Seven years and he doesn't want to marry me

[NottingChill]

My DP and I have our seven year anniversary upcoming, and I am just taking stock of things and I want to ask if this would bother you.

There are lots of great things about our relationship.

1. Very affectionate, always smooching still
2. He's very caring and nurturing
3. He is incredibly supportive and no matter what I want to do he always backs me and encourages me
4. He absolutely always has my back and is as reliable as clockwork
5. Great sex (still!)
6. He puts me first even though I don't ask
7. When we fight, which is rare, we are both quick to apologise
8. I always have his time and attention and vice versa
9. He doesn't seem to recognise any of my flaws or finds them cute (I feel the same about his)
10. He thinks I am much better looking than I actually am!
11. He is always consistent, always reliable, always there
12. He is really thoughtful - does nice things for me all the time, like pumps up my tyres or makes me snacks if I am working
13. He gives me space when I need it without any hassle (first man I ever met who does this one!)
14. He is incredibly kind and helpful to my adult child
15. He'd give me the shirt off his back if I needed it
16. He always makes an effort, with everything
17. We laugh, a lot and are playful most days at home
18. If something is ever difficult, he always wants to solve it as a team
19. The relationship feels like a safe home.

Etc. It is a good relationship and I feel very lucky and he says all the time that he also does. But, while he offers all the day to day commitments, he avoids the life milestone kind of commitments which most people seem to take in their stride.

He was very slow to share intimate details of himself with me when we first met, and very slow to say "I love you" (now he says it many times a day) but he was certainly very hard to initially get close to.

When the time came to "move in" together, as in, we had discussed it and planned it, when the time actually came, he made an absolute nightmare of it to the point that I got pissed off and went and got my own house.

Then once I had got my own house, he apologised, bought a place on his own and now we have two houses. Yes, this sounds crazy but with hindsight this was his conflict avoidant way of essentially saying he wasn't ready to live together - which is a bit off after five years together, no?

Anyway, years on from that, we now live together, although we still have two houses. One is in the city centre and one by the sea so we split our time. He doesn't want to be apart, ever so it isn't that he doesn't want to be with me but the short version is that with these big milestones, he is so averse to them that he will basically take what should be an easy and happy experience (like moving in together) and turn it into such a nightmare that you just give up.

In the end we did do all the things I wanted, both houses feel like ours, we did the painting and decorating together, our adult kids both stay in both places, it feels like we live together but it was very important to him on some level that we both maintained some level of autonomy even if only on paper.

Similarly, we discussed marriage during a conversation where he said I was the love of his life and he was absolutely sure he wanted to be with me forever and marry me etc. but since then whenever I bring it up he changes the subject, tries to make a joke or if pushed quite hard, admits he is afraid of getting married again.

He has been divorced for 17 years.

So while his first marriage was crap, I feel like it's a bit odd that it would stop him getting married now. I am not sure why it bothers me but part of it is security, not financially as I am in his will and I have the same assets he does anyway but more than if we were sick or something that we would just not be fully legally entwined. Another might sound a bit daft but I am quite religious and I am a bit worried about dying without being married to him, it feels like an important thing to me and I would be sad if I died unmarried.

I just want to know if you think I am being silly. It is clear to me after all these years that I am with someone who really loves me who makes me very happy (and he is far more of a husband to me than most actual husbands I know), but it also makes me a bit sad that his need for some background autonomy or his past fears mean that I miss out on some things that feel like they're important to me.

Can people just give me some feedback on if they think this matters or not?

I mean, for me, it sounds like a great relationship and sure, he has some degree of anxiety about commitment/marriage but apart from the performative things, from what you wrote, he seems to be stepping up in every area where it counts.

You're not financially dependent, your kids are adults so you're not going to be financially disadvantaged by taking time out for pregnancy etc, it actually sounds very sensible not to get married.

But if it's important to you, then probably you need to have some gentle but serious conversations over time to explore his reluctance and what exactly he is afraid of, and explore what possibilities would work for you as well.

It's probably also worth interrogating your own feelings - why do you feel that marriage is important to you, given all the positives about him you've listed? Because his fear/desire not to get married is just as valid a feeling as your desire to do so...

On the practical side you could do LPAs for health and welfare and/or finances to cover the sickness aspect you mention - there are other ways than marriage to achieve the kinds of "legal entwining" that you mentioned.

You memtion adult child, so no, it wouldn't bother me at all.

You’ve both got adult children? Simpler to stay unmarried due to that perhaps? In terms of inheritance.

I don't think you're being silly. I think you have a fantastic relationship but you're at different stages. You're ready for the marriage commitment but DP isn't. I know a couple who were happily together for 15 years before he (finally) asked her to marry him! I think I'd employ some reverse psychology: stop mentioning getting married. This will create a vacuum. He'll be asking himself why, it'll give him something to think about and it lets him take the lead. Worth a try!

I have had proper conversations with him about it. He says he does want to marry me, but he just feels a panic at the thought of it because he had such a bad divorce.

He says he knows he's being completely unreasonable and he says he knows it's important to me. He hasn't said outright he doesn't want to get married, but if every time we talk about it he makes a joke or needs the toilet then I get the hint!

I am not sure why this is important to me, aside from the reasons I have given. Maybe I am being completely stupid, but it feels sacred in some sense to me. I am from a Lebanese family and for the past 20 years my gran has been asking when I am getting married. It's religiously, culturally and spiritually important to me.

I couldn't give a toss about a wedding, I am more than happy to get married just us with our kids there and no fuss of any sort, but I love him and I would like him to be my husband.

He has maybe found it hard to open up after so long being married and reluctant to marry again after a bad marriage prior. Have you been married before or would this be your first time?

I have been with my partner nearly 5 years and neither of us want to live together yet. Nothing to do with commitment, we just like our own space. It may be the same for your partner.

have you spoke about selling one of the houses?

I don’t blame him not wanting to marry again/ being reluctant. He had a long presumably miserable marriage..

OP is he older than you by quite a bit?

His bad divorce is probably why he wants to hang on to his own property incase things go wrong again.

I think you're right to be concerned about the health/serious illness aspect. I've seen for myself highly distressed long term partners stood outside a hospital intensive care unit not being allowed in because they're not next of kin. The actual NOK (parent) was elderly, demented and in a care home several hundred miles away. What a terrible situation to find yourself in. Health &Welfare POA might work, but my own experience of that was I had to wait for the solicitor to post the actual document to me which took a few days. Some friends of mine got married after 20 plus years living together to be absolutely sure if it came to it, there wouldn't be a problem on that front. I had to sign a consent for my (now deceased) DH because he was so ill he didn't have the capacity to sign it himself. As his wife and NOK I was able to do that. So I think you might need to discuss what would happen in those scenarios with him and how you can work round that if you're not married.

It just depends how important marriage is to you For me I would be happy to wait longer, more than 7 years, but some women would want to be engaged after 2. There’s also a possibility that while loving you he may not actually want to get married again and that’s fine.

but if marriage is ultra important to you then he may not be the man for you.

although he’s absolutely not being unreasonable, if he’s not ready to marry yet he’s not ready.

an unmarried person can be listed as someone’s next of kin nowadays. He needs to put it in his will though.

I actually hardly ever mention it actually.It came up tonight though because I am away at the seaside house without him as we have some contractors in for a few days.

Anyway, I have been a bit stressed and he has just been so lovely and done so many things to help. I just felt so lucky to have him. And we were chatting a lot about plans for our upcoming anniversary so we had a cute chat about all our funny memories.

I was hot yesterday and moaning about it as the house is a bit of a greenhouse, and then there was an Amazon guy at the door this afternoon with a box of my favourite drinks and a some kind of super-fan to keep me cool - and I just thought "God I love this man" and it slipped out during conversion tonight that I would really like to marry him, and he just replied with an emoticon.

Ouch!😂

You need to stop pressing it on him, even jokingly. He’s made it pretty clear he isn’t ready just yet. It doesn’t mean he won’t be in the future.

Df and Dm are divorced. Df recently married, but as common law husband and wife. Not exactly sure of difference but it seemed like less of a big deal. Been with partner 15+ years.

I have never been married, no.

He doesn't want space, he always wants us to be together every day, it is more about keeping some autonomy on paper.

We wouldn't sell either house as we slightly fell in love with having a city flat and a weekend pad away from the noise. We joke that it's like having an Airbnb!

His marriage was 10 years and quite miserable yes, but mostly I think he was traumatised by the losses of things - access to his child, his home and so on.

We are actually the same age, he was married when he was a teenager :)

These scenarios deeply terrify me to be honest.

Just to say he can still list you as NOK legally even if you’re not married. He would need to change his will. If he got married as a teenager and has been married 17 years with a bad divorce I would cut him some slack. 7 years isn’t long for him.

when you say he spends every minute with you, do either of you ever get any time to yourself/ with friends?

He has listed me as his next of kin, and in his will and on his work forms as his beneficiary as he has some kind of life insurance thing I wasn't really paying attention to. I am just worried about him being ill or me being ill or anything like that and us not being able to be together or make decisions.

If you are listed as next of kin and he makes it clear you’re the one who has to make decisions rather than his other NOK this would be possible

We both have very demanding jobs, and we both travel once a month or so for work.

He also has lots of hobbies that don't involve me, he's very sporty and belongs to various clubs and he goes for the odd drink with a friend but is generally back by 10pm :) So probably once a week he is out of an evening.

I am less sociable than he is, but I am free to see my friends whenever I want to or go wherever I like. He absolutely never guilt trips me about anything I want to do.

So we have lives of our own do have a lot of space, but my point is that he never wants to be apart and it's obvious he misses me a lot if we are apart (he finds that much harder than I do!) so the aversion isn't about him needing space or time away from me.

We just generally like each other. We have togetherness, and freedom to do whatever we like but we just see easily eye to eye on day-to-day life and I can't recall a time I felt either smothered or neglected.

It sounds like things are great apart from the fact you want to marry soon whereas marriage might not be on his agenda for years, if at all Whether it works out is dependant on how important marriage is to you, could you sacrifice it because you love him? Or is it something you feel like you really want to do and him not wanting to would cause you to rethink things?

Legally wise it’s great you each own a property. Do you share a bank account or keep finances separate?

Not getting married probably wouldn't bother me in a situation like yours (financially independent, not planning to have children together) but just from your description it feels like there's a lack of open and honest communication on certain specific topics. if so, that would be a big issue for me. The situation with the house seems pretty ridiculous and you were significantly impacted by his lack of willingness or ability to clearly assess the situation and make a mutually satisfactory plan together.

The marriage question feels similar to me; I would hate the idea that he knew how important it was to me and wouldn't immediately tell me he's decided against it if he has. Thinking he had made up his mind and wouldn't tell me would change my feelings about him - maybe not enough to break up, but it would make me less happy and less at ease in the relationship.

I think you need to sit him down and be open about it. He sounds a bit clingy in some aspects and may be scared of losing you hence not saying much about marriage. You need to honestly ask him if he doesn’t want to get married again and he needs to give you a truthful answer.

until then I would stop proposing even jokingly

So he has kids too? I can tell you, if I had kids of any age, I wouldn't be getting married again myself. I'd want to make sure my assets are protected to be inherited by my children. If I died before you, you would inherit if we're married, then it could all go to your child with mine missing out.

You can draw up legal agreements around this sort of thing (not very romantic but hey). I still never intend to ever marry again for that reason, legal agreements or not.

You have adult children. For me, I don’t think marriage makes sense in that scenario. It only makes things like inheritance complicated.

Marriage is incredibly important to protect women if they are going to go through pregnancy. It is also important for whichever spouse’s career takes the biggest hit from childrearing, most often the mother, but there are exceptions. If you aren’t having children, there isn’t an inherent need for marriage.

What you describe seems like the ideal second phase relationship.

Yes if he has children and you guys aren’t planning on trying for kids then there’s not really any need to get married