Partner says he’s not going to ‘pander’ to me anymore

[Potentialfuturemother]

So for a bit of background, we’ve been together for 12 years and are getting married this summer. We are both nearly 32 and are planning on having children next year. I am overall very happy in the relationship and love him very much. However the last few days we’ve had a couple of rows and the way he’s dealt with them is very different to usual. Everyone argues ofc and normally they’re two sided affairs. But the last two we’ve had it feels like he’s almost trying to stamp out my opinion. Today we disagreed about something he said (he tried to blame me for the dog hurting himself and getting a limp on a walk which I thought was outrageous) so I got annoyed and argued my point. He then came out with this narrative that from now on he’s not going to pander to me, that he said nothing wrong and that he’s going to be firmer from now on. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, he was speaking like I was a child. I’ve tried not to exacerbate the row and just let it be for now as he does sometimes get in weird tired moods and he’s had a very busy week at work. But I’m basically wondering if anyone else has experienced this and where this idea could be coming from.

I don't think he wants to get married, thus the shift in behaviour. OP may not be willing to call off the wedding, but I suspect that he will, especially given how long it took to get to this point. In the end, it would be best for the OP if he does.

He WILL go on to abuse you, if not physically, then emotionally, psychologically and possibly financially.

This. You're already avoiding saying more to him about the row. Already appeasing him. Already making yourself smaller. Already losing yourself. Already making yourself quieter. Already questioning yourself. Bit by bit by bit. Already wondering ‘Was I too much,I didn’t think I was?’ when you never would have before;you knew yourself and rightly so,you haven’t changed.
You sound an intelligent,articulate,confident woman - remember that because he’s trying to erode those qualities and someone who truly loves you would not do that.

Be honest with yourself about how often you do this and how long it has been going on. I think if you really look back and examine closely,you may be surprised at how often and how long. But crucially,it can be very hard to see it yourself because it’s soooo insidious and that’s where the danger is,that’s how it happens and all of a sudden,you don’t recognise yourself and you’re trapped.

Which is why the advice on here seems harsh to you and like it’s not applicable but each one of those giving that advice started out just like you,thinking it’s an isolated incident that can be explained away and that they would be able to see and recognise something like that happening to themselves.
But it’s so hard to see in your own relationship because we are all of course somewhat blinded by love and the complexities of that and any other history or dynamics at play. And if you do see it,even briefly,they quickly use all their manipulation tactics to make you think it’s not that (it’s your fault/it didn’t happen/they were tired/they were angry/but of course they love and respect you so much/they didn’t mean it like that/you’re making a big deal of it/you’re imagining it/you obviously don’t love them anymore/you’re lying/etc/etc). You see?

You need a very serious,cards-on-the-table discussion about what EXACTLY he meant by what he said,what he thinks ‘pandering’ to you means and if he thinks he’s being doing that to date (I imagine this may be news to you and could well be a very big wake-up call because if he thinks he’s been doing that all along and you think he’s just been being a nice fiancé…well…run!) and exactly how he sees the dynamic of your relationship in the future.
Pay close attention to what he says in the discussion,how he says it AND what he doesn’t say. If he refuses to discuss it,another massive red flag,sorry and you need to keep pushing until it gets discussed, to your satisfaction.

It’s so important to lay the ground but bear in mind that anyone can say and promise anything and not stick to it and many,many men do not turn out to be the husbands (and especially fathers) they professed they would - they like the idea of a wife and kids but not the commitment and effort and you will be doing EVERYTHING and your guy has already proved himself manipulative and disingenuous at the point where the hard years of the relationship (marriage and kids) haven’t even begun.

Only you know him. People on here Don’t.
No one is 100% perfect.
People do say some stupid things when they’re tired and stressed 💐

But I’m basically wondering if anyone else has experienced this and where this idea could be coming from

I know you think everyone is just being ridiculous and it’s insane to think that you’d throw away a relationship of over a decade for a silly comment that was completely out of character. But it’s precisely because the posters above have either experienced this themselves, or have seen it happen a dozen times over that they are warning you. You know this isn’t right, at least in your subconscious, or you wouldn’t have picked up on it. It would have been just a silly comment said in the heat of the moment during a row that would have been forgotten about. But you’ve remembered it. That is your internal alarm system going off.

I have no doubt at all that you’ll stay with him. But at the very least, you need to have a serious conversation about this and make it very clear that you will continue to stand up for yourself if he makes silly and unfair accusations against you, and that any suggestion that he’s ‘pandering’ to you is unacceptable. You want to know what’s going on in his head that he thinks this is an acceptable way to talk to you and he needs to understand that you will not be gaslit into thinking that you’re the difficult one. This is a warning sign. It might be a warning that he’s going through some stuff and is reacting irrationally to it. Or it might be a warning sign that you are walking into an abusive marriage. But if you ignore it, you will regret it, we all promise you.

If you’re so sure that everyone is completely wrong, then please, please come back to this thread when your first child is 6 months old and tell us that he isn’t awful to you, you aren’t minimising yourself to avoid upsetting him and you’re perfectly happy. And if you’re being honest then we’ll all be over the moon for you. I really hope you do that, and that we’re all wrong, and you’re going to have a happy and healthy marriage. But I’m going to leave this here, just in case you need to look at it in the future.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/the-survivors-handbook/im-not-sure-if-my-relationship-is-healthy/

It sounds like you feel that this is a huge and sudden departure from his normal conflict resolution style @Potentialfuturemother, so it's definitely important that you sit down with him (once you're both calmer) and get to the bottom of what's prompted this.

Of course you're not going to leap straight to "LTB" after 12 years, but in your shoes I would be concerned and would want to be sure that this wasn't going to be an ongoing issue and would want to be sure he knew I wasn't going to put up with this going forward.

I hate to say it, but it does sound as if he may have been reading some Andrew Tate-type propaganda, and I would want to be sure he knew this had no place in my home, particularly if you're planning to have children with him in the future.

I think the overwhelming thing people are saying is don't marry him immediately, rather than leave him immediately. He's shown some very alarming behaviour just a few months before the OP is due to legally and financially tie herself to him.
It might be a one off blip and someone has got in his ear, it could be the first sign of an abusive marriage, it's hard to tell from a handful of posts, but to me it would be really foolish to sign a contract with him without properly finding out.

I would sit down and speak to him about this, ask him what he means by ‘pandering’. Be strong and be assertive, don’t back down. How he reacts to this will tell a story.

If he stands his ground then you know you have a problem and my advice is to walk away.

If your conversation throws out something else then hear him out but I would honestly have to be really clear that compromise and making space is not pandering

So sorry OP, it’s odd that this has come out of nowhere, especially as you’ve been with him for so many years.

If I were you, I’d be interested to see what podcasts and social media content he’s been consuming. Does he have any mates who share this outlook?

Reaction here is based on a very well-known pattern of behaviour from men who become abusive after marriage/pregnancy.

Your man might be an exception.

However it is worth taking time to consider his attitude to you and whether or not he does usually treat you as an equal.

He looks back over your life and considers that when talking through disagreements he is pandering to you rather than listening and responding to a peer.

Do you agree? How do you see things going?

Has he apologised for his bad humour and for talking down to you ?

This really matters.

You will feel vulnerable when pregnant and caring for your child. You should not have to 'walk on eggshells' around him for fear of anger or dismissive behaviour.

Id tell him that you wont be pandering to his bullshit either, so this could get interesting

I think we’re wasting our breath here with the OP, as pp have said they didn’t like the answers so probably aren’t coming back. But then, maybe others in a similar situation will find the advice useful.

I suspect she knows deep down something is very wrong but it’s easier to tell faceless MNetters how mean and cruel they are than sit down and say what needs to be said to her partner.

This is why I’m a bit hesitant to give advice to certain friends/colleagues. They’ll share how awful their partner is being then ask you what you think.

So you point out the red flags, then they go a bit silent or frosty when you do point out how serious his behaviour is.

Not everyone is ready to hear the truth or can handle someone saying negative things about their partner. Maybe they feel it’s a betrayal. Fair enough but don’t bother asking then!

This @Potentialfuturemother

OP you dont like the responses, but I urge you to listen to them - we all speak from experience! We recognise his new attitude, the shift, the timing, your response (backing down so as not to exacerbate) - and we know where that all leads, and it’s not good.
HE told you things are going to change. HE told you he’s going to “be firmer” with you from now on. So things have changed, he has changed, your relationship has changed - you must realise this, and stop clinging to something and someone that no longer exists. To have children with a man who thinks he should be “firm” with you, his partner, and who as you say has “weird tired moods” depending on how extreme these are, would be madness. I cannot put into words how difficult and stressful having children is and how much stress it puts on a relationship - and this “firm” bullshit is NO WAY for a positive parenting journey. You will most likely either live under an awful controlling, judgemental, “firm” emotionally abusive (or worse), and don’t underestimate the potential for financial abuse; or you’ll finally wise-up and file for divorce. Think long and hard about the advice on this thread - many of us have lived your experience and what it leads to, and wish we had heeded the red flags rather than think “I cant leave him because we’ve been together a long time, we’ve built a life together, he’s usually nice, the wedding’s already planned, he doesn’t hit me, I love him etc”

Sorry, I had put in paragraph breaks but they seem to have disappeared!

People have experienced this yes, and got rid.

As to ‘where this idea could be coming from’ - well we don’t know you or him - does he often pander to you? Seems a weird thing to say, and he sounds like he’s not gonna be a good person to marry or have kids with. Sorry,

Previous posters are completely right about the mask slipping with this type of man. My ex husband used to say when he had me in the grip of his abuse, you just thought I was a good man and I am not. This was after a 15 year marriage and I waited a long time to have children as I wanted to make sure. There were red flags but they were subtle and as I was strong and independent, I chose to ignore them. When I gave birth and needed even a modicum of his support, he was was disgusted. By this stage, he was habitually cheating.

Women seem to subscribe so heavily to the sunken costs fallacy when it comes to relationships,especially when children and weddings are involved (or about to be). Facing what this might mean about him is not going to be palatable at all for OP. Men however,tend to throw in the towel pretty quickly when something isn’t inherently working for them,regardless of the life stage, as they are generally more selfish.

I understand this point of view, but.
he's trying to establish the future relationship.

He's in charge, you follow his instructions. If you're content with that, and he's so marvelous, fine.

Or stand up for yourself, slap him back/down.
He either realises his error, apologises, and then treats you as the equal you are, which is good.
If not, obvious red flag, leave him and find a new life.

@WhereYouLeftIt

I wish I had read this when I was 32. You are absolutely correct.

My abusive ex tested the waters when I was engaged, telling me not to have a work lunch/ meeting with a male colleague. I challenged it and he backed down and was apparently 'having an off day'.

Tested the waters again when he had another 'off day' once I was married and I questioned him on something he didn't like and he let rip and said some awful stuff.

I accepted his excuse, got pregnant and the mask slipped completely. It was so bad the police got involved. Did I think that would happen when I was engaged? Absolutely not. I made excuses as I couldn't quite believe who he really was.

It's been so so hard. OP, people have your best interests at heart. It could be nothing or could be everything, but deal with it and don't ignore it.

Get out.
He'll be worse when he has you barefoot and pregnant.

Has he been reading stuff regarding Andrew Tate or similar. Sounds like some misogynistic bullshit..

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but feeling like yours is being stamped on isn’t good. Saying he won’t pander to you is a very odd thing to say.

Andrew tate is so misogynistic men like this sadly do still exist

Rows are natural but the suggestion that "things are going to change" doesn't bode too well. This sounds very controlling.

OP ain't listening