Seven years and he doesn't want to marry me

[NottingChill]

My DP and I have our seven year anniversary upcoming, and I am just taking stock of things and I want to ask if this would bother you.

There are lots of great things about our relationship.

1. Very affectionate, always smooching still
2. He's very caring and nurturing
3. He is incredibly supportive and no matter what I want to do he always backs me and encourages me
4. He absolutely always has my back and is as reliable as clockwork
5. Great sex (still!)
6. He puts me first even though I don't ask
7. When we fight, which is rare, we are both quick to apologise
8. I always have his time and attention and vice versa
9. He doesn't seem to recognise any of my flaws or finds them cute (I feel the same about his)
10. He thinks I am much better looking than I actually am!
11. He is always consistent, always reliable, always there
12. He is really thoughtful - does nice things for me all the time, like pumps up my tyres or makes me snacks if I am working
13. He gives me space when I need it without any hassle (first man I ever met who does this one!)
14. He is incredibly kind and helpful to my adult child
15. He'd give me the shirt off his back if I needed it
16. He always makes an effort, with everything
17. We laugh, a lot and are playful most days at home
18. If something is ever difficult, he always wants to solve it as a team
19. The relationship feels like a safe home.

Etc. It is a good relationship and I feel very lucky and he says all the time that he also does. But, while he offers all the day to day commitments, he avoids the life milestone kind of commitments which most people seem to take in their stride.

He was very slow to share intimate details of himself with me when we first met, and very slow to say "I love you" (now he says it many times a day) but he was certainly very hard to initially get close to.

When the time came to "move in" together, as in, we had discussed it and planned it, when the time actually came, he made an absolute nightmare of it to the point that I got pissed off and went and got my own house.

Then once I had got my own house, he apologised, bought a place on his own and now we have two houses. Yes, this sounds crazy but with hindsight this was his conflict avoidant way of essentially saying he wasn't ready to live together - which is a bit off after five years together, no?

Anyway, years on from that, we now live together, although we still have two houses. One is in the city centre and one by the sea so we split our time. He doesn't want to be apart, ever so it isn't that he doesn't want to be with me but the short version is that with these big milestones, he is so averse to them that he will basically take what should be an easy and happy experience (like moving in together) and turn it into such a nightmare that you just give up.

In the end we did do all the things I wanted, both houses feel like ours, we did the painting and decorating together, our adult kids both stay in both places, it feels like we live together but it was very important to him on some level that we both maintained some level of autonomy even if only on paper.

Similarly, we discussed marriage during a conversation where he said I was the love of his life and he was absolutely sure he wanted to be with me forever and marry me etc. but since then whenever I bring it up he changes the subject, tries to make a joke or if pushed quite hard, admits he is afraid of getting married again.

He has been divorced for 17 years.

So while his first marriage was crap, I feel like it's a bit odd that it would stop him getting married now. I am not sure why it bothers me but part of it is security, not financially as I am in his will and I have the same assets he does anyway but more than if we were sick or something that we would just not be fully legally entwined. Another might sound a bit daft but I am quite religious and I am a bit worried about dying without being married to him, it feels like an important thing to me and I would be sad if I died unmarried.

I just want to know if you think I am being silly. It is clear to me after all these years that I am with someone who really loves me who makes me very happy (and he is far more of a husband to me than most actual husbands I know), but it also makes me a bit sad that his need for some background autonomy or his past fears mean that I miss out on some things that feel like they're important to me.

Can people just give me some feedback on if they think this matters or not?

I hope you don't mind me asking this gently, do you worry that if you were to die while in a sexual relationship outside of marriage, you'd be judged for it from a religious point of view? That kind of fear can really sit at the back of your mind and affect how you feel about the whole situation.

That's a very good question. 10 years ago, I would have worried we wouldn't end up in heaven together. Now, I am not sure what I really believe but I think maybe heaven or hell is something we create for ourselves, and if God is real then he (or she!) would be happy he and I are together and live the life we do. There's a lot of kindness between us and I can't picture God judging me for that.

While I became less formally religious with age, I did become more theological and philosophical. Theology to me is about the building blocks on which we built civilisation and the way we live and the meaning our lives hold. I don't think you need to be religious to get that, which is why religion and philosophy cross over so much. We are on, perhaps, on some level looking for answers.

If you properly read the bible from a theological perspective (which is actually fascinating when you set it against the context of history and the world that sprung from the words written all that time ago) then you come to see that in the Old Testament, marriage is a metaphor for our relationship with God.

You can take from that what you want to, perhaps God to you is nature or the universe, but the point really is that the lessons we are called upon to learn in life: loyalty, faith, refusing temptation, commitment, trust, pain, joy - they are all the same ones we are called on to learn about in marriage.

We make a choice to love and to trust and to not give up, and that relationship we are called upon to have with our spouse is the same one the Bible asks us to have with God. I don't think that is coincidence, it's very deliberate.

With this context in mind what you see is that people thousands of years ago, while very different from us, wanted much the same things: To be safe, to be loved, to be redeemed for the very worst things about themselves.

So marriage, I suppose, (if done properly) is a sacred covenant to me which represents a commitment not just to my DP but a commitment before God. A vow to love, honour, and protect someone through everything life throws at you.

Whilst I am not currently sure if I believe in God in the traditional way, I feel that message still stands and that the covenant of marriage is sacred before whatever each person holds to be of value.

That was me being a complete dork, but I read a lot and think about this stuff.

This is what I meant when I said it held meaning for me. It is about more than just a Disney movie idea of life, it holds an important message about who I am too. I didn't reach 40 unmarried by accident. It was always something really, really serious to me and I waited 39 years to find the person I was ready to make those vows to.

I would hope, if there is a God, that he or she would know that even though I haven't had a wedding, I have made these vows to my DP. I do love, honour and protect him and will continue to always do that. I am sure my DP has made those vows to me too. And maybe that is what matters.

If it's about making things right with who I am and the universe then I think the life we live is one which I wouldn't ever feel any regret for living. I can't imagine my life without him.

ahh this is beginning to make sense. Were you brought up in a v religious household?

I’d be fine with not getting married, especially when it comes to adult children and assets. I wouldn’t want to either. You seem really happy as it is. You have a fantastic relationship, I would leave this honestly. You aren’t having joint kids theres no need. Not getting married protects both of you.

I suppose yes. If you are Lebanese Catholic then it's sort of normal culturally for life to revolve around Church and family and so on. My Dad was an atheist though and Mum didn't force anything on anyone. They've never hassled me for not getting married!

Wow - what a kind and thoughtful thing to do. He's a keeper, no wonder you want to marry him😂

OP, you said he was a nightmare when you first tried to move in together, what exactly happened?

@MascaraGirl

Urgh, it was bloody awful. DS left for uni (I was already an emotional mess given it had been just us for many years) and the plan was that we would look for places to buy with a view to moving into a jointly owned place around that time. We had the money etc. saved up for three years.

I had been a tenant at my flat for a long time and was close with my elderly landlords, who had expressed that they wanted to sell the property due to growing health expenses. They kindly agreed to put off putting it on the market until DS left for university.

So the deadline was on me, and my landlords wanted me out, and we'd agreed to a plan, but when it came to looking, he just wouldn't look.

I would try and send him properties or arrange appointments and he'd change the subject or say he was ill or have late work to do. It went on for months like that and in the end I had to give up my flat because I had no option.

So there I was with no flat, him not even looking, all mine and DS's stuff in storage and I was living at his place (which had no bedroom for DS) and I either had to choose between buying my own place, or renting again.

Things came to a head when that had gone on for about three months and DS came to his Christmas holidays and effectively had no home to go to. I am a patient person, but putting my DS in that position made me absolutely furious. My DS is so important to me and I'd always had a stable home for him and I felt absolutely livid that I was more or less put in a position of not providing that.

So I told him I was going to buy my own house, and found somewhere really far away that I could actually afford and just went. I thought to myself that I wasn't going to take another lease and carry on renting in my 40s because of some man, so I just went off and did it. At that time I had no intention of being with him because I felt he'd made it clear he wasn't trustworthy or committed to me.

After I walked out, he miraculously chose and purchased a flat within 10 days of me leaving.

So yes, a nightmare.

It took him many months of begging and grovelling to get me back after that as I was honestly ready to walk away completely after that, but then he worked very hard for a very long time to win back the relationship but I would say it took more than a year to get to a place of calm again.

I gradually started just living with him and over time he gave me all the commitment and legal status that I asked for, and he no longer has anxiety around those things, but his anxiety at the time was so big he put me and DS in a really bad situation.

So as I say, it worked out well, but very much could not have.

I am in a very similar position to you, right down to the seven years of a great relationship, not initially ready to move in together when I suggested it, and both battle scarred.
But we sat down about 6 months in and he told me that although he would eventually divorce (they’d been apart a decade at this point), he would never marry again. His reasons were that he couldn’t make the same promise twice (vows), and that his mind would not be changing. Like you, I was sad about it but I have generally come to terms with it.

Seven years later, he is 3 years into a messy divorce, one he predicted which is why he’d held off. His ex is unpleasant and has almost completely alienated their DCs as they can see through her lies and take their dad’s side.

Ultimately my choice was accept his decision or lose the best relationship I’d ever had. I’d be lying if I said it doesn’t niggle occasionally but he’s committed to me as much as your DP and we are happy which means the compromise is worth it.

But if you have wills where you leave everything to each other and you die first all of the money could be spent by your partner though (care needs or whatever) and neither of the children will inherit anything. Would you actually be OK with that for your child? Same with putting both names on the deeds for both properties, you will then both own second homes technically and with that comes tax implications and council tax hikes.

I get that you want the financial commitment but it doesn’t actually make much sense from a financial point of view.

I don't have a will at all, and his splits his assets between myself and his DD in a way that makes sure both are looked after. We probably need to do mine, but he went off and did all his stuff without telling me he was doing it, he just wanted to ensure I wasn't worried about that

I'm going to go against the grain here OP and say that he doesn't sound like the man who does truly have your back. I'd stay in a relationship if you're happy but I wouldn't shackle myself legally to this man.

I agree. He sounds nice enough but I don’t they are truly compatible.

OK, so he is financially compensating you in the hope that you will stop bringing up the marriage thing. He really doesn't want to get married. I think when he is saying he wants to marry you he is confusing it with wanting to be with you, because that he really does.

It's quite telling that he is willing to give you half of his assets and only giving his daughter half when you haven't put the same thing in place. He's desperate to keep you but it's now costing his daughter half of her inheritance.

I think if you care about him and his well-being you need to take marriage off the table completely, unless it's a case of marriage or break-up for you. His reasons for not wanting to get married may stem from childhood trauma with regards to abandoment issues or his horrible previous experience of being married, but it doesn't matter. Those are his reasons and they are as valid as any other reason. People are allowed to make choices based on anxiety because of past trauma. It's pretty much the same thing as following his gut feeling for him. It may not seem logical but most of us have been burnt by things in the past and we don't want to take the risk and do the same thing again just in case the outcome is different the next time. It's not personally about you or his feelings for you, it's much deeper.

If you have assets you really do need to make a will.

If you haven’t seen for yourself the will, I wouldn’t take that he’s left half to you as read.

but if I’m being honest, if I was in your position (with my own house and money) I would also want everything to go to his daughter.

Did you ever ask him why he was reluctant to live with you? That all seems very strange.

how many years were you together when you started looking for a place (when he wouldn’t look)

in you me situation id have taken the hint that he didn’t want to live with me and got my own place and told him to bugger off. It sounds as if he only got somewhere because you were threatening to move away and he was desperate to keep you as a gf

hard to know who’s side to take as I’m unsure of the timeline

I don’t think it’s worked out well at all.

Just to be clear, at the time he did that, he didn't tell me he was doing it - he just went and did it otherwise I would have done the same. Also, a very important point is that at the time he did it, I didn't have two pennies to rub together - I came into a much better financial position due to the success of a family business opportunity, which was genuinely not foreseen.

If you’re in a much better financial position and not married, he shouldn’t be putting you into his will. Tell him to change it to pass everything to his daughter.

I didn't have any money when this happened. I do now, and people are right I should make a will.

Yea, I understand that you weren't pressuring him into putting you into his will. This was presumably quite a while ago then and if this is still how his will looks and you haven't reciprocated then you really need to tell him to change the will so that his child will inherit everything. You don't need the money, you don't share finances or have any financial ties to each other and you both have children seperately who should inherit from their respective parent. I know his daughter is young still so she obviously doesn't know about this but I can't imagine that it would be good for yours and hers relationship if she found out that her dad is giving away half of his assets to you, but your child is getting 100% of yours. There is no fairness at all in this setup, it's all to benefit you.

I am really not sure how all this works, and I will have to talk to him and work out a plan, but I would hope it were obvious that if he died before we sit down and discuss changing our wills that I would not take anything from his daughter!

What this tells me is that he has to panic to the level of terror to fight to keep you. That you—and perhaps only you—matter that much to him. However he can only act by panicking, dissociating, and complying (buying the flat) and then collapse and grovel to atone and get you back). The same would force him—or allow him—to marry you. The terror of abandonment would enable him to overcome his resistance. And then, frankly, he would be happy. Because he is happy eith you. He just magically/superstitiously, almost delusionally fears that marriage will destroy him or transform you into the enemy.

I agree with Attilla—he would be lucky to have you. If he could overcome his robotic terror he could start to give you something you really want and also be the truly loving and giving man he would like to be.

now that you do have money and property he should be removing you from it.

This is really astute.

What you say in your first paragraph is pretty much exactly how he explained it.

He said that with the house thing, he felt huge anxiety about moving forwards and then when reality hit him that he had materially hurt me, and worse, I was actually gone completely, that despair and terror took over that was far worse than the initial anxiety, so he stopped feeling the other anxiety because one was much bigger than the other.

That is how he explained it to me more or less exactly.

He said what made him shit scared about it was that as soon as the date loomed up, he couldn't stop wondering where he would go if we had a fight (that was basically his fear, me kicking him out of his own house and him having nowhere to go, which is what his ex wife did and technically what happened with the addict parent too).

The irony there being that the only thing we were fighting about was him not buying the house!

So the root is that he has to know that he can't be kicked out, that it's impossible for someone to do that to him because these are his traumatic memories of the former times he has depended on others.

I think this is why he is happy to freely give me anything and everything, but he must also know that he can't be kicked out if I were to become a monster. He has spent the four years since doing everything he could to make me feel safe, secure and loved. So I let it go and moved on.

We live together and share everything, what's mine is his and vice versa but I guess his house is still in his name and that is what was important to him. Perhaps that is the root of why he doesn't want to get married, as I guess that would change.

I just wish he had talked to me about it so we could have planned something sensibly but I think he has always been so scared of losing me or disappointing me that in our earlier years he found it a bit hard to state his needs. He is better now at that.

With the marriage thing though, I suppose it's different. I am not materially affected by it in the same way. If he needs to keep that security, I don't actually mind. He is a very loving and giving person. I feel a bit like a dick head for even bringing this discussion up.

One real benefit though has been being able to talk about it a bit. I am a bit embarrassed to talk to anyone IRL about it lest they think I am being childish about something that isn't that important. But it's still a loss for me, it's definitely something I will grieve in a small way as for the reasons explained it was important to me.

I do think that over time, as the years have passed, his fears have settled a great deal. I think he feels safer and knows I won't turn into a monster during hard times. As that moves forward, he naturally needs the autonomy less and less. I haven't had to push or fight for things, he has just freely given them. So maybe in his own way he is healing!