Should my wife support me on this?

[OzzyGrandad]

My wife & I attended a Christmas dinner at our daughters in laws. The dinner was on the table but there were still a few items to be placed & finalized. I asked my daughters mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. (I admit was not a good move). I believe the son of the mother in law wanted to say grace before dinner & was angry that I had started. He launched into a tirade of abuse, aggressively belittling me about my bad manners. I tried to explain that his mother had said it was ok to start, but this was ignored. I remained calm for the rest of the evening & then we went home. The next day I texted the son, explained my position & informed him that I would not tolerate such verbal abuse again, hoping he would regret being so abusive & apologize. He texted back, F off D Head.
We drop our grandson at his house every weekend & he returns him on Sunday. I asked my wife, when he drops his son off, to be courteous, but to not show any of the usual friendliness, just pick him up & say goodbye until he apologizes to me for his behavior. My wife refused, saying it was between me & him. She behaved as if nothing had happened & was friendly.
My question to the readers of this story is, should my wife have agreed to just be courteous & not friendly, or was she right to ignore my feelings on the matter.

Are you by any chance a relative of the other narcissist dad on the school thread who cannot let anything go and has to be the centre of everyone’s attention at all times?

So you were rude, he was very rude, you were very rude, he was very rude. Neither of you apologises but SIL says it won't happen again. Over four months later your wife asks him in for a cup of tea during handover. You take umbridge and get your knickers in a twist, probably give your wife a hard time, who insists she's only trying to not rock the boat. You are so offended that you cannot forgive her and contemplate divorce. You come on MN with a rigid mindset but ask opinions, you are given many many opinions, many you don't agree with and some posters you argue with. You seem to want everyone to agree with you. At the end your mindset hasn't changed at all (because you are 100% right). You have a 'conversation' with your wife who does a 180 degree change in her opinion and won't be friendly towards SIL from now on. So you completely got your own way, but, rather than just let it go, you insist on having it out with SIL again, (doing exactly what your wife fears and rocking the boat) risking the delicate situation that seems to have been working out relatively OK up to now (beware there is a good chance SIL will tell you to "F off Dhead" again - with good reason this time IMO). You both want to keep SIL in your grandson's life (and therefore yours too), but insist that he must face the consequences of his actions, which appear to be not being offered a cup of tea. Was that about the sum of it? Seems (to me) like unnecessary drama in a situation that doesn't need any extra.

On an separate note, I do hope that homelife and raising your grandson is fairly shared between you and your wife.

Personally I think this thread should be wound up now - it's in danger of just going round and round in circles.

If "You rude, ignorant prick & F Off Dickhead" is not verbal abuse, can you give me an example of verbal abuse please.
Also, Is it acceptable to call people those "names"?
Is it reasonable to ask for an apology for calling you those "names"?
If he refuses to apologize should you just smile & pretend you weren't offended & accept that it might happen again?

How did I lose the moral ground by repeating his own words to him, to let him know how wrong it is to do that? He then lost the moral ground by threatening violence towards me.
You might allow people to abuse you & smile as if nothing happened, but that is cowardly & sends a message to the abuser that he can abuse you at will.

Because you didn’t just ‘repeat his words to let him know it was wrong’. You verbally abused 🙄 him by telling him to F off DHead. In other words you stood there in a slanging match. You’re as bad as each other.

And no, I don’t allow anyone to abuse me. Never have; never will. I also don’t engage in all-out name-calling, nor am I determined to have the last word on an internet forum when I’ve spent 20+ pages arguing back to posters after asking for opinions.

I agree with PP that this is a pointless thread now as it’s going round in circles; you are stubborn and unshakeable in your belief that you are correct (as I suspect you are in other parts of your life) and won’t entertain any reasonable suggestion that you’re at least part of this problem.

Gosh, can’t believe this is still going. So basically OP, it doesn’t matter what anyone says or thinks. You are still of the same opinion that you have been wronged, he needs to learn the error his ways, actions have consequences etc etc.

The real problem as far as I can see is that SIL really doesn’t care about your opinion and that’s what bothers you.

You’re not the main character in his life and your opinion is of no consequence to him at all. I don’t think he’s the only person in your circle who feels that way.

My thoughts are with your wife because your ego is more important to you than your wife’s feelings.

You do you Ozzy because you’re going to stick to your mindset.

I have a feeling within your social circle your opinions are very well known, and not just in this subject.

And I would imagine also within your social circle, people also feel very sorry for your wife.

100%, @Thanksforyourlackofthought. I’d go so far as to say he is expecting fawning gratitude from SiL, a man who he massively dislikes for getting his daughter pregnant (whilst I do remember that the daughter is disabled, OP also said she was willingly having sex with the SiL so I trust that she had sufficient capacity).

I bet there is a huge undercurrent of resentment coupled with the expectation that SiL should be more thankful for the GPs bringing up the child. OP wants to be seen as the hero and now the mask is slipping. The argument over Grace is just an excuse for letting all that pent-up resentment out.

It’s giving strong Old Man Yells At Clouds.

(edit for autocorrect mistake)

The man probably did 'verbally abuse' you BUT you've now gone and abused your wife. You feel he should have a consequence, he isn't going to care. Do you honestly feel that you not talking to him is going to make him upset at all?

I have said previously that we had a good relationship, that I appreciated his involvement with my GS, but you choose to imagine I have had some hatred for him from the beginning. Making crap up in your own deluded head such as "I have an undercurrent of resentment etc. The equation is as simple as, he was aggressive & rude towards me and I asked for an apology. He told me to F Off, I repeated his own words to him and he threatened violence towards me. I really don't care about your deranged opinion about who you think I am.

With every post you show me exactly who you are. Your poor wife.

He needs to be called out be be held accountable for abusing another person. Full stop.
You also need to be called out for continually using your wife's ear as a soundboard.
Awful behaviour from you too.

Gosh. There’s a lot of pride in your behaviour.

Were you invited to carve? I’m quite surprised at you carving in someone else’s house. That’s usually the job of the cook, or the homeowner.

Do you think that’s part of what antagonised your grandson’s dad?

When you shame other people, they get fixed in obstructive behaviour. It’s easier for them to change and grow if you give them space.

When your GS is older, I really hope you will have learned grace from your wife. We are supposed to be the best we can be, not triggered by other people’s behaviour into childishness. You will likely struggle with the young man he’ll grow into if you insist on making everything a challenge to your authority.

I wonder, ozzy, what your take is on today’s generation? Snowflakes? Lacking respect? Entitled? Demanding? not living in the real world?

I hold an honest opinion that you need some counselling if you are to be the best grandfather you can be, and to build up some resilience for the inevitable loss of status, power, and finally of control, which comes with aging. I speak as one not far off your age - and it’s hard to lose the input of respect and regard which a full time working life has provided for so many decades. It’s hard to experience declining energy and physical strength. It’s hard to see younger people - who we feel know nothing - move into the centre stage of life.

I wonder if you are affronted to this degree because a younger man call you names, and he did so in a family setting where you are - laudably - stepping back into a fathering capacity which by right is his. That he made a really awful decision not to raise his son, and morally he “owes you”. He is your “inferior” as I suspect you might view it, in many ways yet had the audacity to judge and criticise you. I think your rage comes from a sense of powerlessness. Your “consequences” are risible to be honest.

quite honestly I’d have been furious too to have a little shit of a man say that to me. Like you, I’d have expected the support of my partner. And yet … I also have sixty years during which I’ve learned that I’m not perfect, that men say shitty things to people almost every day, that men’s egos are the cause of most of the worlds miseries, that you simply cannot change stupidity in others, and that every challenge in life, every instance of feeling pain and anger, is also an opportunity to learn about myself and the mental constructions I create as a human to keep myself feeling That I’m a good person.

read up on attribution theory perhaps. Or Games People Play. Take this as a catalyst to look into yourself and learn who after all these years you have become.

I am very happy within myself. I see an injustice & wish to correct it. Simple as that. We see the father briefly maybe 2 or 3 times a month, it would be better if those occasions were friendly, but from now on they will simply be cordial. Friends don't say that, and then refuse to apologize. He started it, and he can end it with a simple apology. End of story.

Nope, you do care about people’s opinions of you.
You care very much.
You are lead by your ego and self importance.

Your SIL is not impressed by you.
Nobody on this board appears to be impressed by you.
You literally can’t tolerate an opinion that does not suit your narrative.

You got into a spat with your SIL. It happens. Move on.

HTH.

He’s now trying to grind down mumsnet in the same way he ground down his wife.

Question... have you apologised to your SIL for your behaviour and his mum for being a rude ass regarding the food? A sincere, heartfelt apology? Maybe that might encourage him to apologise. Demanding one will get you nowhere

Oh yeah, he thought everyone would be sympathetic towards the 'verbal abuse' and in the beginning I kind of was but with each reply that sympathy is now at 0. He is a d- head and the sooner he realises that he can do the right thing

Yes. Which is the definition of ‘browbeating’, a term he seems not to understand. I think it’s the sustained nature of his aggression that’s so striking, as well as the lack of self-awareness. It’s easy to understand a flare of temper that happens, passes, and is apologised for. The OP is thoroughly enjoying himself spending five months brooding over being ‘abused’, and banging on endlessly about ‘consequences’.

Cordial????

I think it’s really rude to start to eat before everyone else and it doesn’t matter if someone says please start you still wait. However if someone verbally abused my dh I would support him, I wouldn’t have sat quiet whilst it happened. But then my dh has manners so if someone did that to him it would be very uncalled for.

I pointed out that this does not mean what the OP thinks it means quite some time ago. Mind you, I don’t think he’s a word person. His method of engagement seems to involve repeating the same few phrases over and over, with increasing levels of aggression.

Ha! I hadn't read your post before I wrote mine

How old are you again OP?