Just found out the person I am seeing has absolutely no assets or pension!

[Jemjemima]

I recently had an amicable separation from my husband about a year and a half ago and have been seeing a new partner for about 6 months. This person really is a wonderful man and I haven’t felt this comfortable with anyone for a very long time. He is attentive, caring and has been very supportive. I was very Frank from the start that I didn’t know which direction I was heading and that I wanted to do the right thing all ‘round to make the separation as calm and respectful as possible for my 2 teenage children. He was happy to offer support and we have had some great times together. I had noticed he had quite a few credit cards, rented a flat and had a lease car. I am financially solvent and have worked all my life and planned hard but I am not interested in grand jestures or posh nights out. I always pick up the bill every other meal, treat us to a weekend away etc, but I have noticed on occasion his cards get rejected. I have asked him about it and he just says it’s all fine. I have started to have feelings for this man but my gut is saying no! I have since discover that he is in £30k worth of debt, no assets and no pension. He had a good job and was earning £70k but was always struggling a bit. He is 59 and has recently been made redundant and his employment and insurance stops paying in September. My daughter goes to uni in about 16 months for 5 years and so I know I will have to be careful with my money, this I had planned for. I will soon be living alone once the house has sold and will need to be cautious but I hate myself for wanting to end this relationship because of his lack of any stability. He has actually been fighting for unfair dismissal and has said he will have a payout soon and that will be his pension but it will just not be enough and he has some cavalier ideas for his money! I want to end the relationship but I feel so guilty. I am not motivated by money in the slightest. He is currently trying to keep the relationship going but I want to run! I hate to be practical when love is involved!

He has spent his 70K salary, proceeds of property sale, 80K inheritance and has still racked up 30K debts

I haven’t been on the thread for a while and can’t remember the situation fully, but the summaries of this man’s gallery of financial failures by pp has been helpful. This man is apparently financially reckless as he has no real explanation for how he’s ended up like this - for example a failed business or unexpected costs of taking care of an elderly relative.

I agree with others, taking about prenups at this early stage in this context is a red flag. Him continuing to rack up debts is a red flag too

Tell him you will never remarry and it would be several years before you even allowed a man to move in and there would be conditions on that and see how he reacts.

@Frequentlyincorrectbut I think you’re right. OP, please read and reread their post which lists all the reasons this isn’t a good idea.

Some people are just dreadful with money but what does it matter if they are not asking you for financial help, they get by and you're not living together. It looks as though this guy manages to sail through and he'll probably continue to do so. It doesn't make him a bad person, he's not asking for hand outs.

I have been on dates with men like this and they are just drifters, they tend to drift from woman to woman, sometimes the women have children, they build a life with that one, then that one gets fed up with the situation of them never having any money, and they shift onto the next one

I have came across men like this too on online dating and I’m only late 30s. One man was mid 40s and he was living with his ex girlfriend (in her rented flat), studying for an undergrad and working in a bar. I asked what he had been doing career wise for the last two decades and he tried to gloss over it with his charm. His ambition was to become a “life coach” but it wasn’t clear why he thought it was important at his age to get into tens of thousands of student debt studying marketing.

He said he usually dates younger women but wanted to try out a woman “his age”. I pointed out I was actually younger than him so not his age, but told him he could continue to date “much younger women” because women my age - or at least myself, don’t want a man who’s in the same situation we were in back in our early 20s.

It was clear he was looking for a new woman to live off.

When I was younger another man told he was a newly arrived (illegal) immigrant in another EU country and was hoping to start part time casual work. Gross!

Not the fact he’s undocumented or barely employed, but the fact instead of trying to sort his papers out and/or work full-time he’s online clearly looking for a woman to support him. The lack of ambition and focus on the wrong thing was so unattractive to me.

I’ve been unemployed before and my focus was finding a job. I actually rejected men who approached me and even as a woman, I certainly wouldn’t have been on dating websites actively looking for dates.

Well if he’s talking about marriage and prenups after less than a year of dating, he clearly is thinking of living with her in the long term and marriage will involve a degree of joining finances.

She will of course in her situation be subsidising him if they get married and he knows that. He’s only keeping up with her now by going further into debt. He has no pension at 60 and can’t work forever.

You need to read between the lines, most men like that don’t ask for money right off the bat. If you’ve ever watched true crime docs about fraudsters they start by wining and dining the woman and then all of a sudden they’re “borrowing” money from her. Not saying he’s a fraudster because tbf he’s actually been somewhat honest, but it’s still the same mindset of charming your way from being the fun boyfriend//attentive lover to financially dependent partner/husband.

The problem is the deeper the relationship gets the harder it will be for OP to see clearly. So it’s not as easy to just cut things off if/when things become serious, hence people are advising her to leave sooner rather than later.

Someone mentioned this earlier on, but no one falls in love quicker than a man who needs somewhere to live.
You're such a prime target, OP.

He was talking about prenups - ie getting married to the OP - within months. This man is serious about wanting to marry her.

Yes this why I suggest OP look him in the eye and say she’s not interested in marriage and would even have to think very long and hard about a man moving, then watch carefully how he reacts.

It’s a bit like when I was single and I’d tell men that I’d only sleep with men who were my boyfriend and clearly serious about me. Most of the ones clearly just wanting NSA sex after one or two dates would visibly wilt and fade away 😆

You do of course get some men who will keep up the pretence because they reckon they can talk you around to whatever is the MAIN thing they want from you in the long term be it sex or money. But being upfront like that does help get rid of most users.

At 60 his primary concern will be a soft landing.
It is hard to over emphasis how quickly health can sadly change in your 60's, my lovely GP calls it sniper alley.

I am hard nosed I think, and even I would find it hard to turn my back on someone I was involved with who suddenly had health issues, hadn't a penny to his name, debt, perhaps couldn't work?

It is absolutely not normal for a man to be talking marriage and pre-nups after only months.

But it indicates clearly that is where HIS head is, because he is focused on his soft landing and his precarious financialposition makes it HIS priority.

That is his prime concern at the moment, not the OP specifically, even though he may think she is a great woman, after all she is......solvent, working, asset rich and good company, ......in that order.

My golf club has several such men, not financially stuck, but whose priority is a nice woman who will look after their comforts, very much a nurse with a purse.

Several widows over the past couple of years have been genuinely appalled at how quickly they were approached by single men who would have known their husbands.
Shameless.

Burntlemon! Beautifully written and your honesty! Thank you. Apologies if I sounded goady - not my intention at all. I was trying to lighten the load a bit and you have written some frankly great things. You ask his reasons for loosing his financial health. His first wife had quite severe OCD and he tried very hard to navigate that with new ‘clean’ houses, even replacing everything in attempt to stop the decline of the mother of his 3 children. Private counselling and a failing family business he had to take out several loans. He ended up having to say goodbye to the business and start again right at the time she decided he was the problem, so he was paying the mortgage and rent and 2 sets of bills. She spent 2 years taking the money for all of the utilities and not actually paying them, so he had to pay them again. The inheritance paid off the loans. Three years later his sister revealed she had a gambling problem and he paid the remainder and his savings to keep her house over her head. The £70k job he no longer has was only for this last year. Before that he was on £45k and had worked for the same company for 7 years. He was headhunted for this last job. So, there is a history that can almost account for where he is and I can see how generous he is. He supported all 3 children through University but I think along the way, he just forgot to future proof himself. He is extremely supportive and very loving and has listened and cared for me when I have wanted to run. I just really think some people are not good with their finances and this panic pathway he has had to navigate has been extreme. I can see it weighing on him. He loves me with all his heart but I can see it in him, he knows I am cautious, he knows that his situation may end what we have and he has said to me ‘better to have loved ….”.

OP has said he's talked about the future and he gets hurt when she says nothing.

He knows how hesitant I feel when he makes plans for the future and I don’t respond.

He is all in but I have said Incouldnt marry a person in debt as it would threaten my kids inheritance.

He was sincere and ashamed and said he would even sign a prenuptial so there would never be any threat to my finances.

So he's been pushing a move in or marriage and trying to reassure OP about his debts and wild spending and financial irresponsibility with offering a prenup that apparently isn't worth the paper it's written on. This is a short term relationship of less than a year and OP has 2 teens in the home, the oldest is 17. I'd get mad if some dude was pushing he move in or get married when I had been clear that wasn't happening. For him to do it after mere months together when OP has teens living at home and so recently divorced, he's not caring what's best for her and her family, he's looking out for himself.

I think providing that important context for his current state of financial affairs is helpful and would have been worth mentioning earlier.

He may not necessarily be completely financially reckless or have a secret habit and it’s good he supported his children (as he should). However even if everything he says is true - and I’d take it with a pinch of salt- he’s still in this situation and doesn’t seem to have a plan to work his way out.

So it still looks to me that talking about prenups/marriages ten months in, at his age is a red flag. If he had his own everything I doubt he would be rushing to talk marriage with you at the same speed, if at all.

For him to do it after mere months together when OP has teens living at home and so recently divorced, he's not caring what's best for her and her family, he's looking out for himself.

Yep. And I almost have to hand it to men. They will always do what’s best for them and look out for themselves. Women need to be a bit more savvy and do the same more often.

Thats quite the saviour story he has given you!
So much more self serving than I lived the good life had a blast thinking sure tomorrow will take care of itself.

Now it is clear it is some solvent women who is hopefully going to be his saviour.

You are actually taking on his entire cabal who have somehow been saved by him.

Too convenient.
But then I am a bit hard nosed, as I have written and have definitely heard enough stories via 3 very solvent single friends, to know exactly how some charming, excellently attentive, focused on their comforts, hanging on their words, some men can be when they are future comfort focused.

It would be well worth doing the hard future calculations regarding the cost of a comfortable MC retirement, not to mind seeing teens through university.

Its eye-watering if you have been used to a comfortable life, to maintain this.

@Jemjemima "You ask his reasons for loosing his financial health. His first wife had quite severe OCD and he tried very hard to navigate that with new ‘clean’ houses, even replacing everything in attempt to stop the decline of the mother of his 3 children. Private counselling and a failing family business he had to take out several loans. He ended up having to say goodbye to the business and start again right at the time she decided he was the problem, so he was paying the mortgage and rent and 2 sets of bills. She spent 2 years taking the money for all of the utilities and not actually paying them, so he had to pay them again. The inheritance paid off the loans. Three years later his sister revealed she had a gambling problem and he paid the remainder and his savings to keep her house over her head. The £70k job he no longer has was only for this last year. Before that he was on £45k and had worked for the same company for 7 years. He was headhunted for this last job. So, there is a history that can almost account for where he is and I can see how generous he is. He supported all 3 children through University but I think along the way, he just forgot to future proof himself. He is extremely supportive and very loving and has listened and cared for me when I have wanted to run. I just really think some people are not good with their finances and this panic pathway he has had to navigate has been extreme."

Your thinking is ENTIRELY based on what he's told you. EVERYTHING! If there is one thing I've learned from life and reading here and elsewhere is that con-men - especially cocklodgers - can fabricate all sorts of plausible stories that wrench on the soft heart of women. And by time the woman realizes she's been conned, she - and her children - have been completely fleeced financially and emotionally.

Yes, you've met a friend who supports his "ex wife had OCD" story, but you don't know that friend from a bar of soap either. Con-men often get witting or unwitting allies to bolster their lies and stories.

I wonder what the ex-wife would say about what really went on. Maybe she was "OCD" because he was completely reckless with money, or betraying her financially, and she was frantic with anxiety. You have NO evidence that this alternative story, which seems much more plausible than his, is not true.

And then there's the love-bombing that he's doing. It's absolutely CLASSIC. And so is what you're writing - "I felt safe and seen and while we’re at it, he’s great in bed!... He is extremely supportive and very loving ... He loves me with all his heart". CLASSIC! You're COMPLETELY giddy from all the love-bombing, which he's ladling out in giant scoopfuls now that he knows you're not locked down yet.

EVERYthing you've written here - including that you've just come out of a long marriage (ie you are very vulnerable) - is EXACTLY how every other story of men successfully conning women goes.

This is all complete textbook stuff.

OP, keep your wits about you. Slow down.

It really is.
Funny how these poor guys always have a crazy ex, and are the hero in their own very finely tuned story!
There may be specks of truth to the story but it has long since been so finely tuned and woven, that they firmly believe their own narrative.

Family and friends often don't correct their Walter Mitty like tales because they are so charming and they invariably would like to see them settled and sorted.

My DH was like this when we met. He was younger though - 35. He was renting, so had no assets, no savings, and £18k of debt (iirc). It was scary, as in contrast I had a house with about £90k equity. I also had children to think about.

We did a Trust Deed for his debts (it's called an IVA in England), and after 5 years he was debt free.

He's still not great with money tbh, however, some 18 years on he only has minimal debt. We earn a similar amount, and pay 50/50 for bills and holidays. I never put him on my mortgage and we have a pre-nup, and I made a will after the marriage, to make sure my adult children are protected. I have savings, he doesn't - but this is because he spends a fortune on his hobbies - his choice! He is actually due to inherit quite a lot, so one day he will be better off than me.

I'd say if he is truly a good man then proceed, but just protect your assets. My DH is a much better man than my first H. There's a lot to be said for that.

I don’t get why he would bail his sister out ensuring she had a roof over his head ultimately leading to him not having a roof over his head . Surely to goodness you’d only help out if you were financially able to .
Tbh I think it doesn’t matter what anyone here says the OP has decided he’s the man for her . She’ll be on a Netflix documentary soon . I trusted to readily and now have nothing .

35 and 60 are completely different.

And I suppose although he had debt he came with no dependents and you say you had kids, so it kind of even things up a bit more - especially given the fact he was only 35 and had decades of working years left. Let alone the large sum he is due to inherit. Whereas this situation is completely imbalanced and he’s 60.

If he was truly a good man do you think he would be talking to OP about prenups and marriage ten months given their contrasting situations? It’s all very well saying if he’s a good man go ahead but the issue is no one thinks these men are bad until it’s too late and they’ve financially drained them.

I've watched enough of those Netflix programmes to say I do agree with you.

So where did this ‘story’ miraculously appear from in the last 24hrs to full in huge details of ‘where his money went’ Supposedly he ‘was just living life’ - also doesn’t add up because you said he had proceeds from the sale of his first marital home and then the ex wife was married again within a couple of years?

Jackanory!

Speaking of netflix Has anyone watched the one recently added called manhunt?

I started watching it but had to turn it off as the woman was so daft. Loaning multiple large sums of 50K and more to a man who claimed he was a Rothschild but had his money tied up in a Swiss bank. It took his family telling her he was a fraudster to wake up. But she had already had his child and squandered her divorce settlement by then. Her poor children.

OP has already said what she wants is for people to tell her it's cool, love is worth it. She's really in it deep and I hope she can keep her head on straight here.

@Lifeislove made some really excellent points in her post about feeling adrift after being in a long marriage and then suddenly not.

He was pushing for a "future" and all in and bringing up marriage when they were a mere 6 months in. Talk about trying to rush a recent divorced woman who has kids that also need time and care to adjust to the family split. That's coming close to predatory for me.

Of course he's charming. Now that he's met a woman who can provide a lifestyle of comfortable home, dinners out, holidays, he likes that picture.

He's trying to rush a future together when you've said you are going to live alone in your house with your kids when you sell your current place. He's pushing your boundaries. He thinks you're vulnerable and you are, you said you met when he "rescued" you in a bar.

There's no real care for your kids here on his part. Most people know not to rush a relationship to move in and marriage after a recent split with kids involved.

The "found" pension just when she was about to give him the boot, that's wild.

There's a mindset and pattern here and when you've encountered it, it's very recognizable. So, so many red flags.

I don’t get why he would bail his sister out ensuring she had a roof over his head ultimately leading to him not having a roof over his head . Surely to goodness you’d only help out if you were financially able to.

Especially as he seems to have prioritised providing the roof over her head - than that of his OWN DCs who according to him have the living trauma of a mentally unstable mother and a new step dad in the picture? 👀

Also the sister surely would have received an equivalent £80k inheritance (pretty substantial 20 years ago?) - so why did she need bailing out more than his own DCs?

More holes than a Swiss cheese in this Jackanory!

That’s quite the drip feed!

As for ‘he loves me with all his heart’: you can’t know that.

He's playing you like a fiddle OP. Why the hell is he talking about pre-nups when you are only 10 months in?

There will be some sort of crisis, he'll move in and there'll never be a good point for him to move out.

I know a woman in her late 70s in a miserable relationship but if she were to end it her partner would be destitute, or so she feels, in reality he would be on benefits and possibly in over 55 yo housing. But she can't bear to do this to him and is utterly trapped. Don't let that happen to you