Seven years and he doesn't want to marry me

[NottingChill]

My DP and I have our seven year anniversary upcoming, and I am just taking stock of things and I want to ask if this would bother you.

There are lots of great things about our relationship.

1. Very affectionate, always smooching still
2. He's very caring and nurturing
3. He is incredibly supportive and no matter what I want to do he always backs me and encourages me
4. He absolutely always has my back and is as reliable as clockwork
5. Great sex (still!)
6. He puts me first even though I don't ask
7. When we fight, which is rare, we are both quick to apologise
8. I always have his time and attention and vice versa
9. He doesn't seem to recognise any of my flaws or finds them cute (I feel the same about his)
10. He thinks I am much better looking than I actually am!
11. He is always consistent, always reliable, always there
12. He is really thoughtful - does nice things for me all the time, like pumps up my tyres or makes me snacks if I am working
13. He gives me space when I need it without any hassle (first man I ever met who does this one!)
14. He is incredibly kind and helpful to my adult child
15. He'd give me the shirt off his back if I needed it
16. He always makes an effort, with everything
17. We laugh, a lot and are playful most days at home
18. If something is ever difficult, he always wants to solve it as a team
19. The relationship feels like a safe home.

Etc. It is a good relationship and I feel very lucky and he says all the time that he also does. But, while he offers all the day to day commitments, he avoids the life milestone kind of commitments which most people seem to take in their stride.

He was very slow to share intimate details of himself with me when we first met, and very slow to say "I love you" (now he says it many times a day) but he was certainly very hard to initially get close to.

When the time came to "move in" together, as in, we had discussed it and planned it, when the time actually came, he made an absolute nightmare of it to the point that I got pissed off and went and got my own house.

Then once I had got my own house, he apologised, bought a place on his own and now we have two houses. Yes, this sounds crazy but with hindsight this was his conflict avoidant way of essentially saying he wasn't ready to live together - which is a bit off after five years together, no?

Anyway, years on from that, we now live together, although we still have two houses. One is in the city centre and one by the sea so we split our time. He doesn't want to be apart, ever so it isn't that he doesn't want to be with me but the short version is that with these big milestones, he is so averse to them that he will basically take what should be an easy and happy experience (like moving in together) and turn it into such a nightmare that you just give up.

In the end we did do all the things I wanted, both houses feel like ours, we did the painting and decorating together, our adult kids both stay in both places, it feels like we live together but it was very important to him on some level that we both maintained some level of autonomy even if only on paper.

Similarly, we discussed marriage during a conversation where he said I was the love of his life and he was absolutely sure he wanted to be with me forever and marry me etc. but since then whenever I bring it up he changes the subject, tries to make a joke or if pushed quite hard, admits he is afraid of getting married again.

He has been divorced for 17 years.

So while his first marriage was crap, I feel like it's a bit odd that it would stop him getting married now. I am not sure why it bothers me but part of it is security, not financially as I am in his will and I have the same assets he does anyway but more than if we were sick or something that we would just not be fully legally entwined. Another might sound a bit daft but I am quite religious and I am a bit worried about dying without being married to him, it feels like an important thing to me and I would be sad if I died unmarried.

I just want to know if you think I am being silly. It is clear to me after all these years that I am with someone who really loves me who makes me very happy (and he is far more of a husband to me than most actual husbands I know), but it also makes me a bit sad that his need for some background autonomy or his past fears mean that I miss out on some things that feel like they're important to me.

Can people just give me some feedback on if they think this matters or not?

Yes, I have said this to him. He looked sad and said he really loved me but just had huge anxiety around it and accepted it wasn't reasonable. He also said if anything were to happen to me that he'd deeply regret not having married me when he had a chance and he admits a lot of his big decisions are based on what he is scared of rather than what he wants.

I agree with all the posters that despite the strange way we went about it having two houses is generally brilliant (although our London place is a shoebox) we get the best of both worlds being close to work and family and then having somewhere to escape and we love our seaside house which we have made more of a family home there for Christmas and things like that.

It also, both having been alone for a long time as adults and not ever really having our own space that belonged to us (we both rented until we were 40!) it is nice that he gets to have the city place a bit masculine with bookshelves and a bit minimalist, whereas the seaside place is more like my personality.

We fit in, but there's also a separateness which on some level I admittedly also appreciate as going from being alone so long as an adult to being enmeshed isn't completely easy for me either. He moves very slowly, but we have become inseparable gradually over time.

@ShouldWeGoAway I think you hit the nail on the head and for him, he must have autonomy on some level, in order to feel safe. He experienced foster care when he was young due to parental addiction, and then his marriage was awful. His ex wife was controlling and clingy and wouldn't let him see friends, or explore his career and things like that because she felt he was going to run off. In the end she did what your ex husband did in a sense and disappeared with the child and he found all his choices were gone and he was left with nothing and more or less had to start again. He needs to maintain his autonomy on some level so he feels safe.

I get that. We all come battle scarred.

I have realised I am being silly. We are happy. I think we will figure this out in time and if he marries me when I am 60 so be it!

I'm glad the thread has been helpful for you. It sounds like he has dealt with some hard things in his life and is doing well to be as functional as he is, even if that leaves him with some avoidant tendencies. I hope the two of you remain very happy.

he really loved me but just had huge anxiety around it and accepted it wasn't reasonable

I actually think it is hugely reasonable for him to feel this way. He has been messed around so much by people from a young age. If it makes him feel more secure and safe not being legally tied to another person then I think you should let him have that. The reasons for marriage aren't strong enough at your stage in life and most importantly, things are very good between you as it is.

OP I completely understand where your dp is coming from. He wants to maintain HIS security too. You mentioned you worried about yours in that past, isn't he allowed to do the same. You've adult dc, he treats you well, everyday you are both actively choosing to stay together. Tbh this is far more committed in my eyes than a marriage where the hassle of splitting up often puts people off and they put up with stuff that non married people wouldn't. Stop thinking about a Disney princess ending and see the reality of what comes across as a solid relationship with a caring but sensible man.

Glad to see your update 👍

Would you/he consider a non-church wedding? Maybe if you went to a registry office or even Gretna Green so there’s no stress, no lots of family etc, just you two and the adult children as your witnesses?

Just thinking that if he wants to marry you, it could be the whole service thing, especially as you say he was in care so may worry that his ‘side’ of the church would be empty and yours full? A registry office would do away with that, or even getting married when on holiday, and you could have a blessing later & party for friends?

Tbh he sound lovely and is obviously thoughtful and loving (phobia apart!)

Beautiful, thoughtful, update OP. I think, all things considered, you have come to a good place with this situation. He sounds like a lovely person who is doing the best he can to manage some pretty deep trauma and abandonment issues. Miraculously (and I say that from a therapist’s perspective) he has emerged as a loving, dependable, committed person who is capable of being fully there for you except, just now, through marriage. That is a lot that’s pretty wobderful given his start in life.

What happens if he dies?

Who gets his estate because unless you are the beneficiary under his will, it won't be you.

What happens if one of you becomes seriously incapacitated? Is the other empowered to take decisions (medical or otherwise) on behalf of the incapacitated one?

I'm a retired IFA and I have seen too many women in your situation end up in serious shit because they and their partner hadn't got all their legal paperwork in order.

If you don't want to get married, fine. But please make sure your wills, pension and death benefit nominations and powers of attorney are all in order and up to date.

She already said all that legal stuff was in order.

She's addressed all of this in her posts.

Sounds like a mostly wonderful relationship. You already have children so doesn’t sound like you’re in a rush for that. Why the need to get married?

After my earlier post, yes it is about autonomy ( great word). I was wary of using the word control but control in a good way, control over your own life in a positive sense. Autonomy.

I totally get not wanting to marry again. Marriage (in my opinion) has no bearing on anything at all. Married people cheat, and marriages can become unhealthy. Just as non married partnerships can. Do you really need a piece of paper to prove that he loves you? Or can’t the long list of actions you have shared be enough proof?

His children get it

He accepted it wasn’t reasonable

it’s perfectly reasonable if he doesn’t want to marry…I don’t think you’re getting it

He was divorced 17 years ago in his late 20s. Has he never sat in front of a therapist since that time to discuss his apparent fears re marrying again?.

You and he seemingly have a nice life together materially speaking which is great but there is a disconnect. There is this incompatibility here re his apparent refusal to marry again (and in addition running away or otherwise covering it all up with humour and emojis) that has not and will not go away. And you are not his ex wife; you're a completely different person to that lady. Surely he must acknowledge that fact?.

He got married at one point so he must understand why people want to marry. He telling you as someone who has not experienced marriage that you will perhaps not get to do so because he knows better does not feel great to hear to be honest. Even if half of all marriages end in divorce, there is half that do not and at least some of those people would say how great marriage is. Wanting to get married to what you see as a good match is valid. It may be an incompatibility with him but that does not mean it is silly.

You mention in passing leaving the same to his child as your own. Sounds lovely but please make sure you’re both on the same page. Honestly I think one of the benefits of your situation is that you can leave to yours and he to his and it’s very simple. Would be sad for your child if you die first leaving a split then he leaves everything to his. Just make sure you’ve thought through all the possibilities, not making a sentimental decision there.

Well, I think "Reasonable" would mean based on sense or logic. A lot of people have posted here that they never want to get married. Fair enough. It's reasonable if it's based on logic. But I don't think the issue is that he doesn't want to get married- it is more that he makes most big life decisions based on anxiety and self-defence rather than what he wants.

That's understandable. Having anxiety about remarrying after a traumatic divorce is natural. Seventeen years doesn’t erase scars and I understand that. It’s understandable not to rush. But if you know in your gut that you want to marry someone (and he has said he does), then letting a 17-year-old wound dictate your future doesn't seem like a great way to make choices and it's a bit scary when the person you love makes choices in this way.

Some years ago, the two houses thing did nearly throw away our life together completely because I was absolutely livid over it. Why? Because we had agreed years earlier that we would move in together when my child went to university. We had agreed that we were both saving up for the deposit for that.

We lived in London and I couldn't afford my own place there, so I either had to relocate to another place much cheaper (on my own as my child had just left home!) or give up my own security of buying a home which I'd been working towards for twenty years.

I really felt that was a shit position to put me in and it truly hurt me. It took a lot of time and changes between us for me to move past it, and I think I was quite generous with that.

As it happened, my financial position got much rosier. As it happened I WFH so moving around works well. As it happened we actually like having two houses, we see one now as our holiday home. As it happened, once we had two houses we ended up living together anyway and so it matters very little.

My point really is that we have made it work, and circumstances have built around it in a way where we love our life - but just as easily my work could have gone the other way and then I'd be mid 40s, struggling to survive in a house on my own 200 miles from anyone I know - and that would be really, really shit.

So when your life and dreams are governed by someone else dysfunction, it can cause you pain and strife for certain. I do think though that moving at this slower pace has been what he needed to feel safe, and I am okay with that, he was worth it. I think he has also listened to the things I need to feel safe and he's given those with both hands open so it took compromise to get where we are.

All that said based on this thread I decided to forget about it as it feels like it won't materially affect my day to day life and I have a lot to be grateful for. Nobody is perfect and I do have empathy for how our past experiences can affect us.

I feel very lucky to have him, even if not everything was always as I expected.

No, he isn't a therapist kind of guy. He is a "send an emoticon and leave the room strategically" kind of guy. He will talk about stuff if it's important to me, he always says he gets massive anxiety from such conversations but he'd far prefer having them as me not talking to him is the worst outcome.

He knows I am not his ex wife, he knows I am never going to be like his ex wife, he knows lots of marriages are happy. As I say, it's not based on logic or reason for him, it's like he just has a phobia. And I am petrified of flying and will do the most outrageous things to avoid it so I understand the things which scare us aren't always things we can talk ourselves out of.

Yes, don't worry, I am a lioness about my child and he always comes first :) But I would always do whatever was in my power to make sure DPs child was always looked after.

I think it sounds like you aren’t truly compatible in all honesty

The way you put it there, your life and security being dictated by someone else’s dysfunction, is very elegant and relatable. I’ve felt that way, though a somewhat different situation. I gave in to what his anxiety dictated up to a point. For me there was a clear red line where I simply couldn’t take the additional risks in my own life and it would be relationship ending. He did get over the anxiety under that level of pressure with a very clear practical reason behind it. So far working out okay. But I couldn’t have faked the red line, if you know what I mean, and it hasn’t prevented his anxiety continuing to shape my life in smaller ways. Sorry, no advice here just sympathy

@Uol2022 yes, it isn't ideal when you have plans and the person you live life with reneges on them or changes them to things you don't want them to be. However, I think maybe we got through all the hurdles of life now and have a day to day thing that works.

If he never marries me, I am going to be sad probably, but I would be happy for the life we've had together. It is the best life I could have hoped for.

He would be a fool not to marry you frankly.

And consider going on a fear of flying course re your phobia of flying.