Just found out the person I am seeing has absolutely no assets or pension!

[Jemjemima]

I recently had an amicable separation from my husband about a year and a half ago and have been seeing a new partner for about 6 months. This person really is a wonderful man and I haven’t felt this comfortable with anyone for a very long time. He is attentive, caring and has been very supportive. I was very Frank from the start that I didn’t know which direction I was heading and that I wanted to do the right thing all ‘round to make the separation as calm and respectful as possible for my 2 teenage children. He was happy to offer support and we have had some great times together. I had noticed he had quite a few credit cards, rented a flat and had a lease car. I am financially solvent and have worked all my life and planned hard but I am not interested in grand jestures or posh nights out. I always pick up the bill every other meal, treat us to a weekend away etc, but I have noticed on occasion his cards get rejected. I have asked him about it and he just says it’s all fine. I have started to have feelings for this man but my gut is saying no! I have since discover that he is in £30k worth of debt, no assets and no pension. He had a good job and was earning £70k but was always struggling a bit. He is 59 and has recently been made redundant and his employment and insurance stops paying in September. My daughter goes to uni in about 16 months for 5 years and so I know I will have to be careful with my money, this I had planned for. I will soon be living alone once the house has sold and will need to be cautious but I hate myself for wanting to end this relationship because of his lack of any stability. He has actually been fighting for unfair dismissal and has said he will have a payout soon and that will be his pension but it will just not be enough and he has some cavalier ideas for his money! I want to end the relationship but I feel so guilty. I am not motivated by money in the slightest. He is currently trying to keep the relationship going but I want to run! I hate to be practical when love is involved!

People do have different circumstances unfortunately due to circumstances beyond their control but this man is in a well paying job or was ...

So there is something missing
Card payments rejected but he's still going out for meals, weekends away op paying of course lease car, flowers etc
Either he's an overspending, drugs, alcohol, gambling.
He's immature to not take responsibility
He is not a nice man!
Op he will drag you down - once the emotional ties are formed then he will get his foot over the threshold, can you imagine saying no then?

@baileys6904 Clearly you are not like this man and have sorted yourself out

its a bit unfair to op to say give him a chance etc as clearly he is a walking red flag, immature and probably has way more debt than he's letting on
Someone like you who has been financially disadvantaged by an ex and worked up out of it is very very different to this man who is still spending, cards declined, lying to Op, suddenly finding pensions and the best bit , he's going to get a big pay off to sort it all out -highly unlikely , it will be a few £ at best

Op please stop romanticising this situation or this will be your life in a few years, going to the supermarket hoping your card isn't declined as he has spent it all

I will never let this be my life. I’ve worked hard, no mortgage, 2 pensions, a portfolio and savings. I have had to be hard in the past and with this situation nothing has actually impacted me financially. We went away last week (it was lovely - don’t shoot me - I felt safe and seen and while we’re at it, he’s great in bed! So let’s all have a bit of a laugh at that and I’ll wait for the tirade! Give me a break - I hadn’t been touched for 6 years!) and he paid half of everything.

You began this thread wanting to run away and leave him and as the thread has gone on you’ve convinced yourself that ‘ love ‘ is enough for you , if that’s what it is and not just infatuation . My good friend took up with a wrongun after her marriage break up and it was to prove to herself that she could still be desirable and attract another man . Your chap mentions a payout from wrongful dismissal which is really hard to prove usually , be careful he doesn’t ask for money ‘ until it comes through ‘ My friends wrongun asked for money in lieu of an inheritance . Luckily she had the wherewithal to see what was going on before she lost any . It makes absolute sense for a man with nothing to target a wealthy woman with assets otherwise what else have they got .

IME wrongful dismissal costs significantly to being a tribunal. The ROI may not be good.

What specifically has he said is the reason he is asset less and in significant debt at his age in a high paying career?

I think you should end it but it's hard because it seems callous. It isn't. You really need someone financially solvent which he isn't. Even if he wasn't dependent on you (don't marry or live with him) he won't be able to keep up with you or have the same lifestyle so it will start to grate. Sorry

How is he going on holiday, buying flowers, hosting a friend, going to the gym and buying expensive supplements when he's got 10s of thousands of £s of debt plus credit card debt to pay off? How is he even getting around? Did he buy a new car to replace his lease?

He is still spending freely at a time when he should be belt tightening and cutting his expenses to the bone.

You know, his credit card plan to just not pay until they write off his debt and sell it over to an agency so he can pay it off at a reduced sum means he's cool with taking money from the company and not paying it back. He's unethical. How do you square that with a beautiful soul?

You two have no future without your money involved. That's why he's trying to make plans and promising a prenup, which you know implies marriage. You can't fix this.

You're a single mom to 2 teens and I know from experience that's a difficult place to be. I hope you can continue to keep them front and center.

I know I'm a bit an outlier on this thread but I could have written so many of your posts about the feelings and emotions involved.

I have reread all your posts and now remember why I posted on your thread back in June. I found it so helpful reading all the replies / opinions and could relate them to my own situation at the time.
Advice that doesn't have any skin in the game and detached from the emotions.

I too divorced after a very long marriage (37) years age 59. I truly felt my self esteem, my sense of self and my sexuality were all crushed beyond repair.
A year after I met The One quite randomly and the attraction was off the scale. I'd never experienced anything like it. It was a LDR.
As I said we had different issues (that didn't bother him as I fitted perfectly into how he wanted his life to be much like yours) but, for me after about a year, the issues were really bothering me.
I'd shove the concerns and associated feelings to the back of my mind as every meet up was just fabulous. Like you the physical side was off the scale, great company, no arguing or niggles and so on.
I honestly felt reborn.
After 24 months (thus summer) the love goggles cleared a bit and I saw more clearly the barriers to carrying it forward into the future but they were as they were.

At the point I read your thread I was still in deep but at our age OP, relationships develop with different aims/ ambitions.

It's just not the same as being 20 something and building a whole life together. It's about being together with all his history and current life (his being insecure financially) and yours (still having some years of supporting adult children through education etc)
and the mistake I think I made was seeing it through my 20 something eyes.
The initial lust, fun and togetherness bonding us to then move us forward to build a future life together.

These conversations generally come to a head at around 24-36 months (when the initial fizz fades and grows to something else) and then that's crunch time.
It's also the point when the little annoyances or small differences (that crop up over the months) grow and can be seen a lot more clearly.

That's why I call your partner Mr Right for Now. You've not even hit the first year yet I don't think.

That's why my advice stands (go with the flow for now) as it's too soon to be doing any blending of finances or living together and I feel, as we're older, there's no need to either. Each person is an individual financially and you come together for the top 20% of fizz that the relationship currently provides.

Whilst there's a lot on MN about declining libido around menopause very little is written here about 'Crone Age' (60) and I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't experienced it myself (and I wouldn't have had the sexual awakening with my XH as he'd destroyed any insatiable desire I had for him physically through his behaviours over the decades).
My body literally worked like a 21 yr olds again. On every level.

I miss him and what we had together terribly and doubt I'll find that emotional and physical compatibility again at my age (62) but I could no longer tolerate the compromises I had to make to sustain it.

And yes, he was devastated and cried and you wrote you don't want to cause someone hurt but you can't bend and compromise yourself to avoid upsetting someone in the future.
I'll get over mine in time as it's still raw but I'm glad the post divorce therapy lessons I learnt really came into play in my situation.

You may get to that point or decide your benefit in the relationship (lovely partner to live life with) is worth the cost (being the main financial supporter of the pair of you which may cause some resentment and affect your children's inheritance etc).

Reframing how you see your future together could be the way forward for now.
He knows he's lacking but he still has 7 years official working life to show you what he can achieve if wants to.

In some ways I wouldn't even discuss it with him, just watch and see. That will tell you more when you come out of the limerant lovely stage in a year or 2's time.

I ll post later in more detail if you like as I have a close friend who was in a similar situation to you and they're now married. And I see the good bits and bad. She has her own 'cost / benefit analysis' on the relationship but I do know she has to crush a lot of 'pissed off ' feelings sometimes. And those feelings do affect desire and can cause disagreements.

This is a really great post above from Life.
It can be very hard to fathom the work a man like this will happily invest in you to appear perfect.

That is their profession!
They are often much loved by family, and friends because they have traded on it for decades.
Be charming, lovable and great fun and people will fondly overlook the fact that you never quite pay your way.

He is paying his way initially as he sees the OP as a long term investment, his pension.

Of course the sex is great, he trades on it.

Having a fling with such a man is not the problem, there is absolutely nothing wrong with gifting yourself a great post divorce refresher.

The thing is not to become attached, to feel invested and then responsible for him.

You may not like the nurse with a purse label but that is well what you could be.

None of us know what the future holds and ill health can rear its ugly head very suddenly when your 60's arrive.

It is not easy to walk away from someone needing caring duties, even moreso when they are financially compromised.

My friends husband had an affair after 35 years of marriage and although he had been always a rather selfish man, she wouldn't have divorced him.
Him dumping her and divorcing her was shocking. However 2 years post divorce he had a life changing illness, and she was so grateful that they were history, and she could so firmly refuse to be in any way involved with his future. Her sons/ his family, would have loved to have involved her but she held very firm.
She has thrived post divorce, not least having seen how quickly things can change.

Protect your heart as much as your pocket.

@Burntlemon thank you.
I actually doubt he's 'acting' in love. He's probably as infatuated and as happy as OP and it strikes me that he appears to have engaged in conversations about finances quite candidly. Basically he's been honest and let @Jemjemima know he's got sweet FA (actually minus FA as has debt....which could be more than he says).
I had the similar type of honesty from my lover (as that's what he was, not a partner) on the barriers that affected me but honesty about something and actually addressing it are 2 different things.

But we underestimate how powerful these types of 'energy connections' can be. The whole 'soulmate fantasy. Our bodies and emotions dominate and then our brains, in a moment of pause start thinking and working stuff out. I do wonder if those us who have suffered recent painful rejection are more susceptible to it. But could be just chance.

My red flag in this is his willingness to say he'd do a Pre Nup and they're only 10 months in? If anything, he's the absolute winner in the situation (exactly how my x lover was) as he's dating someone he adores, gets on with and who's financially able to support him fully from the moment they live together. He won't have to worry about scrimping away in a rented place once he can no longer work.

It's said many times on MN about the ability to be content living solo for a decent length of time ( at least a few years in my view) after the breakup of a relationship esp a 25 year one. I was so used to being part of a couple it felt strange. The first year I was in a deep trauma and finding my way and he just came into my life like a saviour almost.

He helped me 'heal' in so many ways but I also learnt that vulnerable people can be manipulated without even knowing it.

That's why I think this relationship will progress and the mask slips eventually and what they really want / or can give in my situation, shows up in brief moments later.
And we then see it. Doesn't stop it hurting and he may be genuine 100% (just been unlucky with money as some have said) but I don't think so.
OP is in this with her eyes wide open (unlike me with mine!) as she's already questioning how it can work longer term.

Life's too short, enjoy dating him and have fun. Live separately and keep finances separate.

That is exactly what I thought, he sounds like a decent enough chap and presumably able to pay his way when going somewhere with you. He's not after you for your money.

Lack of assets surely only matters if you want to pool resources and set up home together.

Enjoy the relationship for what it is, it sounds pretty good.

@Swimminginthedeepbluesky People do have different circumstances unfortunately due to circumstances beyond their control but this man is in a well paying job or was ...
So there is something missing
Card payments rejected but he's still going out for meals, weekends away op paying of course lease car, flowers etc
Either he's an overspending, drugs, alcohol, gambling.
He's immature to not take responsibility
He is not a nice man!
Op he will drag you down - once the emotional ties are formed then he will get his foot over the threshold, can you imagine saying no then?

There are numerous reasons why someone in a well paying job may have poor savings or no assets, and the fact that you think it could only be due to overspending, drugs, alcohol, or gambling would show that you don't really have the empathy or compassion to understand other people, which is a hallmark of immaturity.

Other reasons why someone in a high paying job may not have much money:

• Only recently promoted to a high paying position after years of being in a low paying position.
• Years of unemployment following redundancy, or collapse of a business they owned.
• Having to take time off work to look after family who are unwell.
• Having to take time off work due to being unwell.
• Did not receive an education about savings, pensions, and finances (most people don't).
• Money lost to fraud or scammers.
• Money lost due to expensive legal action, or issues with a property.

etc...

By the way, addiction to drugs, alcohol, and gambling are medical issues and should be treated as such.

Agreed.
After years, often decades in a stressful, disappointing marriage that may have been long sexually dead, to have suddenly rediscovered your mojo is addictive as crack!
Totally understandable, but still no reason to throw financial due diligence to the wind!

Enjoy the sex for sure, but keep a clear head about you, just like men do in similar circumstances.

But why hasn’t the OP explained this? I have asked repeatedly how he explains his predicament

@shuggles

Read again

People do have different circumstances unfortunately due to circumstances beyond their control

I acknowledged that shit happens and ruins people's finances through no fault of their own however this man shows no signs this has happened, has not explained to the Op

From the Op
but his answer is, he just spent it on life!

Trying reading the thread before you make silly comments

No idea why the wrong person was quoted there

@Swimminginthedeepbluesky Read again
People do have different circumstances unfortunately due to circumstances beyond their control
I acknowledged that shit happens and ruins people's finances through no fault of their own however this man shows no signs this has happened, has not explained to the Op

Yes, I read that.

But then immediately after that, you said:

So there is something missing
Card payments rejected but he's still going out for meals, weekends away op paying of course lease car, flowers etc
Either he's an overspending, drugs, alcohol, gambling.
He's immature to not take responsibility
He is not a nice man!

So your comment taken as a whole indicated that you do not have an understanding of the circumstances that people can find themselves in.

Not if you have actually read the whole thread and the Op stating she had already discussed it with him and he replied he just spent it.
Not only spent it but overspent to the tune of 30K -he says, it may be more.
It was actually to another poster who was left in financial ruin by their ex partner.
That's the context of my reply

He's a higher earner but a high spender or worse , he has some kind of addiction that he hasn't told Op about .

OP, I get the being touched thing, if you have been without that type of physical affection and lust for years and years, then it is intoxicating.

That's what this is though, lust goggles and feeling cared for.

I am your age, and I made my mind up I would not date anyone with significantly fewer assets than myself (so mostly paid off mortgage, house, some pension, a little money to spend on living life).

The reasons are these:

1. If someone hasn't cracked money by 60, they aren't going to. If they were 45 or even 50, I could understand they might make good on this, but at 60, it's all downhill really in terms of ramping up earning power, especially as he has no plausible explanation to how he's 30k in debt.
2. He's still spending money! He's paying his way right now with fake non-existent money to make you feel like this is the life you are going to have with him, but already the credit cards are declining and you soon will be picking up 2/3rds of the tab, as you are a lovely person and you know he's skint, and then it will be pretty much all of it.
3. He's already talking prenups and marriage. If he was financially stable, he'd be very unlikely to be having this conversation after 10 months. Money is pushing the marriage thing along although you can't see this.
4. All the money you spend on compensating for his lack of money is money you could be putting into your children's deposit for a house and your own pension.
5. Care costs will loom. Easy to think they won't, but many people around me at early 60's are now too ill to work full-time or are thinking about retirement (and what's he going to retire on)? I want someone long-term, to build a life with, and if you marry, your assets will be taken into account for care costs as part of the family.
6. I want to do nice things, holidays, trips away, not anything extravagant, also buy in help like cleaning and decent food, not be scrimping and saving into old age.

I have been on dates with men like this and they are just drifters, they tend to drift from woman to woman, sometimes the women have children, they build a life with that one, then that one gets fed up with the situation of them never having any money, and they shift onto the next one. My relative had one like this later in life and surprise surprise, he didn't pay a penny over the years and had to be dragged out once the sex life dwindled. Not for me, and I'm surprised it's for you, sex or no sex.

Just re-read your earlier posts and it’s worse than I thought - not only has he no assets, pension, savings, a home and debt …. he has also spunked an £80k inheritance and the proceeds (undisclosed amount) from the sale of his marital home following divorce 20 years ago….

What was he doing then - why was it not a priority to put a roof over his young children’s heads with his high wages, chunky inheritance and house profits - how has he spunked all that AND run up so much debt?

He's playing the long game. It's only been a few months so it's worth him hanging around. You can be a sucker if you want to OP but at least you can say you went into it with your eyes wide open.

Yes, and it’s also not going to be enough to be any sort of pension pot! If he’s lucky, he might have some left over once he’s cleared his £30k debt (which I’m guessing is growing fast!).

OP. You seem to be in a completely different financial situation, which seems extremely good given you’ve recently had a divorce. Despite the good times you’re having with him, I fear it’s going to end in tears…

Some of your comments directed to the majority of posters seem a bit goady, OP. ‘So shoot me’, ‘bring on the tirade’ and so on.

’Having fun’ dating, long term, doesn’t seem it’d work well for you from what you’ve said.

I have several friends who (when younger) said they’d ‘just have fun’ with boyfriends they had doubts about, then moved in or married, turning out badly for my friends financially and emotionally. The men were all doing less well in terms of jobs and money - for better reasons than your boyfriend has. They were loving, attentive and so on for several years, but were ultimately losers (different reasons) and after a time stopped being nice.

I bet if you said you wouldn’t live with him until after many years of dating, to prioritise yourself and your DC financially, you wouldn’t see him for dust! Easy way to find out.

He’s probably in love, AND strongly motivated for material reasons to do all he can to stay in a serious relationship, cohabit and ideally marry a woman much wealthier than he is.

There seem some red flags about him, in addition to his precarious situation with money, debt, housing and work.

Spending money he doesn’t have to date you.

Not seriously job seeking?

Talking about marriage/future etc (and even pre-nups! Which don’t have legal weight) after only a short time of dating and when your separation / divorce is fairly recent.

Love bombing, ramping up after you expressed your doubts.

Poor explanation for his situation - his response to his divorce long ago and having ‘spent it on life’.

Did he properly financially support his DC after his ex remarried?

Cohabitation (without marriage) could be risky for your finances, credit status etc and would likely lead to you subsidising him, reducing your resources for yourself and DC, at best.

No assets and hardly any savings is one thing. That could be partly down to circumstances, bad luck etc. But £30k of debt is completely different (especially when he inherited £80k a few years ago!) and shows a reckless attitude to money that I would not be able to get on board with.

Great posts
@Frequentlyincorrectbut and @Kweenbeee

It is worse than we thought

He has spent his 70K salary, proceeds of property sale, 80K inheritance and has still racked up 30K debts
Not on a house or a car -rents and leases
He doesnt appear to have anything to show for it which points to another issue.

Plus all the red flag behaviours

Crikey it would bring me out in a cold sweat being around someone like this, let alone in a relationship with them.