Seven years and he doesn't want to marry me

[NottingChill]

My DP and I have our seven year anniversary upcoming, and I am just taking stock of things and I want to ask if this would bother you.

There are lots of great things about our relationship.

1. Very affectionate, always smooching still
2. He's very caring and nurturing
3. He is incredibly supportive and no matter what I want to do he always backs me and encourages me
4. He absolutely always has my back and is as reliable as clockwork
5. Great sex (still!)
6. He puts me first even though I don't ask
7. When we fight, which is rare, we are both quick to apologise
8. I always have his time and attention and vice versa
9. He doesn't seem to recognise any of my flaws or finds them cute (I feel the same about his)
10. He thinks I am much better looking than I actually am!
11. He is always consistent, always reliable, always there
12. He is really thoughtful - does nice things for me all the time, like pumps up my tyres or makes me snacks if I am working
13. He gives me space when I need it without any hassle (first man I ever met who does this one!)
14. He is incredibly kind and helpful to my adult child
15. He'd give me the shirt off his back if I needed it
16. He always makes an effort, with everything
17. We laugh, a lot and are playful most days at home
18. If something is ever difficult, he always wants to solve it as a team
19. The relationship feels like a safe home.

Etc. It is a good relationship and I feel very lucky and he says all the time that he also does. But, while he offers all the day to day commitments, he avoids the life milestone kind of commitments which most people seem to take in their stride.

He was very slow to share intimate details of himself with me when we first met, and very slow to say "I love you" (now he says it many times a day) but he was certainly very hard to initially get close to.

When the time came to "move in" together, as in, we had discussed it and planned it, when the time actually came, he made an absolute nightmare of it to the point that I got pissed off and went and got my own house.

Then once I had got my own house, he apologised, bought a place on his own and now we have two houses. Yes, this sounds crazy but with hindsight this was his conflict avoidant way of essentially saying he wasn't ready to live together - which is a bit off after five years together, no?

Anyway, years on from that, we now live together, although we still have two houses. One is in the city centre and one by the sea so we split our time. He doesn't want to be apart, ever so it isn't that he doesn't want to be with me but the short version is that with these big milestones, he is so averse to them that he will basically take what should be an easy and happy experience (like moving in together) and turn it into such a nightmare that you just give up.

In the end we did do all the things I wanted, both houses feel like ours, we did the painting and decorating together, our adult kids both stay in both places, it feels like we live together but it was very important to him on some level that we both maintained some level of autonomy even if only on paper.

Similarly, we discussed marriage during a conversation where he said I was the love of his life and he was absolutely sure he wanted to be with me forever and marry me etc. but since then whenever I bring it up he changes the subject, tries to make a joke or if pushed quite hard, admits he is afraid of getting married again.

He has been divorced for 17 years.

So while his first marriage was crap, I feel like it's a bit odd that it would stop him getting married now. I am not sure why it bothers me but part of it is security, not financially as I am in his will and I have the same assets he does anyway but more than if we were sick or something that we would just not be fully legally entwined. Another might sound a bit daft but I am quite religious and I am a bit worried about dying without being married to him, it feels like an important thing to me and I would be sad if I died unmarried.

I just want to know if you think I am being silly. It is clear to me after all these years that I am with someone who really loves me who makes me very happy (and he is far more of a husband to me than most actual husbands I know), but it also makes me a bit sad that his need for some background autonomy or his past fears mean that I miss out on some things that feel like they're important to me.

Can people just give me some feedback on if they think this matters or not?

Sure, your DH would inherit, could remarry and cut your DS out of everything. You need to see a solicitor and set up your will so that your DS is provided for. Make it cast-iron. Don't trust to your DH doing the right thing if/when you go.

Honestly, I'm with the people who think that what you have sounds ideal for your stage of life. A property each, financial independence, freedom to be together or apart, and most importantly love, happiness, and mutual support. Things would be very different if you were younger and intended to have DC together - then marriage would be worth an ultimatum - but given that you both have adult DC, it's simpler in many ways if you aren't married.

Ultimately this is your decision. You need to assume that he will not ever feel ready to legally marry you. On that basis, are you happy to stay in the relationship? If so, great - you stay together, you let expectations go, and if his feelings do shift, bonus, but you can't be hinting or expecting or bringing it up repeatedly. If you can't be in this relationship unless it's moving towards marriage, then you know what you have to do. But I would not lightly throw what you have away, especially when marriage would be purely a sentimental rather than a practical thing in your situation. You know how he feels, and he knows how you feel. It's not fair of you to try and pressure him into changing his mind.

Just make a will, after the marriage. As long as you are in England or Wales, a legal will properly witnessed dictates how your assets will be distributed.

A legal marriage renders previous wills invalid, as it assumed that the spouse has spousal rights. Your will would override this assumption.

It needn't be because he wants to get out, as he can do that even if married. More that divorces can be traumatic and not something people want to do twice. Often people talk about a failed marriage and take that feeling of failure to heart. If OP and he never get married, they can't risk failing in that way. Every day they're together now is a success and something they're choosing to do. By marrying, he might feel the clock is ticking towards that risk of failure again. OP would only feel happiness if he proposed, like they're taking things to the next level. He would feel dread/doom and need to protect himself, like he did by buying his own house rather than going all in on a shared property. There is no such compromise with the marriage so he'd just get the dread and what benefit? Would he ever feel the happiness, security and recognition OP seeks? Having had that before and it didn't last. Obviously some second marriages (after a divorce) do last, but many don't so it's often a matter of hope over experience.

Too many people romanticise marriage. Marriage used to be a religious and legal contract and is now (alongside civil partnerships) a legal contract.

that annuls quite a lot of stuff before it. Have a will - getting married nope no longer valid

do you want to have the wedding?

It sounds ideal.
Independence, company, partnership, friendship, your own space, happily blended family, own property each ...
Sounds like he was so damaged by his divorce he doesn't want to repeat the steps that led there.
I'd say let it go and enjoy what you have.

Seven years isn’t that long, OP. I would say to your Partner, ‘ I love you, I will always love you, and if ever you want to marry me, I will be here’. Then I would drop it.

You may well find that as you both get older and your lives change, he will also appreciate the added emotional security that marriage brings ( and the IHT benefits, though how long that will last under the current government, who knows?).

I speak as someone who was proposed to after much much longer living together, also sharing two houses. People change, not always at the same rate.

🕊

That sounds amazing amazing relationship and even ending up with two houses sounds like it's been a positive.

Have you talked about what any wedding would be like, you may need to agree what this would be like as a starting point.

I am divorced with adult children and there is absolutely no way I would marry again. I wouldn't want to risk my childrens inheritance for any man and I just don't see the point in it for me personally either. The religious point is a bit redundant as you have already been living in sin for 7 years.

What you have now works very well and I think the only thing that could ruin it is if you continue to put pressure on him to get married. He knows your standpoint, if he wants to get married he will propose eventually. If that is a dealbreaker for you, then you should probably leave him, but I think you'd be mad to.

Thanks everyone.

People are asking for more details about the financial picture, but that has changed significantly over the last five years so the tables have turned a little...

He has an important job he's been in for years on end, lots of security, massive pensions, savings in the bank and so on.

I, by contrast, was a single parent struggling for most of the my child's younger years to make ends meet - I had well paid career but everything was so expensive on one income, so there was never much left for savings or pension and I was always self employed so didn't get perks.

So I never had opportunity for any of that security stuff and raising my child alone was genuinely hard as my family didn't have anything either and my child's Dad never gave me a single penny.

Moving in together, when we agreed to do this, was arranged around the time my child left and went to university (our kids are the same age but his predominantly lives with their mother) and aside from wanting to live together, it was also really important to me that I pool resources, cut costs and be able to save for the future as I wasn't getting any younger.

So it was both about the emotional bit of sharing a life with someone, but also about the security of being finally able to build for my own old age. So it really hurt me and caused a lot of fear for the future when he made it hard for me to move forward with the plan we'd made that would have offered me some security.

In the end, as idyllic as it sounds with the two houses (and we do love it) the reason he bought the house in the city centre and I got the one out by the seaside was that I needed a much cheaper area than he did! which wasn't actually ideal at the time, it means moving two hours from work, friends and my family and I was really bloody upset at the time.

It worked out well in the end, but it felt like a betrayal at the time and caused me for a long time to evaluate things with him. What I didn't like most was that it made me feel still alone and I had been alone a very long time and didn't want to be that anymore.

After the dust had settled on that, we did work through it over time. I explained that his decision had left me in fear for the future, as well as my NOK worries, and he listened quite calmly to my fears and that is when he went away and solved that problem for me,

He made me his legal NOK, added me to his will, and his work has some kind of scheme that pays the mortgage for a certain number of years in the event of something awful. I am not sure of the details but he more or less put iron clad financial protection in place for me.

So he solved the practical problem and certainly at that point it could have been about him protecting his child or his assets but he also made clear he was happy to sign away those assets to me and that he loved me and did not want me to feel afraid or alone, but he just didn't want us to have one house for whatever reason.

Since we had both house, as I say, it worked out and we love having a seaside place we run to for quiet weekends but it wasn't romantic at the time, it was really quite hard for me and I felt hugely let down by it. He always wants to be together, he never wants to be on his own in the city, so it isn't about space or likely money - he just wants on some level to avoid the marriage and the shared deeds to a house.

I do think though that over time he's calmed down and if I asked is to be on the deeds of each other's house, he would happily do that now. It was almost like he just needed a lot more time than I did.

We are financially independent, separate bank accounts and so on, and I would always want that. The idea of someone else seeing my bank account gives me a bit of ick as I have been independent for so long.

But life took a twist financially.

By funny circumstance (and a fair amount of hard work too!), my family business where I have worked for a few years has had some entrepreneurial success over the last few years and as a result, I get paid a lot more money (the same as he does now) so no longer need to struggle.

This also changes the future picture, as it means I now have assets in my shares and so my worth now far exceeds his for the future by about 10x as of today and likely to get higher. It is wealth enough that within 2 - 3 years we will both be able to give up work completely, and we have made plans to get a boat (we love sailing) and travel around the world.

So in effect, I suppose when I had nothing he was happy to give me what he had, and now I likely have a lot more he doesn't want it!

So really, I don't think this is about assets for him. He shows in every way he considers everything that is his to also be mine. He treats life and everything in it as if it is ours, and we make all our decisions together now.

In terms of our kids futures, they are both solidly cared for now. They each have homes to inherit from both us as well as grandparents so they will get a good start with things. They are both lovely young adults and get along like siblings and we both love one another's children and trust each other completely.

I will make sure his child gets the same from me as my own does probably - we feel like one family now after all this time and there will be more than enough to go around.

The bottom-line is that he is so allergic to the big life commitments, that he makes them difficult or unpleasant but it's emotional for him in some way, like a phobia rather than something more rational. I have empathy for that but as some previous posters mentioned it is difficult to let go of things that hold meaning for you, particularly if the reason you are being asked to is a but dysfunctional. I would ultimately be very sad if I never got married.

i am Catholic, not Muslim, although I don't practice much I do believe in God and marriage is something very sacred to me. I do think the legal side is important, I would like to be his wife and all that entails, but in terms of the spiritual side, I would actually be happy with a ceremonial wedding that was not legal, as that would make me feel like I was married inside even if the law didn't recognise me.

I am a bit sentimental.

I am glad I have been able to get this out, I am obviously not going to leave such a happy relationship with someone I love so much but maybe I need to come to terms with letting go of part of my dream. Maybe I am being silly, I am not sure why it feels important and as I say he is more of a husband to me than most real husbands.

I think there was a bit of me that had life really hard, awful relationships, a lot of struggle and being alone and I did have this knight in shining armour fantasy where someone would want to marry me and it would be all happy, but maybe I did get my knight - just not in the way it is on TV.

Reading your update OP, he has been more than responsive and fair to your concerns.

As a Catholic, you must know that, unless your man has received an annulment from the church for his first marriage (not just the legal divorce), he is not actually free to marry you in the church anyway? The church will not recognise your marriage as valid without an annulment. I had friends go through that process. Maybe this is what is holding him back?

We are 46 now, so I am romantic in different ways to when I was 30. I used to want the white wedding and so on, but the idea of that feels excruciating, so I would just want to go somewhere quiet just us and the kids and do it in about 15 minutes. I am completely uninterested in a wedding, but I'd like to be married to this man. It feels less important than it did yesterday. I think I am just coming to terms with the fact it's probably not happening and it's a mental adjustment as I just always thought I would be a wife.

God yes, forget about the TV shining knights, that's all twaddle. We're all in need of rescuing more than looking out for people to rescue, so if you've got what you describe, which is a loving and fair relationship, I'd take that happy reality over romantic fantasy anyway. I hear that the housing situation hurt at that time, but as you say a lot of that was down to your long years of parenting alone and it's worked out well in many ways. All I'd add is on this:

The bottom-line is that he is so allergic to the big life commitments, that he makes them difficult or unpleasant but it's emotional for him in some way, like a phobia rather than something more rational

Arguably it is rational to be allergic to re-marrying if you hated your last marriage or at least how it ended up/divorce. It seems sensible to not put your dick in that blender again, especially when things are going so well without it. He's made the meaningful commitments anyway - the financial and legal ones and day to day. So it's your impulse to marry that could be seen as more emotional than rational, rather than his impulse not to. A phobia of dogs makes sense if you've been savaged by one.

Do you have wills?
Have you had conversations about long term commitment? How you intend to leave your assets - to children/each other?
Pensions? Who is named an beneficiary of any death in service type arrangement?
These are the things that marriage simplifies.
Why do you want to get married?

I am born Catholic, but don't practice it or follow any of the dogma. I'd be very happy with a non denominational Christian wedding. Just something where there was a ring and we'd both made vows to God about it.

It really wasn't rational at the time to be in a LTR in your 40s and to buy two separate houses 2.5 hours away from each other. It was actually quite dysfunctional and made things financially much harder for both of us for a good couple of years. It worked out well but honestly it was bizarre seeing someone so otherwise completely rational act in ways that made things really hard!

I would not marry in your circumstances. With adult children etc. it makes more sense not to.

This!
I am divorced (horrible divorce) and am the early stages (4months) of a relationship with a widower. He is fantastic in all the ways you describe your partner being. We both have adult children and no way do I want to marry again after my hideous divorce. We obviously still have separate residences (luckily only a mile apart) but spend a lot of time in both houses. He is gorgeous and I hope the relationship lasts forever, but I want to keep out separate homes and not marry. Makes inheritance vastly simple.

I missed your update.
OP, you have a great relationship here.

Marriage is a good idea if it makes sense finanically. It's a legal contract. You're coming at it from a sentimental angle, which is when you break it down just ideas and expectations that have been laid over the idea of marriage, but aren't "real".

Once bitten twice shy is a real thing, and in your shoes I'd back right off and let it be, rather than push for this and risk what you have because it sounds wonderful.

I'm not seeing a problem here. You've done kids already, you have a great relationship. Hard to see how marriage is going to improve that.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Keep things as they are.

Two houses sounds like bliss to me.

Have you said to him what you said in your OP? That he takes what should be happy and natural milestones in life and turns them into unnecessary ordeals? Can you ask him to experiment with just saying yes to something and doing it in the shortest time possible, with minimum fuss and no prevarication. just to see how it feels? Can you ask him to do the deathbed thing and say: would you like to look back on your last day on earth and say: I was only ever married to X. I wanted to marry NottingChill but always put it off even though I was happier with her than anyone else?

Gently get him to face head-on the way he is behaving, given that it gets in the way of what both of you want.

This sounds like a PERFECT situation!

You have a great relationship with a London msn and split your time between two homes! Lucky you!

If you split up, you’ve both got your own home - great!

If you die your property goes to your adult kids - great!
If he dies his property goes to his adult kids which is exactly as it should be.

This is a good, sustainable, win-win situation for all concerned. What on earth do you want to get married for?

I am your DH!

Sometimes I can't even give a rational explanation to why I don't want to marry my DP. He would marry me tomorrow.

We have been together 15 years. All legalities, wills etc are in place.

My explanation is an awful divorce, which I know doesn't have to repeat. More than the terror of the divorce though, I think it is about having my choice taken away. Some of that is irrational, if we split now, there would still be choices made that wouldn't suit us both.
My exH had an affair, decided family life wasn't for him, put our family home on the market without me knowing…he took away my choices. He changed my future and that of our DC’s. I suppose not agreeing to marry and commit feels like I am keeping my choices, both in the decision but also for the future.