ve caught managers laughing about the actions of some staff members Autism. Behind the scenes most people and I could be wildly stereotyping but they mock and laugh at us. People aren’t nice, in the quiet, when you aren’t looking they could well be laughing. OMG relationships when you’ve suffered relational abuse is just a minefield. How to be close to something you’ve learned to be afraid of. I just can’t unlearn it all. I wonder if friendships will just not be within my reach.

My mother used to act like mother of the year with friends of mine from primary school. She would be all kind and attentive and speak to them in a sugary voice. I remember once having a friend stay over and she put on the act, running a sink of water for her, saying shall I help you wash your face etc. I'm ashamed to say I lost my temper. I must only have been 7 or 8. I just remember feeling so angry and shouting at my mother than she never offered to help me. The other girl burst into tears and then I was so ashamed. She didn't want to be my friend after that and I can't blame her.

It felt just how you describe, like a punch to the face.

Have a look at the National Autistic Society's website section on family life and relationships. Sorry but MN are not letting me link the thread!

(Generally speaking autistic adults are far more likely to find themselves in abusive relationships and or have problems forming and maintaining friendships). What you are feeling is not unusual at all.