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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Annulling marriage as spouse is trans?

1000 replies

confusedpasty · 24/05/2025 19:09

Hi everyone,

I got married 3 months ago. I have been with my now husband for 7 years and prior to the wedding, we honestly had a fantastic relationship. We also have a 14 month old boy. We are best friends and have shared everything together and talked about having more children after the wedding.

Intimacy has trailed off a bit since our baby was born, mostly on my part actually as I haven’t felt in the mood much, but I guess from his side too. Anyway, I thought this was just a phase due to our circumstances and was excited for the wedding.

Slight relevant background - my husband has always been more ‘feminine’ if you can call it that, as in interested in clothes and hair and underwear etc. No problem, loved him for who he was and we got on great.

Fast forward to after the wedding - no sex despite me trying and trying. 12 weeks have now passed since our wedding so I finally sat him down last night and asked what’s going on. He told me that he feels ashamed to admit it, but that deep down he feels he is transgender and his true feelings are that he identifies as a woman and that sex now feels disgusting to him as he’s not behaving like his true self?

Lots of crying and emotion followed - he begged me to support him and stay if he chooses to transition publicly, I feel that I cannot do this. I am torn. He has gone to stay with his mum for a few days whilst I process this.

I know this is a bit of a niche situation, but has anyone out there faced a similar situation? I am considering applying for an annulment, I think this would be fair on the grounds we haven’t consummated the marriage? Husband says he would contest this. I am so, so confused and haven’t yet told anyone in real life.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
Zita60 · 25/05/2025 19:14

Pluvia · 25/05/2025 15:08

I was responding to the comment that the child would have a second mother.
I disagree that having a trans parent is a hideous state of affairs. These are the kinds of comments I referred to as transphobic in my original comment, which has attracted so much excitement!

Have you ever met any children of transitioners? I have. Three of them, all female, all brought up in households where their fathers had transitioned later in life. Suki Morys, daughter of the famed Jan/James Morris has written about what a terrible, abusive parent her father was:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11527279/Celebrated-writer-Jan-Morris-bully-hug-children-daughter-claims.html
I knew someone who went to school with Suki and whose mother knew her mother. My acquaintance and her mum were never in any doubt about the abuse of power going on in that household.

Many AGP fathers are narcissists and are jealous of their daughters' sex and resentful that the girls have what the father wants but can never have. One of my neighbours' fathers transitioned in his late 50s. He used to visit his daughter and steal her clothes. Now he's in his 80s, suffering from dementia and living in a care home. He had periods of distress when he woke up from a nap and couldn't understand why he was wearing a skirt and twinset. As a result he now wears men's trousers and other items of male clothing.

But of course, the experiences of women count for nothing. It's always got to be about the men and their feelings.

JK Rowling recently said she was contacted by a geriatric nurse who said she'd come across a number of cases where elderly transwomen with dementia couldn't understand why they were being treated as if they were female, and why their bodies had been mutilated. They did not remember having given consent for the surgery, and were terribly distressed at what had been done to them.

SnoopyPajamas · 25/05/2025 19:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I understand how overwhelming this situation must be, but I think it's important to take a step back and consider if you're being a bit selfish in your approach.

She isn't. And for you to imply this is the last thing she needs.

You're framing the annulment as a way to get out of a marriage that isn’t going the way you expected, but you're overlooking the very real emotional journey your husband is going through

No, she's realising the entire marriage is built on a false foundation. And that her husband essentially tried to trap her into staying with him, by waiting until the ink was dry on the marriage certificate to tell her about his 'emotional journey'. Knowing that it's harder to walk away from a marriage than a relationship, and that women like you will come along to act as his flying monkeys and convince her she has an obligation to stay.

His "emotional journey" is not more important than the OP's feelings. He can navigate his own transition, and make his emotional well-being his own priority. OP doesn't owe him her support on this "journey".

Sometimes the things we choose to do in life have consequences. The consequences of OP's husband 'living his truth' is that he loses his wife. A decent man would understand this, and would not put the least pressure on her to stay. He would give her everything she needs in the divorce, give her the apology she deserves for the years he has wasted of her life (and for the horrible shock he's just given her) and then he would walk away, and never let anyone say a word against her for the rest of his life.

He’s shared something deeply personal with you—something he’s likely struggled with for a long time—and instead of being there for him, you're thinking of ending things over an issue that goes beyond just a change in sexual intimacy.

Stop underplaying OP's feelings. For goodness sakes. Sexual intimacy will always ebb and flow in a marriage. That's normal and expected. It is not normal to wait until you're married and then tell your partner that actually, you want to make huge changes to your physical appearance, that will fundamentally affect their attraction to you. Oh, and also, from now on, sex will only be conducted in accordance with a particular sexual fetish. And if they don't accept these conditions, the marriage will become completely sexless.

That's not a "change in sexual intimacy". It's an irredeemable warping of their entire sexual relationship.

That's not a minor or expected issue in a marriage. And OP wasn't aware it could even be a factor when she married this man. He, on the other hand, knew it full well. How is that fair? Fuck him, and his "long struggle".

Yes, it’s hard when the person you love suddenly expresses something so radically different from what you thought was the foundation of your relationship.

It's not just "hard" and "different". It reveals the entire foundation of that relationship to be a fraud. OP has every right to feel betrayed, and every right to walk away.

If her husband was gay, would you tell her to stay and get over it? If she discovered he had used prostitutes for years, or had thousands of pounds of debt he had hidden from her, would you insist he's still the man she loved? This is no different. What her husband has hidden from her here is huge, and fundamentally alters the relationship. He is not the man she thought he was. Not the man she agreed to marry. The person she loves was a fiction.

But this is about his identity and his truth, not just about your personal comfort or the way you thought your life would unfold.

Why is it about his identity? OP had an identity too. As a heterosexual wife to a man she thought she knew. Why does her husband's personal comfort matter more than hers? Why are you shaming her for wanting the marriage she signed up for? Her husband just utterly blindsided her. Why are you so set on minimising the absolute bomb he has just dropped on her life?

It’s clear that you loved him for who he was before, and this might be an opportunity for you to love him through a very painful transformation.

Tell me you're kidding me.

She loved the man she thought he was. She has now discovered no such person exists. He pretended to be someone else. He let her marry and have a child with him, wasting years of her life where she could have had an honest relationship - with a man, like the man she thought she already had. The man she trusted.

He waited to share this side of himself, until she had made a commitment to him in ignorance. And now he's trying to guilt her into staying, instead of having the decency to set her free.

She doesn't have to "love him through it". She can love herself, and leave him.

Relationships change, sometimes in ways that are unexpected and difficult, but that doesn’t mean the commitment you made to each other should be tossed aside when things get complicated.

He hasn't lost his hair. He hasn't lost his job. He hasn't been struck by a sudden illness.

He lied. They are fundamentally incompatible. OP isn't making some frivolous choice to 'toss aside' their marriage. She's walking away from a commitment her husband secured under false pretenses. She only married him because he lied. Put whatever gloss on it you want. That's the truth.

You're focusing on your own discomfort without truly considering the weight of what your husband is going through.

Fine by me.

I realise in the world of the trans cult, we're supposed to see this a gut-wrenching decision he had no control over. That's clearly your perspective. But in the real world, OP's husband is either a closeted gay man, or, more likely, an autogynephile who has let his sexual fetish consume him, to the point where he now feels compelled to womanface full time, and drag other people into it. His wife will be expected to live in service to his fantasy, while everyone else feels sorry for him and handwaves away his abject selfishness.

I could not care less about the feelings of such a man. My compassion is all for his wife, and I'm not ashamed of that.

Till death do us part IMO. This is more about you than him.

OP signed her life away under false pretenses. The marriage contract is null and void already. Besides - the man she thought she married is about to become 'dead' to her anyway. The name she used in her wedding vows will soon be the 'deadname' of someone who never truly existed.

She owes him nothing.

As for "more about you than him" . . . oh, don't make me laugh. Much like your own post, this is all about him. His feelings, his 'journey', his expectations and desires and actions. This entire thing boils down to his self-image. A vulnerable narcissist is still a narcissist.

*

Sorry for the wall of text, everyone! But this post exemplifies so many people's attitudes to women who find themselves in this situation, and I really wanted to break down the whole thing. Maybe one day soon it'll stick, and we'll stop seeing this sort of thing aimed at women like OP.

YourSignalFadedIntoAnotherWorld · 25/05/2025 19:50

MixedFeelingsNoFeelings · 25/05/2025 15:14

"He said he wouldn’t be open to annulment as he basically feels we should stick together for better or worse! But I hope he may be willing to talk again once the dust settles a little. I don’t see how we can come back from this"

Neither do I. Interesting stretch of the idea of 'sticking together for better or worse'. So he deceived you about his true nature (and to be scrupulously fair possibly himself, though I doubt it). Then went very quickly from crying and begging to emotional blackmail.

He sounds like a conflicted person who's prepared to sacrifice your wellbeing and contentment for his. It's a sad situation for all of you, but not one of your making OP. Don't be cajoled/chivvied/flattered/gaslit into going along with it.

Yes, this. He just wants you to cover for him is all. CF.

Washingupdone · 25/05/2025 20:01

Could you try and get him to put something in a text message so that the solicitor can see what he is wanting for your future life, you to support both mentally and physically, no divorce, marriage is for life and he wants custody. It you do have messages copy them. Also copy any of monetary papers, his wages, bank loans, tax etc

GoldEagle · 25/05/2025 20:18

SnoopyPajamas · 25/05/2025 19:29

I understand how overwhelming this situation must be, but I think it's important to take a step back and consider if you're being a bit selfish in your approach.

She isn't. And for you to imply this is the last thing she needs.

You're framing the annulment as a way to get out of a marriage that isn’t going the way you expected, but you're overlooking the very real emotional journey your husband is going through

No, she's realising the entire marriage is built on a false foundation. And that her husband essentially tried to trap her into staying with him, by waiting until the ink was dry on the marriage certificate to tell her about his 'emotional journey'. Knowing that it's harder to walk away from a marriage than a relationship, and that women like you will come along to act as his flying monkeys and convince her she has an obligation to stay.

His "emotional journey" is not more important than the OP's feelings. He can navigate his own transition, and make his emotional well-being his own priority. OP doesn't owe him her support on this "journey".

Sometimes the things we choose to do in life have consequences. The consequences of OP's husband 'living his truth' is that he loses his wife. A decent man would understand this, and would not put the least pressure on her to stay. He would give her everything she needs in the divorce, give her the apology she deserves for the years he has wasted of her life (and for the horrible shock he's just given her) and then he would walk away, and never let anyone say a word against her for the rest of his life.

He’s shared something deeply personal with you—something he’s likely struggled with for a long time—and instead of being there for him, you're thinking of ending things over an issue that goes beyond just a change in sexual intimacy.

Stop underplaying OP's feelings. For goodness sakes. Sexual intimacy will always ebb and flow in a marriage. That's normal and expected. It is not normal to wait until you're married and then tell your partner that actually, you want to make huge changes to your physical appearance, that will fundamentally affect their attraction to you. Oh, and also, from now on, sex will only be conducted in accordance with a particular sexual fetish. And if they don't accept these conditions, the marriage will become completely sexless.

That's not a "change in sexual intimacy". It's an irredeemable warping of their entire sexual relationship.

That's not a minor or expected issue in a marriage. And OP wasn't aware it could even be a factor when she married this man. He, on the other hand, knew it full well. How is that fair? Fuck him, and his "long struggle".

Yes, it’s hard when the person you love suddenly expresses something so radically different from what you thought was the foundation of your relationship.

It's not just "hard" and "different". It reveals the entire foundation of that relationship to be a fraud. OP has every right to feel betrayed, and every right to walk away.

If her husband was gay, would you tell her to stay and get over it? If she discovered he had used prostitutes for years, or had thousands of pounds of debt he had hidden from her, would you insist he's still the man she loved? This is no different. What her husband has hidden from her here is huge, and fundamentally alters the relationship. He is not the man she thought he was. Not the man she agreed to marry. The person she loves was a fiction.

But this is about his identity and his truth, not just about your personal comfort or the way you thought your life would unfold.

Why is it about his identity? OP had an identity too. As a heterosexual wife to a man she thought she knew. Why does her husband's personal comfort matter more than hers? Why are you shaming her for wanting the marriage she signed up for? Her husband just utterly blindsided her. Why are you so set on minimising the absolute bomb he has just dropped on her life?

It’s clear that you loved him for who he was before, and this might be an opportunity for you to love him through a very painful transformation.

Tell me you're kidding me.

She loved the man she thought he was. She has now discovered no such person exists. He pretended to be someone else. He let her marry and have a child with him, wasting years of her life where she could have had an honest relationship - with a man, like the man she thought she already had. The man she trusted.

He waited to share this side of himself, until she had made a commitment to him in ignorance. And now he's trying to guilt her into staying, instead of having the decency to set her free.

She doesn't have to "love him through it". She can love herself, and leave him.

Relationships change, sometimes in ways that are unexpected and difficult, but that doesn’t mean the commitment you made to each other should be tossed aside when things get complicated.

He hasn't lost his hair. He hasn't lost his job. He hasn't been struck by a sudden illness.

He lied. They are fundamentally incompatible. OP isn't making some frivolous choice to 'toss aside' their marriage. She's walking away from a commitment her husband secured under false pretenses. She only married him because he lied. Put whatever gloss on it you want. That's the truth.

You're focusing on your own discomfort without truly considering the weight of what your husband is going through.

Fine by me.

I realise in the world of the trans cult, we're supposed to see this a gut-wrenching decision he had no control over. That's clearly your perspective. But in the real world, OP's husband is either a closeted gay man, or, more likely, an autogynephile who has let his sexual fetish consume him, to the point where he now feels compelled to womanface full time, and drag other people into it. His wife will be expected to live in service to his fantasy, while everyone else feels sorry for him and handwaves away his abject selfishness.

I could not care less about the feelings of such a man. My compassion is all for his wife, and I'm not ashamed of that.

Till death do us part IMO. This is more about you than him.

OP signed her life away under false pretenses. The marriage contract is null and void already. Besides - the man she thought she married is about to become 'dead' to her anyway. The name she used in her wedding vows will soon be the 'deadname' of someone who never truly existed.

She owes him nothing.

As for "more about you than him" . . . oh, don't make me laugh. Much like your own post, this is all about him. His feelings, his 'journey', his expectations and desires and actions. This entire thing boils down to his self-image. A vulnerable narcissist is still a narcissist.

*

Sorry for the wall of text, everyone! But this post exemplifies so many people's attitudes to women who find themselves in this situation, and I really wanted to break down the whole thing. Maybe one day soon it'll stick, and we'll stop seeing this sort of thing aimed at women like OP.

A thousand times this! 👏👏👏

BunnyLake · 25/05/2025 20:27

Pupinskipops · 25/05/2025 17:05

Funny thing is, it's not me who's making it about me, it's people who seem to be obsessed by my gender for some reason. I challenge you to find anywhere where I've made any reference to myself except in direct response to somebody's question to me. Off you go...

What do you mean by parents assigning the sex of their baby at birth?

BunnyLake · 25/05/2025 20:33

Pupinskipops · 25/05/2025 17:20

Have I? Crikey! I must have been writing in my sleep... 🙄

Out of curiosity, why are you putting trans women’s wants above biological women’s needs, as a biological woman yourself? You give off the impression that, hypothetically, if you had to choose a side you wouldn't choose the biological women’s team.

Pupinskipops · 25/05/2025 20:47

BunnyLake · 25/05/2025 20:27

What do you mean by parents assigning the sex of their baby at birth?

That's not what I said.

Memoryhole · 25/05/2025 20:49

Dear OP, I hope that you are getting some real world help through all of this, you need and deserve it.

just a couple of points to be aware of, he has started the emotional manipulation already, please don’t be shocked and distressed if he increases it. He quite probably thought that you were sufficiently trapped to go along with him and he is likely to be very angry that you are not. This may add to his poor behaviour.

never, ever feel that you have to set fire to yourself to keep someone else warm. You have rights and needs too.

get good legal advice.

every best wish

Valeriekat · 25/05/2025 21:39

confusedpasty · 24/05/2025 19:40

Thank you for this, I believe those would apply to this situation. Because yes we have had sex before of course and share a child, but surely consummation means sex after the actual marriage which hasn’t happened. Not to mention the trans part.
He said he wouldn’t be open to annulment as he basically feels we should stick together for better or worse! But I hope he may be willing to talk again once the dust settles a little. I don’t see how we can come back from this

In other words he tricked you into marriage.

Sunshineonbluebells · 25/05/2025 21:50

Op, I'm really sorry to raise this, as I know it will be upsetting

But I really wouldn't meet up with him, alone.

Now he knows you want an annulment, all he has to do is have sex with you (wanted, or rape) to stop you getting an annulment.

Please, do not meet up with him alone, and do not trust your child to anyone who has s his relative.

If he has PR, he can keep your child from you, and it will be difficult to get your child back

Sunshineonbluebells · 25/05/2025 21:52

Is his relative, not has s relative

JamesWebbSpaceTelescope · 25/05/2025 22:02

Sunshineonbluebells · 25/05/2025 21:50

Op, I'm really sorry to raise this, as I know it will be upsetting

But I really wouldn't meet up with him, alone.

Now he knows you want an annulment, all he has to do is have sex with you (wanted, or rape) to stop you getting an annulment.

Please, do not meet up with him alone, and do not trust your child to anyone who has s his relative.

If he has PR, he can keep your child from you, and it will be difficult to get your child back

Edited

Rape does not count as consummation of a marriage. Please do not add unnecessary, unfounded fears.

Sunshineonbluebells · 25/05/2025 22:08

He could "persuade her" and it would count.

ForeverPombear · 25/05/2025 22:22

SnoopyPajamas · 25/05/2025 19:29

I understand how overwhelming this situation must be, but I think it's important to take a step back and consider if you're being a bit selfish in your approach.

She isn't. And for you to imply this is the last thing she needs.

You're framing the annulment as a way to get out of a marriage that isn’t going the way you expected, but you're overlooking the very real emotional journey your husband is going through

No, she's realising the entire marriage is built on a false foundation. And that her husband essentially tried to trap her into staying with him, by waiting until the ink was dry on the marriage certificate to tell her about his 'emotional journey'. Knowing that it's harder to walk away from a marriage than a relationship, and that women like you will come along to act as his flying monkeys and convince her she has an obligation to stay.

His "emotional journey" is not more important than the OP's feelings. He can navigate his own transition, and make his emotional well-being his own priority. OP doesn't owe him her support on this "journey".

Sometimes the things we choose to do in life have consequences. The consequences of OP's husband 'living his truth' is that he loses his wife. A decent man would understand this, and would not put the least pressure on her to stay. He would give her everything she needs in the divorce, give her the apology she deserves for the years he has wasted of her life (and for the horrible shock he's just given her) and then he would walk away, and never let anyone say a word against her for the rest of his life.

He’s shared something deeply personal with you—something he’s likely struggled with for a long time—and instead of being there for him, you're thinking of ending things over an issue that goes beyond just a change in sexual intimacy.

Stop underplaying OP's feelings. For goodness sakes. Sexual intimacy will always ebb and flow in a marriage. That's normal and expected. It is not normal to wait until you're married and then tell your partner that actually, you want to make huge changes to your physical appearance, that will fundamentally affect their attraction to you. Oh, and also, from now on, sex will only be conducted in accordance with a particular sexual fetish. And if they don't accept these conditions, the marriage will become completely sexless.

That's not a "change in sexual intimacy". It's an irredeemable warping of their entire sexual relationship.

That's not a minor or expected issue in a marriage. And OP wasn't aware it could even be a factor when she married this man. He, on the other hand, knew it full well. How is that fair? Fuck him, and his "long struggle".

Yes, it’s hard when the person you love suddenly expresses something so radically different from what you thought was the foundation of your relationship.

It's not just "hard" and "different". It reveals the entire foundation of that relationship to be a fraud. OP has every right to feel betrayed, and every right to walk away.

If her husband was gay, would you tell her to stay and get over it? If she discovered he had used prostitutes for years, or had thousands of pounds of debt he had hidden from her, would you insist he's still the man she loved? This is no different. What her husband has hidden from her here is huge, and fundamentally alters the relationship. He is not the man she thought he was. Not the man she agreed to marry. The person she loves was a fiction.

But this is about his identity and his truth, not just about your personal comfort or the way you thought your life would unfold.

Why is it about his identity? OP had an identity too. As a heterosexual wife to a man she thought she knew. Why does her husband's personal comfort matter more than hers? Why are you shaming her for wanting the marriage she signed up for? Her husband just utterly blindsided her. Why are you so set on minimising the absolute bomb he has just dropped on her life?

It’s clear that you loved him for who he was before, and this might be an opportunity for you to love him through a very painful transformation.

Tell me you're kidding me.

She loved the man she thought he was. She has now discovered no such person exists. He pretended to be someone else. He let her marry and have a child with him, wasting years of her life where she could have had an honest relationship - with a man, like the man she thought she already had. The man she trusted.

He waited to share this side of himself, until she had made a commitment to him in ignorance. And now he's trying to guilt her into staying, instead of having the decency to set her free.

She doesn't have to "love him through it". She can love herself, and leave him.

Relationships change, sometimes in ways that are unexpected and difficult, but that doesn’t mean the commitment you made to each other should be tossed aside when things get complicated.

He hasn't lost his hair. He hasn't lost his job. He hasn't been struck by a sudden illness.

He lied. They are fundamentally incompatible. OP isn't making some frivolous choice to 'toss aside' their marriage. She's walking away from a commitment her husband secured under false pretenses. She only married him because he lied. Put whatever gloss on it you want. That's the truth.

You're focusing on your own discomfort without truly considering the weight of what your husband is going through.

Fine by me.

I realise in the world of the trans cult, we're supposed to see this a gut-wrenching decision he had no control over. That's clearly your perspective. But in the real world, OP's husband is either a closeted gay man, or, more likely, an autogynephile who has let his sexual fetish consume him, to the point where he now feels compelled to womanface full time, and drag other people into it. His wife will be expected to live in service to his fantasy, while everyone else feels sorry for him and handwaves away his abject selfishness.

I could not care less about the feelings of such a man. My compassion is all for his wife, and I'm not ashamed of that.

Till death do us part IMO. This is more about you than him.

OP signed her life away under false pretenses. The marriage contract is null and void already. Besides - the man she thought she married is about to become 'dead' to her anyway. The name she used in her wedding vows will soon be the 'deadname' of someone who never truly existed.

She owes him nothing.

As for "more about you than him" . . . oh, don't make me laugh. Much like your own post, this is all about him. His feelings, his 'journey', his expectations and desires and actions. This entire thing boils down to his self-image. A vulnerable narcissist is still a narcissist.

*

Sorry for the wall of text, everyone! But this post exemplifies so many people's attitudes to women who find themselves in this situation, and I really wanted to break down the whole thing. Maybe one day soon it'll stick, and we'll stop seeing this sort of thing aimed at women like OP.

This is everything I wanted to say and more.

I hope you're okay OP. You're going through one hell of a shock and I hope you have some real life support.

BMW6 · 25/05/2025 22:22

Pupinskipops · 25/05/2025 20:47

That's not what I said.

I guess that for most people their gender is assigned at birth by their parents and by society in line with their genitalia, and for some people reassigned by themselves as they develop a sense of their true identity. I think that's what you're asking!

That's exactly what you said as copied and pasted above from your post at 16.28.

Perhaps you forgot what you wrote. Perhaps.

Gender is absolutely NOT assigned at birth. Sex is determined at conception by chromosomes.
The SEX of a newborn is OBSERVED because in the vast, VAST majority of cases the genitals are correctly indicative of sex. In a really tiny number of cases DSD could mean ambivalence over sex - but the chromosomes will always, ALWAYS, indicate male or female. No exceptions.

Gender is invisible so certainly cannot be observed at birth. Gender is expression of personality. Nothing to do with biological sex, which is binary, immutable and cannot be changed.

A transwoman can never become a "real" woman. At best they can have the physical outward appearance, but their chromosomes will always determine that they are male.
In the same way a transman will never become a real male. Only a facsimile.

I feel sorry for them often because they are crying for the moon and they are probably very unhappy - but others don't have to participate in their fantasy nor must we deny Truth.

I don't feel remotely sorry for those who really hate women and try to silence us. They can FO.

BunnyLake · 25/05/2025 22:23

Pupinskipops · 25/05/2025 20:47

That's not what I said.

Well I don’t understand what you mean by parents assigning their new baby a gender. Do you mean they’re dressing them in pink or blue?

Scottishskifun · 25/05/2025 22:26

OP I'm sorry your whole world is turning upside down at the moment.

I'm not in the same situation but would say that your husband has lied to you and is now trying to manipulate you to what he wants.
He's not thinking of his family here it's all about him.

Marriage vows are also about honesty and he has shown none of that. You owe him nothing and have your whole life ahead of you.

BMW6 · 25/05/2025 22:27

Pupinskipops

Owes you an apology BunnyLake. Her post saying that was at 16.28.

FlakyCritic · 25/05/2025 22:48

JamesWebbSpaceTelescope · 25/05/2025 22:02

Rape does not count as consummation of a marriage. Please do not add unnecessary, unfounded fears.

No, it is not 'unfounded fears' at all! Rape is extremely hard to prove. He can just say she spitefully claimed rape because he is transitioning. Sunshineonbluebells is very wise. Please pay attention to her advice, @confusedpasty .

I'd say don't go at all. You owe him nothing at all. Just message him you are filing for Annulment right away, and you have nothing to say, everything can go through your solicitor.

But.... if you are silly enough to meet up with him, do not under any circumstances take your son. Leave him with your mother or a close trusted friend. No one from his family/friends. And take someone with you, do NOT, whatever you do, go alone!

BunnyLake · 25/05/2025 22:54

BMW6 · 25/05/2025 22:27

Pupinskipops

Owes you an apology BunnyLake. Her post saying that was at 16.28.

I don’t really understand where @Pupinskipops is coming from to be honest. It’s one thing to feel compassion for people who are genuinely in turmoil (and I do), but that poster seems to have no empathy for her own biological sex and seems very firmly in the ‘any type of trans no matter how disingenuous’ is more worthy of compassionate support and understanding than real women. Can’t understand it myself.

calloutacct · 25/05/2025 23:43

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This post has been generated by ChatGPT or something similar and then edited slightly by the poster. The mix of ’ and ' apostrophes and use of the em dash (—) give it away.

Best not to engage with this, the poster is likely trolling.

Pupinskipops · 26/05/2025 00:08

BMW6 · 25/05/2025 22:22

I guess that for most people their gender is assigned at birth by their parents and by society in line with their genitalia, and for some people reassigned by themselves as they develop a sense of their true identity. I think that's what you're asking!

That's exactly what you said as copied and pasted above from your post at 16.28.

Perhaps you forgot what you wrote. Perhaps.

Gender is absolutely NOT assigned at birth. Sex is determined at conception by chromosomes.
The SEX of a newborn is OBSERVED because in the vast, VAST majority of cases the genitals are correctly indicative of sex. In a really tiny number of cases DSD could mean ambivalence over sex - but the chromosomes will always, ALWAYS, indicate male or female. No exceptions.

Gender is invisible so certainly cannot be observed at birth. Gender is expression of personality. Nothing to do with biological sex, which is binary, immutable and cannot be changed.

A transwoman can never become a "real" woman. At best they can have the physical outward appearance, but their chromosomes will always determine that they are male.
In the same way a transman will never become a real male. Only a facsimile.

I feel sorry for them often because they are crying for the moon and they are probably very unhappy - but others don't have to participate in their fantasy nor must we deny Truth.

I don't feel remotely sorry for those who really hate women and try to silence us. They can FO.

Well, no I didn't forget what I wrote. You actually copied down what I wrote word for word and still you misquote me. Perhaps it's because you're not up to speed with the difference between gender and sex, in which case you should probably bow out of the debate.

I'm not quite sure who you're referring to by "those who really hate women and try to silence us", and what that has to do with this thread.

Pupinskipops · 26/05/2025 00:15

BunnyLake · 25/05/2025 22:54

I don’t really understand where @Pupinskipops is coming from to be honest. It’s one thing to feel compassion for people who are genuinely in turmoil (and I do), but that poster seems to have no empathy for her own biological sex and seems very firmly in the ‘any type of trans no matter how disingenuous’ is more worthy of compassionate support and understanding than real women. Can’t understand it myself.

Where on earth are you getting that from? You're totally totally putting words into my mouth and fabricating my views. 🤦🏼‍♀️

BMW6 · 26/05/2025 00:26

Pupinskipops · 26/05/2025 00:08

Well, no I didn't forget what I wrote. You actually copied down what I wrote word for word and still you misquote me. Perhaps it's because you're not up to speed with the difference between gender and sex, in which case you should probably bow out of the debate.

I'm not quite sure who you're referring to by "those who really hate women and try to silence us", and what that has to do with this thread.

I copied and pasted your post at 16.28 so in what way can I possibly have "misqouted" you?
Please explain yourself if you are going to accuse me of misquoting you.

I am very well aware of the difference between gender and sex. That's why I chose my words very carefully. You mix up sex and gender as if they are the same in your own posts, so it's YOU who need to bow out as you are out of your depth.

Sex is biological binary fact, yes? Gender is expression, fluid and not biological, yes? Interested to hear your contrary position and logic on this.

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