July 2025 - Well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I have now set up a new thread as the previous one is now full.

This long runnning thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat for details.

Some books:
Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I’m embarrassed by it. I would like to be married but who the hell would come and be genuinely happy for us. There wouldn’t be photos like I see from others, lots of partying with loads of friends and family. Sharing their day with all their loved ones. The whole things fills me with sadness rather then happiness.

You need to re read this.

You're saying you wouldn't get married because other people wouldn't make enough of a fuss.

You don't need other people to make a fuss of you in order to be a good, decent, valuable human being. That's not how your worth is measured.

Are people who elope and have no-one there but themselves worth less than people with a guest list of 500?

No I hate fuss and that’s also part of the reason I’m too scared to. I am a conflicted person. Audhd. My choice would not be to elope, it’s a forced choice and there is an alternative. I want a wedding with my dad (who died) and parents who are happy, extended family who aren’t hateful, a few friends (who I don’t have). I embarrass myself with the lack of relationships.

I know it feels embarrassing, but it isn't. Lots of people come from difficult families. Our origins are not our fault. We don't choose our parents. We do, however, have to make peace with what is, somehow.

I had a conversation with my therapist last year about this exact same problem - feeling ashamed of the family circle, or lack of. She asked me what I would think if I met someone who didn't have any contact with their family. I said, well, I would probably assume that it was for good reason. She asked me if I would think less of them for it and I said no, I would probably think that they were brave, because it is a brave choice, to separate yourself from your family of origin, to stand alone, to say I am going to be the one to change things, it ends with me. Lots of people don't do it. They stay connected, often closely, to family members and spouses who abuse them, because they're scared to step away and carry the weight of standing alone.

That's heartbreaking and difficult to read. I can just imagine the kind of anger and also betrayal. Just shows that they KNOW what would be seen as kind and so on and chose not to with us. It was never your shame to carry.

I'm so overwhelmed and devastated by my life today. I'm trying so hard to hold it together and I feel swamped by the darkness of people. I will try hard not to write too much.

My mum - sociopathic ( covert bitch )
Brother - narc at least ( awful awful behaviour)
Ex ( the same but doesn't leave a trail of destruction behind him. I find him hard to figure out).
My teen - going the same way

And I'm mentally and emotionally suffocated. It's just me, my health issues are worsening but I'm a professional at hiding all of it.

I desperately want to see my son. It's however so difficult at times. I am flooded with adrenaline constantly when interacting.

Today teen is doing this -

' I'm making things up about my teen including all his conditions (Autism etc). I have a mental health condition which causes me to do this making up illnesses for other people. Dad and his family are sick of all my labels I'm making up. I've been accused of saying child had a serious concerning MH Condition - which I didn't. Now, I'm saying he's gay too apparently'.

The reality is - I've made a mistake saying child's dad is Autistic to son a while ago ( he is and I will die on that hill) he's reacted very badly hearing it - clearly as he's accusing me of the above.

I understand I must say no more as it's a line I crossed. It is not an insult. He's incredibly successful and not defective from external standards at all. The whole family is ffs. His darker behaviour I attribute to something else.

Anyway - every single person in the above list is devoid of empathy and ability to be accountable. All of them saying I'm a MH case. Because, I speak truth and am accountable and am sick of other peoples hideous behaviour. I am an alien amongst this.

My teen is the only vehicle for this remaining. I have NC mother and sibling. Teen sees her sporadically. I can't stop it at all. Again it's me as the bad guy here.

I have almost NC with ex which is definitely best. Yet, things with teen which are beyond concerning - where do I go with that. He's the main carer with his partner. I don't think she's dark. I don't understand why she's there tbh.

Ex has and will gaslight me on every single thing. Child has a friend watching porn in front of him. Ignored. Me gaslit. This is the response to everything I raise. This guy( his dad) is a professional in London. Not stupid. Happy to ignore everything I raised ( gently, kindly).

My teen is saying things i am finding hard to deal with. Misogynistic, victim blaming ( she deserved it haha, oh just a joke) gay people are gross etc etc -you get the picture. I challenge it and the above bullshit comes out. I challenge it always. I raised it with his dad who apparently said it's me over reacting. Teen will say.....

' dad thinks it's just you and I agree. '.

Let's add my witch mother and deviant beast sibling as people who will do this. These people are disgusting with no morals, no values and the only one who behaves more like an adult is me. I am totally alone in this soup of shit.

I wasn't adult today. I went low. I don't want any part of this any longer.

I am struggling so very much to be around any of this. I don't want it. I'm fighting a losing battle with my own child. I don't want to be around this. I don't know how to mentally detach and accept and ignore all the above shit.

@Twatalert there have been other things, over the years, but I'm less emotionally invested now (and not 7), so I just quietly think to myself OK, I see you. Sometimes she has let things slip. She treats the siblings (bio and step) v differently to me.

@Strawberrypjs

I find this hard to understand. I face life with one face (perhaps this is where I go wrong). I use SM at times but I present the good the bad and the ugly. It’s all real. I don’t really understand friendships to be honest.

Not SM but I used to be an oversharer IRL. This was because I had no idea about boundaries. Then I discovered them, got some, share less now because I prefer having a bit of privacy (just didn't know it was allowed) and life is better for it.

it is expectations that has always let me down. my ex always used to say that i wasn’t living up to his expectations of a wife. i had no idea what these “expectations were”. If I was behaving more like I should then I would have got a better version of him. I don’t know my expectations in a friendship but I know there are. I suspect my ASD is working against me. I have no idea of expectations and I just want people to speak clearly what they want of me

You'd never have won with your ex. If you'd have been his everything he'd just have changed the goalposts again. People like him want you to lose, so they can have that "stick" (of failure) to beat you with.

Regarding the rest of society...Not saying I'm correct on this but IMO this is remnants of people pleasing behaviour. I start with good self esteem and the knowledge that I'm not an awful person. So it doesn't matter what others expectations of me are. I'm not duty bound to meet those expectations or to psychically know what those expectations are. I can be me, because I know I'm ok. If someone asks something of me, I can choose yes or no and I can take time to think about it first if I want.

If I don't meet their expectations of a friend, that's ok, it just means we're incompatible, not that there's something wrong me me or I'm doing something wrong. Now if nobody liked me, fair enough, I'd go take a look in the mirror! 😆 But otherwise, it's not me. It's just incompatibility. IME most people want to do whatever they want to do and they want someone to do it with them. So you have to find the people who like doing the same things you like doing. There's someone for everyone.

Not making light of this, but as an extreme example - even paedos are friends with other paedos. Now whatever you're into, it's never going to be as bad as that. If even they can find friends, so can you.

If you don't know what you like doing you have to try things and find out. If you're poor or disabled, think what can you do, not what you can't and getting despondent. Eg. There's a cloud appreciation society. Clouds are free and looking at them only requires sight, the energy to open your eyes and a door or window. There's literally groups, classes, memberships, social media etc for everything.

When I've felt lost in the past, I've sometimes typed bullshit into Google like "I don't know what to do" and it'll bring up tons of random articles from how to improve your mental health if you're feeling low, to a wiki-how on how to rebuild your life after natural disasters and careers guidance agencies opening times etc. It doesn't matter what you pick, just do something, that's how you learn about yourself. Even if all you learn initially is a pile of stuff you hate doing, at least you know what to avoid in future!

I go on YouTube and watch "days in my life" videos to remind me that nobody has an exciting life, not even influencers. They're going to the poundstore, to a cafe with friends, trying a new shampoo etc and their day is so empty they've got time to video it and post it online. I find it's very grounding.

Friendships don't have to last either, so don't try to cling onto them. They either work or they don't, like romance, with no huge effort required. That's my take on it. A friend told me once: people come into your life for a season, a reason or a lifetime. It doesn't matter which. They're all valuable friendships. 💡 moment day for me, that was.

You boost self esteem by achieving stuff and celebrating it. From women's aid freedom program:

That’s the thing, that list contains a lot of reflection against others. When there are no others it’s very difficult to answer many of them. I am very clearly not a people person going by how I’m perceived. I think that my ND has had more of a disabling effect on me than I’ve thought. I’ve masked very hard but I’m loosing the ability to as I age because I’m tired and overwhelmed. Raising young kids is hard. People tell me that I look well put together, like I’ve got it handled when the truth is I really don’t. I had some good friends in college and lost them all during my marriage. Too many years passed to get back in, I did reach out but they all moved on together. I have a lot of regret over this.

I think I have a lot to offer but Im not conventional. I don’t drink, watch tv (only films), don’t care about celebrities, money etc. I love wild camping. I’ve laughed but I’d live in a commune in the woods. I would like to move to a small village.

Sorry I was being an idiot. I have so much to be thankful for that many others don’t and I should focus on what I have. A house, 2 kids and a partner (even tho he has the emotional intelligence of a carrot lol) Sometimes I forget about the seriousness of the situation we have come through and this will have repercussions. Comparison is the thief of joy.

Ha, snap. I think I would be happier in a relationship but I don't know how to do one that wouldn't be a shit show.

Strawberry I wondered if you'd see it that way when I posted it. You're maybe so low you can't see clearly. Can you get a session or two with a counsellor? You could do with someone to help you think through those questions and use previous positive people/situations you've known as references for the answers, if you can't see how to answer them yourself right now. It would help you see you've more to offer than you think and that would be money well spent, if you could afford it.

Failing that, see if your local woman's aid or MH charity is running any confidence building/self esteem courses. I can't imagine this applies to you but I'll throw it out there for other readers it might help - charities helping ex-addicts sometimes run similar courses too.

Wild camping, liking films but not TV, disliking drinking and having desire to live in a small village sounds like a totally ordinary person to me. Slightly niche in that TV and drinking is probably the UK's first two most popular pastimes (goodness knows why, I also find that sort of thing totally mind numbing), but far from being "out there". There must be loads of people like you around.

Have you got a touring caravan? I'm thinking because of the DC that's maybe easier than a tent. And campsites aren't exactly wild camping I know, but it's closer to it than a fortnight on a beach in Spain for example, so you'd meet similar kinds of people to yourself. You don't have to stay in one place either, you could move about doing a couple of nights here and there for a week or two, which might make it seem more similar to wild camping? I believe the caravan club is a bit of a community and you'd end up meeting the same people over and over, more so than with other types of holiday, so a chance for friendship to grow. You could camp near the small villages and enjoy them that way, which is better than nothing if you can't live there at the moment. Go alone with DC if DP isn't into camping.

Also I know you mentioned marriage but honestly think twice about tying yourself to a man who puts his FOO before you. You've only just seen the light really regarding his family. Give yourself a few years to see if you get the ick first. Much easier to leave, should it come to that, if you're not having to get divorced.

Do you mean that you think someone had to be there to understand? Or do you mean that all of us who had shit upbringings would understand?

Please don't feel ashamed crazysnake you were a child in godawful circumstances. You've told me not to be ashamed about my past behaviour so give yourself the same compassion.

I think she means you need to have the awful upbringing, but you also need to have faced the truth of it and done some work on understanding what it means and where you've been left with deficits as a result. So, for example, at 19, I had faced hard truths about my father, but was still desperately protective of my mother, and not at that time able to deal with what she's really like. I also wasn't able to deal with myself.

It takes two to tango. I don’t in anyway mean that in a victim blaming way because I was the women in an abusive relationship. But I was unhealthy also. If I had stayed then I would have been responsible for the way my child viewed me. She may not be happy that I left and she does voice this but she also says she understands because daddy shouts a lot. I bet she would be like you when she was older if I had stayed and blamed me and she would be right. Or she would be too damaged to even get as far as you. They say that abusive men are not discriminate but they absolutely do go for vulnerable and perhaps not healthy partners, or should I say we stay when we should not.

I give people a chance but I'm naturally suspicious of new people now because I always wonder have they seen something in me that makes them think I might be a pushover? So I'm always a little bit on guard in case they're a bad person. I used to just trust people and assume they were good, even when they displayed clear signs they weren't, I couldn't see those signs.

100% agree with all of this.

It's the one thing we are not allowed to talk about, isn't it, why some women are vulnerable to abusive men and other women can see them coming a mile off. If you even try you just get told that the woman isn't to blame for anything and bears no responsibility for anything, including her children. Not only is that not true, it infantilises adult women by treating them like children. She bounced from that marriage to an alcoholic. Make of that what you will.

But you left that relationship. You did it and you did it when your daughter was young. Even though things are hard now, you did it, and you deserve a medal for that.

My mother was an active participant in that marriage. I actually had a really weird dream about it last night. It's been happening a lot lately. (I really need to start journaling again). In the dream, I basically relived the first time I saw her with a black eye, and heard myself saying you are choosing him over me, you are putting him first, your relationship with him is more valuable and important than your relationship with me, even though he's hateful and I am trying so hard to be good enough. I was never good enough to make her choose me. We weren't a family, in that house it was them and me as the third wheel.

Yes that's what I mean. @Dogaredabomb

Is it that she chose him over you?? I’m not sure really about that although it does feel like that. I was just living the only life I knew how to. I was used to this kind of love, how do we know any different. I wanted/needed his love so badly, my very existence depended on bending and shaping myself to be someone he would love. Having a child which I’m ashamed of so that he would stop abusing me, perhaps this would be the reason he’d stop. I hung out 9 years before giving in and worn down I had a child. But he didn’t stop.
I don’t mean to be rude but perhaps your mum was just much more mentally damaged than I was. I was still inside just enough.

As a child tho @Crazysnakes thats of no consolation. We didn’t know our parents are mentally unstable. We painted a world where we were. My mum definitely has issues. Not narcissistic but BPD feeling, she has got so much better as she has aged. She painted a world of keep quiet, don’t rock, don’t have anything wrong, keep control control control. I exploded internally all the time. Like a swan on the outside but paddling like shit underneath. Tbh that’s how I describe myself now!

He was the main focus, I suppose. He sucked up all the energy, the time, the attention. Everything was about him, his wants, his needs. It wasn't a family where there were two parents working as a team, focussing on the children. And it's not like he was a catch. He didn't have any money, he was unattractive, he had awful family and friends.

The best way I can describe it is this:

She was like a pigeon, tapping at a button (him) and hoping for a reward, blind to the fact that most of the time she got shit, and when she did get a reward, she would be made to give it back, or it would be broken, or it would turn out to be shit in disguise, and I would say look, it's shit, and she would make excuses for him.

Meanwhile I was in the corner, holding out my button which always dispensed rewards, and she wasn't that interested in it. I know it sounds stupid, but I think what the child me really felt was that it was a toss up between my happiness or his, and she chose to prioritise his happiness over mine, even though he treated her badly and I tried to be the child she wanted so that she would like me.

I wanted her to care about me enough to end the marriage because I was so miserable, but nothing I tried worked.

And then when she did leave the marriage, all her attention went on the new husband, and she prioritised him over everything else. It's just what she does, I suppose.

It sounds very sad. This is where the two to tango comes into it. Yes she had all her focus on him but really she had all her focus on herself, as did I for many years. I managed him in order to get a reward for me. Your mum was looking in all the wrong directions, blinkered. I suppose looking for a different kind of love then you offered. She was addicted to the love from a narc, it’s a special reward, one well earned or so you think. Your love to someone with disordered thinking like your mum could well have not registered as love. Love comes with pain for someone who’s suffered this as a child. I think it becomes like an addiction and no one matters more to an addict then what they need. You could throw all the amazing non alcoholic cocktails with all the pretty umbrellas to an alcoholic but they’d still drink the cheap rank stuff.

It’s quite sad really now I think about it that as children we aren’t in control over who is at the other end of the kind of love we have to offer. As adults tho we do have control over this. I never knew this. It’s like I had my husband and I had no control over this. This is the way I love and that was the way he wanted love and they were totally incompatible. He wanted a really intense love and I could only give a quiet love. It really is about finding people who are compatible with the ways we love and want love. I know his gf is much more compatible, big shows of affection and big arguments. I’m much more of a slow steady loving person.