Seven years and he doesn't want to marry me

[NottingChill]

My DP and I have our seven year anniversary upcoming, and I am just taking stock of things and I want to ask if this would bother you.

There are lots of great things about our relationship.

1. Very affectionate, always smooching still
2. He's very caring and nurturing
3. He is incredibly supportive and no matter what I want to do he always backs me and encourages me
4. He absolutely always has my back and is as reliable as clockwork
5. Great sex (still!)
6. He puts me first even though I don't ask
7. When we fight, which is rare, we are both quick to apologise
8. I always have his time and attention and vice versa
9. He doesn't seem to recognise any of my flaws or finds them cute (I feel the same about his)
10. He thinks I am much better looking than I actually am!
11. He is always consistent, always reliable, always there
12. He is really thoughtful - does nice things for me all the time, like pumps up my tyres or makes me snacks if I am working
13. He gives me space when I need it without any hassle (first man I ever met who does this one!)
14. He is incredibly kind and helpful to my adult child
15. He'd give me the shirt off his back if I needed it
16. He always makes an effort, with everything
17. We laugh, a lot and are playful most days at home
18. If something is ever difficult, he always wants to solve it as a team
19. The relationship feels like a safe home.

Etc. It is a good relationship and I feel very lucky and he says all the time that he also does. But, while he offers all the day to day commitments, he avoids the life milestone kind of commitments which most people seem to take in their stride.

He was very slow to share intimate details of himself with me when we first met, and very slow to say "I love you" (now he says it many times a day) but he was certainly very hard to initially get close to.

When the time came to "move in" together, as in, we had discussed it and planned it, when the time actually came, he made an absolute nightmare of it to the point that I got pissed off and went and got my own house.

Then once I had got my own house, he apologised, bought a place on his own and now we have two houses. Yes, this sounds crazy but with hindsight this was his conflict avoidant way of essentially saying he wasn't ready to live together - which is a bit off after five years together, no?

Anyway, years on from that, we now live together, although we still have two houses. One is in the city centre and one by the sea so we split our time. He doesn't want to be apart, ever so it isn't that he doesn't want to be with me but the short version is that with these big milestones, he is so averse to them that he will basically take what should be an easy and happy experience (like moving in together) and turn it into such a nightmare that you just give up.

In the end we did do all the things I wanted, both houses feel like ours, we did the painting and decorating together, our adult kids both stay in both places, it feels like we live together but it was very important to him on some level that we both maintained some level of autonomy even if only on paper.

Similarly, we discussed marriage during a conversation where he said I was the love of his life and he was absolutely sure he wanted to be with me forever and marry me etc. but since then whenever I bring it up he changes the subject, tries to make a joke or if pushed quite hard, admits he is afraid of getting married again.

He has been divorced for 17 years.

So while his first marriage was crap, I feel like it's a bit odd that it would stop him getting married now. I am not sure why it bothers me but part of it is security, not financially as I am in his will and I have the same assets he does anyway but more than if we were sick or something that we would just not be fully legally entwined. Another might sound a bit daft but I am quite religious and I am a bit worried about dying without being married to him, it feels like an important thing to me and I would be sad if I died unmarried.

I just want to know if you think I am being silly. It is clear to me after all these years that I am with someone who really loves me who makes me very happy (and he is far more of a husband to me than most actual husbands I know), but it also makes me a bit sad that his need for some background autonomy or his past fears mean that I miss out on some things that feel like they're important to me.

Can people just give me some feedback on if they think this matters or not?

If you are worried about what might happen if either of you are ill, you could each make a Lasting Power of Attorney, which could kick in if you were not capable of making your own decisions. I have one making my two adult children and my DP, who I have been with for over thirty years, as attorneys. They can make decisions separately or together, depending on the circumstances. They all respect each other and I trust them to act in my best interests. I do not see the point of marrying when you are both adults, not planning to have children together. Ignore your Grandmother!

I hate when people say anniversary when that was always a years marriage, so your relationship isn't going where you might want it so either talk about it or stay as you are

Sounds completely idyllically wonderful.
Like the perfect 90's rom com out outcome.
You could have like a handfasting ceremony/ some other type of non legal ceremony but then see how that feels?

You would be off your rocker to marry this lovely man. Save your house for your own kids and he saves his for his! No inheritance problems, no hassles. I can see why he’s digging his heels in tbh.

Marriage is good for younger people staring out who want to buy a house together and start a family but for people such as yourselves there is no particular benefit.

Your relationship sounds fab and the 2 houses bit is amazing. I’m jealous. 🤣

I would let it go, the more you chase it the more he will feel like running. I am like him due to past experiences, it sounds like he's giving you everything he can and it's a lot.... you are in danger of spoiling that. I think you need to respect the fact that something that would be nice for you would put him in a place he doesn't feel safe and make him very uncomfortable, there should be some kind of compromise option. If my dream man pushed me to marry him I would like him a lot less and feel a lot less safe and respected in the relationship. If you can sacrifice and truly let the idea of marriage go I wouldn't be surprised if he suggests it at some point. You need to know when you've got it good.

It would bother me in my 20s and 30s, pre kids and pre house. But you are at a different stage of life. I have 2 children and too old to have more. If I am to divorce now and have my own home, I don’t know if I want to get married. I think I will be happy with the relationship you got. It is less complicated money wise to not get married.

I’m on his side. He is being quite logical and you more emotional. Nothing wrong with that and if you’re religious and it would please your family I can see why you would seek marriage.

How old are you both? You could be anywhere from 38 to 80! The relationship and challenges change through life stages.

You have gone straight in to details of your relationship and given very little detail of the practical stuff. Children, mortgages, financial planning. If he has been through a traumatic divorce he will be thinking of the practical stuff and ALL relationships face the risk of ending. Women are often too romantic and not practical enough.

So you inherit over his kids? Or is that just his work life insurance he’s leaving you not them?
Whose house is worth more? If it’s his, maybe that’s your answer for why he won’t marry you.

I totally agree with him. You have the perfect situation as it is. You have a great relationship but your children will inherit your house and his will inherit his. All of my older friends who had kids did not get married in their second relationship for this reason. You are looking at it from a romantic point of view and he is looking at it from a practical point of view. Weddings are romantic but marriage is a practical contract that doesn’t suit all situations.

I won’t get married…. It gets messy with adult kids and wills later.

you should consider a wedding or cultural wedding in Lebanese sense. If your Muslim you can have an Islamic wedding which currently in the UK is not recognised in the UK legal system

The concerns you’ve listed are legitimate and might be possible to solve without legal marriage. His fear of marriage is understandable if he’s had a bad experience before. Since you have adult children I’m guessing you’re not planning children together? So the legal sharing of financial and caring responsibility for the family isn’t such a concern.

Could you try approaching the conversation as looking for some way to address your specific worries about NOK issues, and wanting to do something that honours your relationship within your religious tradition? Like you could get a blessing from a priest without anything legally binding. Idk what’s possible re NOK, but discussing lasting power of attorney and when / whether you might want to set that up could be one option. Or just talk to both your children, who presumably are legally next of kin, and make it clear you expect partner to be included in big decisions etc if there’s ever ambiguity.

In your situation I wouldn’t make marriage a deal breaker but I would be a bit sad not to have it. You can ask him to acknowledge and support that sadness. And if it is a deal breaker for you that’s not wrong, by the way.

Honestly OP he sounds wonderful. I know you want marriage and that's completely valid, but you both obviously care for eachother, you're happy and you have independence.
As PPs have said why not discuss updating wills to be eachothers next of kin while you're both fit and healthy so that if God forbid something did happen you're covered and you can both support and help eachother if it did come to that?

He sounds like a good guy who struggles to be honest about his feelings.

It does seem that he would like to be married to you with limited financial entanglements, so as to make sure his kids are OK. I think that’s fair enough, but it does seem to me that it is relatively easy to sort. I think this is a situation where a pre-nup, or pre-nup plus wills would be a good solution. Can you (both) of you have a discussion about what you want to happen if one or the other dies.
I am guessing the two properties you currently have are owned one each. As an example does each have possessions in the other’s house that you would want to go to your own child, what happens on the first death? And I mean this from small things to large (maybe a corkscrew that was a gift to him, maybe the valuable painting in the sitting room, maybe half the books)
What is the relationship with the children like, are they likely to be difficult whilst grieving?

What about if you got a shock and had to divorce him? What then with the possessions?

What about if you both just started wearing wedding rings, given as gifts?

I think it’s significant that you’ve not been married before, as it’s something you want to have done in your life and he’d be your first. For him, it’s something he’s done that didn’t work out and it’s understandable that it has much less meaning for him and actually feels like a negative and scary thing. Neither of you is in the wrong on this. You’re just coming from different places.

If you were at a different stage and going to have kids together I’d say marriage was a non-negotiable, but in your situation the set-up sounds great tbh and makes a great deal of sense inheritance wise, and yes, safety net wise if it does go wrong. He’s even got all the paperwork sorted so you are NoK so your fears around involvement in decisions around illness etc are unfounded. On balance, I think his angle is understandable and as it’s working well, why change it to something that he knows can end badly. And begin badly as you know how he reacts to these milestones. As with the living together, he may come around of his own accord over time, but until then there’s not a lot you can do beyond ultimatums which seem extreme given how good it all is.

As a PP says, it’s the ideal in many ways, and what your nan wants shouldn’t really come into it. What you want… well, you’ve got a better relationship than many married couples so that isn’t the magic factor. I’d enjoy what you have and see where it goes. Seven years isn’t so very long in a lifetime. Double that and he might surprise you.

I’m happy for you, that you’ve both found and built something so good together.
Don’t spoil it now! Really, what you’ve got is special and actually quite rare. The only flies in the ointment are your unhappiness about not being married, and his aversion to it. You can’t make him want to marry but maybe you can relax about not being married.

Which emoticon?

Blimey- what you've got sounds like heaven. A lovely life with a great man who loves you and makes you happy.

This the impact on inheritance and the houses with the adult children would make me not want to marry either.

Marriage is vital when starting out as a young couple thinking about having children because of the huge benefits it brings

it is a negative for later life couples because of the huge benefits it brings

You have a child. If you got married and he died first, they could easily be disinherited.

Just realised I'm echoing the pp

A kiss face!

Is there a way of stating both sets of children will inherit?

I’m getting married next year, we share two young daughters and I have a 10 year old son from a previous relationship, would my son be at risk if I died first? Hopefully talking many decades from now but just wondering

That's a nice response. It's not the response you want but you know you're not going to get that or have the debate by text so what else can he say? It's better than 'i love you but please stop mentioning marriage when you know i'm not and may never be ready because it was so horrible last time and i don't want anything to change how good we are together'. Or the fingers in ears emoji!

In a nutshell I would say he wants a get out clause. Maybe it's because his first marriage was a disaster.