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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Poetry gift from his colleague that he didn't tell me about

205 replies

poetryslam · 05/06/2025 11:22

I can't really discuss this with anyone in real life so trying here to see if I'm overreacting and get some advice on how to proceed. I have a new baby and a DD who is 2.5. DH and I have a happy marriage (I thought) if a little distracted with children at this moment in life. Both work demanding jobs though I am on mat leave.
I finished my book today and noticed a book of poetry on the shelf that I hadn't read. Love the poet so picked it up and a postcard fell out. It was from his favourite museum in Paris, and on the back had a note for his most recent birthday, stating that he had big changes ahead, and signed off by colleague with an x. I flipped through the book and a photo of them with another couple was holding a page - probably from a work trip dinner. The poem was about seizing the present moment (future and past are non existent, must seize the now).
I felt sick. It's not sexual or anything but it's somehow worse because it felt so intimate and he has never mentioned it.
I know they are friends and see each other for runs every once in a while. We have socialised with her and her husband before, though not since our eldest was born.
I took a photo, put it back on the shelf and I haven't mentioned it.
I feel sick, and can't eat. I am breastfeeding a newborn and trying to look after a toddler and can't stop thinking about it.
It's bad, right? I am tempted to snoop further but scared of what I'll find.

OP posts:
MummytoE · 09/06/2025 20:14

Did it not cross a physical line because he didn't want it to or because the opportunity never arose? An emotional affair is just as bad in my mind. I'm so angry on your behalf that you need to deal with the crap

Missj25 · 09/06/2025 20:22

poetryslam · 09/06/2025 20:04

He has said he will organise therapy for both of us and himself individually. He has written to her to cut all contact and claims he will never see or speak to her again (he is actually moving jobs anyway, so this may be feasible). He is sort of doing the right things, but I just don't trust him anymore.

OP , I personally think there is a lot of hope for your marriage..
You saw the messages , you said yourself nothing of a sexual nature , obviously their friendship crossed a line …
The fact your husband is also moving jobs …

Gundogday · 09/06/2025 20:28

And yet he didn’t want to end this relationship until he was found out, even though his wife was going through major life events. Ie. The births of his children, even though he knew it was wrong.

Rapunzle · 09/06/2025 20:39

At least he’s communicating with you OP altho it’s debatable how much of it is true & how much is grovelling/telling you want he thinks you want to hear to put him in as least bad light as possible. I don’t know about therapy. Therapy for what? For him to not be such a feckless, disingenuous & selfish prick? Plus if the trust still proves difficult to overcome after therapy (as it so often invariably does) it’s easy for it to be used in the gaslighting that generally follows of “I don’t know what more I can do I even went to therapy about it” / “we went over this in therapy you’ve got to let it go” type BS. . What strikes me is how passive he is presenting himself in all of this. As though he just responded to her overtures & in doing so is minimising his role & responsibility in what has been really duplicitous & hurtful behaviour. Strength & resolve to you OP whatever you decide.

NameChangedOfc · 09/06/2025 21:04

I'm sorry you're going through this 🙏💐

GiantSaucepan · 09/06/2025 21:13

What kind of ‘emotional weight’ was he sharing with her? Was it deeply inappropriate—like personal secrets, private feelings, or things that should have been reserved for you as his wife? Or was it more that you felt he showed more care, interest, or emotional investment in her than he was showing you at the time?

I think that distinction matters. From what you’ve described, it sounds like she was putting just as much, if not more effort into maintaining his attention. That doesn’t excuse his choices at all, but if it was an ego boost and a source of easy, uncomplicated attention for him, I can see how the situation might have spiraled, especially if it started gradually, at a time when your focus was (understandably) on your baby and family.

But if he was sharing more of himself with her than with you—if he disclosed intimate details about his life or shared things he wasn’t sharing with you, or building a connection rooted in dissatisfaction with your relationship—then that’s a different level of betrayal.
In that case:
a) it’s more likely the relationship also became physical, and
b) it represents a much more serious breach of trust and respect, which would be far harder to come back from.

The former, while still hurtful, may say more about how he handled life changes, attention from another woman, and the challenges of adjusting to a growing family. It may point to a need for validation or connection at a time when your emotional energy was understandably directed elsewhere. It also sounds like she saw an opportunity and stepped into a role that used to be yours, back when you two were more carefree—before the responsibilities of parenthood and he failed to police that.

That doesn’t make any of it okay. But it would be worth exploring in therapy around how he invests in you and your family going forward, and how to protect those boundaries. If both of you are willing to do the hard work, there might be something to rebuild, even if it takes time.

Rebuilding trust is another matter entirely though. For that to happen, I think you need to feel you’ve had full honesty and transparency from him—even if that means there are more hard truths to discover and more painful revelations. Your ability to trust him will come from sustained, consistent actions over time—his honesty, his willingness to be accountable, and his openness every single day.

How he ended things with her matters too. Did he make it clear she was not important, and that you are? Or did he blame the ending on your jealousy or discomfort? Those kinds of details really matter, because they give insight into whether he’s still keeping a door open to her in some way.

Changing jobs is a positive step. Offering full transparency—messages, bank statements, whatever you need (even if you never check them)—can be part of rebuilding safety. Him telling his family can also show he’s taking real ownership.

Having a young family is so hard. You’re hormonal, exhausted, and carrying a huge mental and emotional load. Trying to do couples therapy now, with a new baby, is an enormous ask. So take it one day at a time.

I hope in time that this can either help you grow stronger together—or allow you to walk away knowing you made the right choice for yourself and your family.

(gosh, sorry that was an essay, well done if you get this far @poetryslam !)

wrongthinker · 09/06/2025 21:32

What an absolutely cruel betrayal of your trust and love. I don't think I could forgive him.

Also I'm sorry but it's highly unlikely that they haven't had sex.

chunkybear · 09/06/2025 23:10

I think some people love the thrill of the chase /game, you've got to understand if this is him or not - good luck

MsDogLady · 10/06/2025 02:29

@poetryslam, your H has been giving to OW what belongs to you. In Not Just Friends, Dr. Shirley Glass explores this dynamic and its destructive ramifications — when one partner allows boundaries to blur with a third party and channels his/her emotional resources away from the primary relationship and into the new person. Emotional infidelity is a gutting, abusive betrayal.

H and OW clearly share deep emotional chemistry. The lengthy duration of his agenda to dupe you points to his addiction to the gratification gained by providing her with his attention, cherishment, respect, intimacy, understanding, and caring support - and of receiving the same from her. They also share a mutual attraction which has propelled this EA through the years.

… he claims that he has a problem with protecting the feelings of the people who are least important.

I call bullshit. He is rating OW as ‘least important’ when he has chosen to prioritize her and their affair for years, putting her first before you and his babies. He is not coming clean about his true feelings for her. He is being disingenuous and manipulative (1) by downplaying her significance in his life and (2) by pretending to be clueless as to why he has spent years committing emotional adultery, lying, having secret dates, and robbing your agency and choices, plus risking your/your babies’ health if this has actually been a PA. He is a very poor candidate for an authentic reconciliation.

@poetryslam, taking space from him and confiding in trusted friends/family are wise choices as you navigate this trauma. You may want to consider accessing IC to help you move through the grieving process and gain clarity as you make decisions.

I agree that H needs to line up and invest in his own IC to get to the root of his heinous selfishness and entitlement. However, your participating in CC with him, especially at this point, would be a mistake in my view. The marriage did not cause him to cheat and is not responsible for his unethical, destructive choices. Also, CC is not recommended when one party is a long-term manipulator, as there is a likelihood that he will manipulate the sessions.

Thinking of you and your little girls and sending positive thoughts your way.

TooSquaretobehip · 10/06/2025 02:47

Sorry, I don't buy that it went on for years and didn't once turn physical. If that's true, then I'm the Pope. They have had sex at least once. That's a given. He's still lying to you and hiding the extent of this. No way does it go on for years and not once have sex. No...way. I think you know it too.

SallyDraperGetInHere · 10/06/2025 03:30

Upset for you, but not surprised. I’ve been there. This is a time for you to get some space and think about what your future might look like. And when you have young babies to feed and care for, time and space are sadly lacking. It’s very very difficult to navigate. Every strength and peace to you.

upandleftthenright · 10/06/2025 04:49

Im so sorry this has happened. Shocking to read it. I’d give counselling a go to buy you time to come to terms with this and be settled on your position and any actions, either way.

Alittlemoreconversationplease · 10/06/2025 06:36

I feel absolutely livid for you reading your updates op.

Sorry to say it but that particular line about him *“protecting the feelings of the people who are least important (ridiculous as he's not a passenger in this)•”

reminded me of that Prince Andrew line about him being “too honourable” a friend to break off his association with Epstein over the phone.

In other words it shows zero sensitivity (what about protecting his wife and children’s feelings?) zero self awareness or sincere remorse or any true acceptance of his own wrongdoing. As you say in that line he is trying to offload responsibility.

He is pleading and arranging therapy now because you found out! Why do you need therapy op? You do not! Not yet anyway! And it’s far too soon to start working on repair when he is STILL making up excuses for his behaviour.

That “protecting” line alone, where he is still trying to make himself appear like the good guy, would have me asking him to leave the house.

He has to do better than that if he wants true reconciliation. The fact that he can stand there and spin you that line after such a long lasting betrayal is very telling I’m
afraid and not in a good way,

I’m really glad that you have told a few people in rl op 💐 and you have a bit of support. Don’t be rushed in to making any accommodations for him right now that you are uncertain about. You are within your rights to ask for a complete break,

teenmaw · 10/06/2025 08:03

Op I agree with pp, do not agree to couples counselling. Most of them are in no way competent enough to recognise emotional abuse going on right in front of them and end up unwittingly complicit. Worst experience of my life. I didn’t need bloody counselling I needed rid of my piece of shit husband. He needs counselling op, you may need help to process all this but if you have a good support network you can do that yourself. Don’t be sucked in by any bullshit or attempts to project any of this onto you. You’re a fab wife and mum, this is not your fault in any way.

WakingUpToReality · 11/06/2025 10:03

He claims it was a friendship that got out of hand and that he has a problem with protecting the feelings of the people who are least important

Protecting her feelings? That’s how he is selling it? Wow he’s actually so chivalrous? That statement/excuse alone would really bother me.

MsDogLady · 12/06/2025 15:12

@poetryslam, I’ve been thinking of you. How are things going now?

poetryslam · 12/06/2025 16:58

@MsDogLady I'm sort of numb, thank you for asking. He's offered unfettered access to all devices, accounts, bank accounts etc in perpetuity and is trying to get me to agree to a six week hold before making any big decisions. I just don't know how I can ever trust him. I am more convinced from what I've seen that it didn't cross a physical line, but he persistently lied or told half truths to cover up spending time with her. Basically after we had a conversation about cooling it with her, he just carried on but started lying instead. He's the father of my kids and I need to think about that but I just feel heartbroken

OP posts:
Rapunzle · 12/06/2025 17:31

Feel for you OP. Especially as he’s playing the perfect husband who has been unfaithful (emotionally &/or physically) & offering you total transparency & access to all his private accounts etc. For ever. In a way that makes it harder for you to think objectively about it. He’s clearly trying to say it’s not as bad as it looks & is giving you the chance to look & see for yourself. But I assume he’s deleted all their private conversations & contact so there won’t be much to see? And tellingly he did keep in your family home, on your own shelf, this incredibly hurtful & intimate gift with a personal message from her in it. So don’t be fooled by the open book nothing to see here take that he’s presenting. He seems to think & is trying to convince you that emotional infidelity is not as bad as physical. That in itself & the minimising of emotional intimacy with another woman over so many years means it’s not at all how he’s presenting it to be. So don’t be fooled! But not easy to navigate as the DF to your DC & DH of so long. How would he feel were you to have been doing the same I wonder? I would want to have honest conversations about her & if he wasn’t with you would he want to be with her? Although I doubt he’ll be honest or you will never truly know. Really really tough.

wrongthinker · 12/06/2025 17:36

poetryslam · 12/06/2025 16:58

@MsDogLady I'm sort of numb, thank you for asking. He's offered unfettered access to all devices, accounts, bank accounts etc in perpetuity and is trying to get me to agree to a six week hold before making any big decisions. I just don't know how I can ever trust him. I am more convinced from what I've seen that it didn't cross a physical line, but he persistently lied or told half truths to cover up spending time with her. Basically after we had a conversation about cooling it with her, he just carried on but started lying instead. He's the father of my kids and I need to think about that but I just feel heartbroken

God. What a deeply cruel betrayal.

Trust is so hard to rebuild once it's broken. Now you know what he's capable of, how calmly he lied and betrayed.

Honestly I doubt that you have the full story. No way they haven't been physical after years of cheating together. Not that it makes it any worse, except for the fact that he's probably still lying to you.

How does he see this 6 weeks panning out? Is this how long he can stay away from OW for? How long he thinks it'll take you to forget it?

Profpudding · 12/06/2025 17:38

teenmaw · 10/06/2025 08:03

Op I agree with pp, do not agree to couples counselling. Most of them are in no way competent enough to recognise emotional abuse going on right in front of them and end up unwittingly complicit. Worst experience of my life. I didn’t need bloody counselling I needed rid of my piece of shit husband. He needs counselling op, you may need help to process all this but if you have a good support network you can do that yourself. Don’t be sucked in by any bullshit or attempts to project any of this onto you. You’re a fab wife and mum, this is not your fault in any way.

I’m so sorry this turned out the way it did but yes I completely agree with teenmaw do not bother with counselling.

I spent hundreds and I remember at the time my friend telling me that you should just go to the hairdressers and then down the pub with the money it would be far better spent.

MissDoubleU · 12/06/2025 17:43

Feels like it would almost hurt less if he was sleeping with her. He lied to you to cover his tracks to protect the deep emotional connection he shared with the OW. It wasn’t a fling. It was sacred. Book of poetry sacred.

No amount of crying and begging could make me trust this man again.

OchreRaven · 12/06/2025 17:45

@poetryslam Why would he want to live with the guilt of lying to you and hiding it on a daily basis? What did he get from it that he couldn’t have gotten from you? I think therapy is a good idea for him initially. He needs to be able to answer those questions for himself before you even try to have the conversation together.

Are you staying in the same house?

Has she tried to make contact?

Does it look like he’s deleted messages or are the messages all there for you to see?

It’s the lying and hiding it that is the hardest to forgive. He knew you wouldn’t be ok with it (rightly). He even acknowledged it was wrong when you first asked him to cool it, and that wasn’t a wake up call.

I do think you shouldn’t make any permanent decisions in the next few months but asking him to move out while you process it, is fair.

If he really wants to make amends then you could always ask for a huge show of faith. Ask him to put the house in your name with a post nuptial agreement. That way if he ever does anything like this again you walk away with the house.

Profpudding · 12/06/2025 17:52

Sorry, I’m gonna shut up after I’ve said this but, I’ve always said the physical side of it and the sex side of it is the least important when they have affairs or betray you. Most men would fuck anything so I don’t particularly take it as a insult or a compliment that a man would be willing to sleep with you or stay faithful to you.

It is the emotional side of it that so hurtful. And I knew I would never get over it.
My ex had two or three physical affairs that I knew of and to be honest I didn’t really care.
But then once he started arranging Babysitter to look after my kids so that he could go and spend time with another woman. Or started describing me in derogatory terms and our relationship in a similar manner that was it.

TwoTuesday · 12/06/2025 18:19

How awful for you. Don't let him pressure you into deciding/ not deciding anything yet.
It occurred to me that he wanted to get caught so he'd have to stop before it went any further with her? Maybe he does deserve a chance, maybe not.

AnonAnonmystery · 12/06/2025 18:33

I think in all of this he doesn’t understand how upsetting and traumatic this is for you. On so many levels.