Partner says he’s not going to ‘pander’ to me anymore

[Potentialfuturemother]

So for a bit of background, we’ve been together for 12 years and are getting married this summer. We are both nearly 32 and are planning on having children next year. I am overall very happy in the relationship and love him very much. However the last few days we’ve had a couple of rows and the way he’s dealt with them is very different to usual. Everyone argues ofc and normally they’re two sided affairs. But the last two we’ve had it feels like he’s almost trying to stamp out my opinion. Today we disagreed about something he said (he tried to blame me for the dog hurting himself and getting a limp on a walk which I thought was outrageous) so I got annoyed and argued my point. He then came out with this narrative that from now on he’s not going to pander to me, that he said nothing wrong and that he’s going to be firmer from now on. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, he was speaking like I was a child. I’ve tried not to exacerbate the row and just let it be for now as he does sometimes get in weird tired moods and he’s had a very busy week at work. But I’m basically wondering if anyone else has experienced this and where this idea could be coming from.

He's just told you he doesn't respect you. If you're into sunk costs then go ahead and marry him but you should probably plan for your divorce at the same time because you have no control over how he behaves towards you.

No amount of advice from any perspective will make him start to say nice things to you.

The reason the OP is getting a chorus of advice that is the same is because this behaviour is so common in men, and many of us have experienced it, and the resulting escalation of abuse. It's a known tactic that is used to 'train' us. It's insidious and nasty; more often than not, this behaviour ramps up.

It's absolutely not OK to be spoken to in the way the OP has described the way that her partner has spoken to her.

"I’ve tried not to exacerbate the row and just let it be for now as he does sometimes get in weird tired moods and he’s had a very busy week at work."
Substitute 'school' for 'work' and you could be talking about a child.

Yes, and basically what people are saying is women can act however they want but if a man does it 'leave now'

I am not saying the man or the op is right or wrong but the dramatics on here never stop, don't people communicate like adults?

Don’t marry him. He’s showing his true colours and he’s made you back down like a good little girl. This will get worse once he think he owns you, by marrying or having a child.

Walk away now. Don’t worry about cancelling the wedding, just tell your family and friends about his attitude changing.

@Potentialfuturemother id ask him what he was feeling underneath that. If this is out of character then try and get to the root of his feelings, if he cannot do that then you may be in for an unhappy time.

With respect, you're still wearing your rose tinted glasses.

He is saying from now on its his way or the highway, what he says goes, you are not important. What else could you think he means by saying he won't pander to you anymore when you know you're being reasonable, trying to be heard, and worthy of respect?

Unless you don't think those things about yourself, in which case, get therapy.

He's banking on you falling for the sunk cost fallacy of I've spent 8 years of my life with him already because you'll doubt yourself and excuse his shite behaviour.

You literally get one shot at this. Marriage is expensive. Divorce is expensive. Emotional abuse can leave you with crippling low self esteem, PTSD and depression.

My ex told me he wouldn't pander to me anymore when I was pregnant with hyperemesis, being hospitalised and just asked him to make me a slice of plain toast. That's the sort of person you're looking at when they tell you they won't pander to you. They're telling you they do not think you're important and they do not respect you. You serve a purpose in their life and when you deviate from that purpose you will be corrected.

So what do you want? Him to stop 'pandering' to you, ie listening to you, and then bring a baby into the mix? Tbf its quite the long game for an intentionally controlling man but he could have been groomed, or hes not that into the relationship and is trying to make you call it off.

Either way its not a situation where getting married and knocked up makes things better.

Hi OP

Posters are just worried for you as many abusive men seem fine for years and then when they feel the woman is 'trapped' (either by marriage or pregnancy) their behaviour switches. A sudden change in behaviour just after a wedding (particularly related to things women are or aren't allowed to do or say) is depressingly common.

So people are naturally thinking that because its so close to your wedding day now, that he is showing you what he is going to be like after the wedding.

Speak to him when you're both calm and tell him how you felt about being talked to like that and ask him what he meant by it etc, if you genuinely think its not like him. What is he going to do next time he disagrees with you? What does he see as 'pandering'. Why does he feel he has to 'win' rather than accept you both see things differently

But even if he is not abusive, his style of conflict resolution sounds really unhealthy. A few counselling sessions may help give you both some techniques to resolve things like this without resorting to that behaviour.

This.

OP the responses you're getting are coming from the best possible place, however much you don't like it. But if you want something less dogmatic...

He then came out with this narrative that from now on he’s not going to pander to me, that he said nothing wrong and that he’s going to be firmer from now on.

You cannot just let this pass, hope he said it because he's stressed and doesn't really mean it. You need to ask him to explain every part of what he said.

What does he mean, not pander? How has he 'pandered' before? What is he going to do differently?

Why did he think that you were responsible for the dog hurting itself? Ask him to be specific. What should you have done differently? If he believes he said nothing wrong, he should be able to answer all of these.

He's going to be firmer from now on. What is that going to look like? Specific examples, not vague waffle.

Then you have to judge what to do based on his answers. But if it sounds like he intends to control your behaviour or opinions, I'm in the leave him camp. If he won't answer your questions or generally discuss it, then that's a serious red flag and again, leave him. He's telling you he's going to be the boss and you're not allowed to have feelings or ideas or opinions, you'll just do what you're told.

DO NOT LET THIS SLIDE.

I can see you the think the responses are extreme and they are a bit to jump to that. But the key point is this isn’t an ok way for him to treat you, and it doesn’t make up for it that he’s great most of the time. He didn’t used to be like this at all- it could shift so he’s great 10% of the time. You need to make sure this stops and he knows he can’t treat you like this, or the answer really is leave him.

My husband said these exact same words a while back (over a year ago) it was his Dads advice “be firmer with your wife” show her who’s boss, stop pandering to her yadda yadda

Speaking for myself, I would find that so hugely off-putting that I’d find it very hard to continue the relationship. So patronising. I wonder what he thinks he’s been enduring from you. And why hasn’t he addressed it before?

How did you react? (I hope you told him to stick it where the sun don't shine.)

I’m going against the general drift here I think but my instinct was ‘cherchez la femme’

His mum/sister/best friend may be counselling him but in my long experience of relationships (my own & male and female friends), when a person is being told they are controlled/shouldn’t pander, there is someone, somewhere telling them how wonderful they are.

I hope you can have discussion where you can sort it out before you marry. At different points in a marriage, you will both need to put the other person first sometimes. That’s not the same as ‘pandering.’

I was going to say the exact same thing, has another member of his family/friends (probably male) suggested he is 'under the thumb' in any way?

Please just talk to your prospective husband. These knee jerk reactions are just bonkers.

However if he does come across in any way Andrew Tate-like or abusive, do seriously consider not getting married/having children with this man.

OP, you've come here and asked for opinions, and you're getting them. You might not like them, but they are still valid opinions from people who have been in relationships and see what your partner has said as a red flag.

I mean, okay, you say you don't want to end things over this, that he's a lovely man. Well he's a lovely man who 'doesn't want to pander to you' anymore. Clearly he feels hard done by. You need to speak to him about it

People are saying don't have children with this man because if this is how he is in a disagreement, it will only get much worse once you've got childcare issues to argue over.

What does he mean by "pander" to you?

What does he mean by being firmer with you?

I think you need to have a conversation with him about how conflict is going to be resolved in your relationship.

There will always be disagreements in a relationship. How they are handled (how you discuss things, how you disagree, how you sort it out together) is so important for a healthy relationship imho.

Contempt is a relationship killer. Mutual respect for each other is essential. If things can't be resolved with mutual respect then that's going to lead to a very uncomfortable marriage I think.

You’re welcome to come and spend a few days in my shit storm of an existence to see what awaits you in the future.

If I’d really thought about the red flags my “D”H showed me when we were dating, and knew where they would lead. I’d have left. Now I’m married to a man that is fine 80% of the time but has abusive and controlling tendencies, wrapped up in a parcel of mother problems and anxiety. I have had to up my game to learn how to handle his shitty behaviour and ignore his moods. When he’s on good form he’s great but if I could start again, I’d have never married or had kids with him. Small insights during dating that I ignored (being controlling about my running routes through “concern for my safety” when I’d been running without issue there for ten years, lots of issues with his toxic family too), became full blown when I had our first child. This is what those are telling you to leave have experienced, don’t ignore it because once you’re heading down that aisle into the maternity ward, it’s a hell of a lot harder to get into reverse.

Sounds he’s been listening to all the alpha male bullshit that is popular on TikTok/social media these days.

So... You'll always get these polarised black and white oversimplistic statements of LTB on Mumsnet.

Nobody on here knows you or your fiance.

I'd talk to a trusted friend who will give you a personalised answer based on knowing you and him.

If you've been together 8 years and you've genuinely never had a sniff of any chauvinistic behaviour before, I wouldn't jump straight to dumping him!

He could well be stressed, nervous regarding the marriage. It's worth a chat first. With abusive men, there's often a very predictable cycle of nasty cruel behaviour and love bombing that perpetually goes on a loop.

He doesn't sound abusive based on one wrong move. He sounded like he acted like a complete twat to be honest and needs to have a rethink and reality check. Being a one off twat doesn't necessarily=abuse, especially after 8 years.

What reaction were you hoping for? Because something made you come here and share what happened and I think it's that you found it as alarming as everyone else did when they read it. People can offer you 'its ok hun' vague support but the 'its not ok' advice is coming from a much kinder place, that doesn't want to see you walk into a bad situation.
He's waving some big red flags here, so to me the obvious thing is not to tie yourself to him legally or financially. The one good thing is that he has shown those red flags now and not after the wedding.
Of course saying call off the wedding is huge, but so is getting married to someone who is saying 'he’s going to be firmer from now on' and who spoke to you like a child.