I need to get something off my chest

[FairPlayer274]

It’s a bit of a long story, but bear with me.

Without giving away too many details about my job, I basically go away to work for two days a month, or for longer for special training. Recently I went for a week long course, and I was catching a certain vibe from one of the instructors, who works with me… Like at one point I thought he was flirting but I wasn’t sure, and he asked me about my relationship status (I’m married with a young child, which I told him.)

At the beginning of the week, he’d sent me a friend request, which I accepted. The service/Wi-Fi was spotty, so I didn’t get his subsequent message there until the last day of the course, when we were testing out. (Thankfully, he wasn’t the one scoring my test. We are equals, at least, but I wanted to be sure I actually earned my certification in the skill he was teaching, you know?) The message basically asked what would I do if a certain coworker matching his description might possibly be attracted to me. But then…

Let me stress to you that I regret my reply, but at the risk of being crucified on here, I’m gonna share it anyway… I told him that if that was the case, it might possibly be mutual, but that nothing could ever come of it (given my marital status.) I don’t know why I said that. I shouldn’t have said that.

He wrote back, essentially, that he understood and respects that, but that he’d “be there” if I ever changed my mind, winky face. The conversation then turned back to work related things. I thought that was the end of it. Nope.

He’s started flirting with me at work. I should be angry that he’s not being respectful, but honestly I’m such a slut for attention that I can’t help but enjoy it. I’m being strictly polite and professional back, but it’s good, smooth flirting, if I’m being honest, and I think he can tell it gets me flustered. It doesn’t help that I’m having intrusive thoughts about how I’m put up in my own hotel room on the occasions we work, and how easy it would be to find an excuse to invite him in… (I’m NOT going to do it. But I’m having trouble not thinking about it, and I have a lot of guilt.)

The worst part is, the day I read that initial message, DH texted me that I was being quiet. I screen-shotted Coworker’s message (cropping out my reply) and sent it to him, and told him I was wondering if I had really earned my certification. We had a mini shit-talking session about how unprofessional it was, and DH made fun of the phrasing. I didn’t mention my response, and deleted it from my phone. It’s been eating at me.

And the thing is, DH and I aren’t even strictly sexually monogamous… though we do have limitations for one another. One of his is that I can’t have extramarital sex with the same man more than once, and it can’t be anyone I interact with on a regular basis (to prevent emotional connections from forming.) I have zero desire to go out and get some strange, but this limitation makes it so Coworker is out of bounds, so to speak…

And I already know the hypothetical, forbidden sex isn’t even likely to be as good as what I have at home— I’ve been with a LOT of men, and very few of them were good at it, and none as good as DH… I guess the idea of doing it with Coworker is alluring because of the taboo-ness of a workplace affair.

Also, I’m thinking maybe it’s that I miss feeling desired, and experiencing New Relationship Energy, like I did when I was younger and dating/sleeping around? I’m not sure how to go about asking DH to help me feel desired like that again, though. Like, I “flirt” with DH at home, and I’m always the one initiating the sex, but he rarely initiates with me, and he never flirts first…(Even if I did field that request/express that feeling tactfully, I would question if he really desired me when he did those things, or if he was just trying to placate me… is that insane ?) I feel loved. Just not particularly sexy, if you know what I mean?

Anyway, I’m just struggling with these feelings, and I just needed to get this off my chest. Thanks for listening, if you’ve read this far.

I think the best thing to do is to avoid the other guy as much as you can. If you have him on social media then restrict his account and mute him everywhere, even his phone number.

You’re liking the attention from him and that’s okay, we all like attention but you know it feels different from just flirting with a stranger. If this is something that makes you feel uncomfortable because you’ve discussed this as part of your rules with your dh then cut contact with this man.

if you and your dh are happy with your relationship and your boundaries then good for you. It’s your marriage and yes it is different from most people’s marriages but if it works for you then fair enough! One thing I think I noticed is you might feel like you’re getting the attention from the other man that you’re not getting from your dh. If so then talk to your dh about it, be honest and tell him you need more from him!

Isn’t it already ‘creating anxiety’ on your side. What’s this post if not that you’re anxious about having broken the rules? You said in your first post that ‘you’ve no desire to go out and get some strange’ (I think this was a typo, I think you meant get with some stranger?’) and that it’s harder to find women who’d want a one off. So what exactly is in this for you?

You’re missing flirtation from your husband and he’s suggested it’s because ‘you’re desperate,’ (all be it jokingly) Could that be because, even if not often having sex with them, he’s able to engage in flirtation with whom ever he pleases, and so feels less need to bother with/for this kind of frisson at home. And for the most part flirting with a known person is more fun and ego boosting than flirting with some random online, he gets to do this, you don’t. Also, for women, sex with random men can often be a bit rubbish, (low effort from uninvested man) whereas men are much more likely to enjoy this.

i think this IS impacting your marriage, you just don’t realise it. it isn’t the non monogamy per se, it’s the disparity in the rules. After all, in your shoes he’d have no need to write this post, he could just have a great time flirting, potentially have sex if the other person was happy with him being in a non monogamous relationship, feel attractive and buoyed, whereas you just get a lot of guilt and anxiety.

I just wanna shag him.

Expressed like a 14 year old boy.

It's a very legitimate question, though. Marriage is for those who want to make vows and declare their monogamy to another, ONE, person. So why do people who don't intend on keeping their vows or live monogamally choose to get married? Seems extremely counterintuitive. Like going to McDonald's to eat 6 Big Mac menus when you're trying to lose weight.

And no, it doesn't "take all sorts" to make the world go around. The world would definitely go around just fine, and be a much better place, without people like this that make a mockery of marriage, spread STDs around and make the workplace awkward by sleeping with colleagues.

Also, some things and people do need judging, because they're so ridiculous. This is one of those instances. It's good to be open-mind, but not to the extent where your brain falls out. Jesus...

What a bloody mess you have brought a child into. This will only end in tears and heartbreak and most of the heartbreak will be your poor child's.

I used to have some of the same rules in my last relationship. We broke up because ultimately we didn't give a shit if the other person was shagging someone else.

Now I am in a relationship where neither of us could cope with it and I am much happier.

I don't understand why his waxing incident means he can't satisfy you?

Children always pick up on more than their parents are aware of, it's dangerously misguided and somewhat naive to believe otherwise. We adults underestimate the innocent at our peril! Something you're possibly not considering is the shelf life of your particular lifestyle choice. Perhaps it's getting a little repetitive and predictable? You say these interactions outside your marriage are strictly sexual. No emotional connection allowed, no kissing even. So you basically stay disconnected from any hint of feelings, just to scratch that itch.

To me that seems too mechanical for something important to not be missing. Connection? I don't know you but maybe that's what this is; an actual connection (albeit work) which has put you in conflict with the "rules" you apply to your sex life.

And with respect, aren't those similar rules to what an escort would agree on with a client? I think you certainly deserve to feel a little more than a "slut for attention" but again, I'm just a stranger with an opinion!

The proximity of the randy work colleague spells trouble ahead. You're over mentioning him to hubs, the guy's in your head. Don't think your husband won't eventually begin to feel threatened, he's NOT random, you're colleagues.

I think you should try exploring the vast world of intimacy with your beloved. Cut off all contact with this idiot. He's not the answer to anything. You're just another random body to conquer so avoid him.

Enjoy your hubs.

“Isn’t it already ‘creating anxiety’ on your side. What’s this post if not that you’re anxious about having broken the rules? You said in your first post that ‘you’ve no desire to go out and get some strange’ (I think this was a typo, I think you meant get with some stranger?’) and that it’s harder to find women who’d want a one off. So what exactly is in this for you?
You’re missing flirtation from your husband and he’s suggested it’s because ‘you’re desperate,’ (all be it jokingly) Could that be because, even if not often having sex with them, he’s able to engage in flirtation with whom ever he pleases, and so feels less need to bother with/for this kind of frisson at home. And for the most part flirting with a known person is more fun and ego boosting than flirting with some random online, he gets to do this, you don’t. Also, for women, sex with random men can often be a bit rubbish, (low effort from uninvested man) whereas men are much more likely to enjoy this.
i think this IS impacting your marriage, you just don’t realise it. it isn’t the non monogamy per se, it’s the disparity in the rules. After all, in your shoes he’d have no need to write this post, he could just have a great time flirting, potentially have sex if the other person was happy with him being in a non monogamous relationship, feel attractive and buoyed, whereas you just get a lot of guilt and anxiety.”

Completely agree with @NeonGiraffe - this with bells on.

@FairPlayer274 - you’re not being completely honest with yourself. In later posts, you say you’re sure your husband loves and desires you but your earlier post talked about how you miss feeling desired by your husband. And when you flirt with your husband, he says you’re desperate. That sounds like a pretty shitty thing to say to a wife who has asked you to express sexual interest in her.

DH and I have had periods of being in an open relationship (very short-lived in reality with very little activity) and I do know others who are more expansively ethically non-monogamous, but still your relationship sounds skewed in terms of who you can sleep with and what you can do with others sexually. It feels like you’ve agreed to a set of rules which suit your husband and allow him to feel he can get away with being quite lazy and detached from you. I wonder if he would pay a bit more attention, for example, if you could sleep with other men without him there. You might want to consider whether it’s time for a bit of a renegotiation.

Yup, my 4 yo definitely guesses that while she’s having a sleepover at grandma’s house, her parents are actually at sex parties! And she also senses her daddy getting tugged off by someone who isn’t Mum while we’re away/she’s at school. So silly of me to assume otherwise!

(I’m sorry to be so sarcastic, but that just sounds ridiculous to me. She has no concept of sex, and we don’t do it or talk about it in front of her, so there’s no way she’s “picking up” on it. It’s not that hard to keep our activities under wraps.)

I’m not “disconnected from my feelings.” I feel very strongly for my husband… You have to understand that sex and intimacy are not the same thing, and for some people, these things are inherently separated, and not necessarily as a result of anything they’ve done or experienced.

There is “making love,” and then there is fucking (if you’ll excuse my language.) I could enjoy fucking a stranger and not feel anything for him, but I could never have loving, intimate, sex with someone I don’t know at all. And while I can fuck my husband too, we also have intimate sex/make love, in addition to sex that is a mixture of fucking and intimacy…It would be this way for me regardless of whether I was being sexually monogamous or not. It always has been.

I don’t want external, intimate “connections.” Like I said, I think I enjoy the taboo-ness of the hypothetical workplace affair, and I miss feeling desired. I like that Coworker is putting in effort, even if it’s just to get in my pants. I think I’d be less likely to feel this way if DH was putting in more effort at home.

I don’t agree with your proposed escort parallel at all. We’re not exchanging anything for sex. It’s just ethically non-monogamous, casual sex, made to be as low-risk as possible… Maybe some escorts also have “no kissing” rules, but like… To me, kissing is an intimate thing you only do with people you love (ironic, I know). I don’t like the idea of my husband kissing someone else. I want him to only feel and express love and intimacy like that with me.

DH has no idea I’ve been having these thoughts (unless, perhaps, I’ve been sleep talking… but he hasn’t brought it up, so I’m assuming I haven’t been) and I intend to keep them to myself. There is no reason for him to feel unnecessarily threatened or unhappy about them, because I plan to abide by his limitations faithfully.

The rules are laid out very clearly, and I haven’t broken any of them. (Though I do think I’ve created a white lie by omission.) I’m not made anxious by this situation, necessarily, but rather a little frustrated and guilty for the incomplete transparency. I said no to Coworker, however poorly, and it’s not me who’s flirting with him…But I did come a bit too close to a line that’s not to be crossed, and felt temptation. That’s scary.

“Get some strange” is a slang term for having sex with strangers, or with someone outside of your relationship, yes… I like to explore with others when DH is with me, and I suppose the ability to have sex with a stranger if DH and I were ever apart for long enough for it to become desirable to me is a nice privilege (though really, the only time we’re apart that long is when I’m at work, and oftentimes the only other men available are also in my line of work, so I can’t do anything with them for fear of ruining my professional reputation… isn’t that some garbage?) I think I probably will enjoy sex with other women in the future.

I don’t think the impact is from the disparity in limitations, but rather the lack of things that couples usually do in the beginning stages of a relationship to attract one another and create that NRE. There is no perceived need to pursue me, for him, because he already has me, and I’m always wanting sex with him. He’s taking that for granted, I think, and not realizing how it’s affecting me.

Shrugs. I don’t mind being in touch with my inner 14 yo boy

There are different kinds of monogamy. We are romantically monogamous even if not sexually monogamous, and that doesn’t violate what marriage means to us, personally. I don’t think it’s us who’s the problem if your definition of marriage feels threatened by the way we live out ours. Maybe you should do some introspection and figure out where that’s coming from?

There are some married people who have no sort of monogamy at all, but also have primary and secondary partners, the former to whom they are most committed. Not my cup of tea, and seems like a lot to navigate, IMO. But what they’re doing doesn’t affect me or my marriage at all, so I don’t care. If they’re happy, good for them.

DH and I are clean, meaning we aren’t spreading STDs, and we’re and very careful about not catching them. We don’t engage in acts that can transmit STDs with people who haven’t been recently tested, and we always use condoms with others regardless. No bodily fluids are exchanged.

What in the world do you people presume is going on? Do you think we’re throwing orgies in front of our child? Bringing home strangers every night and having noisy sex in the bedroom over? Are you having sex in front of your DC and just projecting, or what?

Again, can’t believe I’m saying this, but DD is neither involved with nor aware of our sex life. As it should be. It’s not difficult to keep it from her.

Did you experience sexual jealous in relationships before that one? I see you’ve experienced it afterwards.

I’m sure if I had previously experienced sexual jealousy, and didn’t experience it with DH, that I would conclude I didn’t love or care about him that much. But I haven’t. (I’d like to say “and I won’t, because I intend to be with DH til death due us part,” but who knows whether I’ll always feel unbothered by ENM.) I think the lack of SJ is just how I am; it doesn’t have anything to do with how I feel about my partner.

ETA: Because of the wound from the waxing incident, it wasn’t comfortable or safe for DH to have PIV with me. I don’t like receiving oral (I have a weird thing about saliva), and giving HJs/BJs obviously isn’t as satisfying for me, even if they’re enjoyable… I suppose he could have done some fingering, but that’s not as satisfying as PIV, either.

There is evidence that logically points to him desiring me (he never says no to sex with me, and he doesn’t really bother trying to get it elsewhere if I’m around.) But knowing something in your head is different than feeling it, you know? I would feel more desired if he initiated and flirted with me, and put in effort to “get” me, even though he already “has” me.

It was a hurtful thing to say, but I don’t know if he realized how badly I am feeling, or that I was being serious... I’m gonna attempt expressing it again.

I don’t want to like, scare him into initiating with me because he’s afraid of me sleeping with sexual partners who do. I want to feel like he wants me so badly that he makes the effort to seduce me of his own accord.

Sometimes I fantasize about convincing him to go on steroids, not because he needs to build more muscle, but because they supposedly drastically increase the user’s drive. His friend joked once that he’d be “chasing [me] around with an erection” if he got on testosterone, and his reply was “I don’t need to chase her 😏”

I understand how you are feeling (not the open marriage part but you do you!).

My drive has increased a lot over the last year since I’m finally feeling back to myself after having babies, but my H’s sex’s drive seems to have reduced since our pre-baby days. Wasn’t an issue when I didn’t want it but now I do I find it frustrating and hurtful even though it’s not his fault. He never pressured me when I had low drive and I think he just got used the status quo. I initiate probably 80% of the time and he jokes about it and like you I find this hurtful.

I want to feel like he desires me but because he has it on tap he doesn’t make much effort to get things started. Even though the sex is good I feel like he puts less effort in when I initiate and it’s straight to business.

Anyway didn’t want to derail your thread but wanted to say I sympathise!!

Also, very curious that you are into sex with women when you don’t like oral. I thought that was the main attraction??

I don’t know what you’re referring to re sexual jealousy. Maybe you’re confusing me with someone else.

As someone who's done the swinging scene for years as part of a emotionally monogamous relationship maybe I can share what works for us. Non- monogamy only works for us when our relationship is strong, happy and meeting all our needs. It's the icing on the cake. When we have gone through times of stress, feeling less connected it is off the table completely. My DP has no libido at all currently and that is tough and we have talked it through, and me going elsewhere isn't an option as it would upset him and going to a club or party without a libido would be setting us up to fail.

Sort out your marriage happiness for now and communicate that you want everything extracurricular stopped for both of you until you are both in a better place or even never if needed. You seem sexually unhappy at home and that is not a good place to be in if you go elsewhere for sex. Leaves you and your marriage vulnerable to catching feelings.

“There is evidence that logically points to him desiring me (he never says no to sex with me, and he doesn’t really bother trying to get it elsewhere if I’m around.) But knowing something in your head is different than feeling it, you know? I would feel more desired if he initiated and flirted with me, and put in effort to “get” me, even though he already “has” me.
It was a hurtful thing to say, but I don’t know if he realized how badly I am feeling, or that I was being serious... I’m gonna attempt expressing it again.
I don’t want to like, scare him into initiating with me because he’s afraid of me sleeping with sexual partners who do. I want to feel like he wants me so badly that he makes the effort to seduce me of his own accord.
Sometimes I fantasize about convincing him to go on steroids, not because he needs to build more muscle, but because they supposedly drastically increase the user’s drive. His friend joked once that he’d be “chasing [me] around with an erection” if he got on testosterone, and his reply was “I don’t need to chase her 😏””

@FairPlayer274 - is there some reason why you can’t have a proper discussion or review the rules with your husband? In all your replies, you seem very defensive of your arrangement exactly as it is. But actually it is not entirely working for you and it seems to have made your husband a bit lazy. @wantmorenow’s post is very helpful from that regard, I would have thought: being with others only works when their relationship is strong, happy and meeting all their needs. Your relationship isn’t in that place. You have asked your husband to show more desire for you. He’s slapped you down with a nasty comment about you being desperate. He tells his friend he doesn’t need to chase you. He takes you for granted. Meanwhile, he’s able to be off having sex with other women. Arrangements like this tend to involve a lot of talking and periodic readjustment yet you seem so unwilling to accept that perhaps the arrangement as currently framed isn’t quite working for you. Why is that?

I presume you carry some sort of notebook to ensure you remember all the rules for you and the different ones for your husband and the different ones for when you are together.
Your husband doesn't feel threatened by you with a women but has permitted the bare minimum with men so he can have more than the bare minimum with other women. That's nice of him.

Well if you think about sexually monogamous relationships, it’s not like the individuals in them never feel temptation to cheat. They either control themselves or they cheat; they don’t usually ask their partners to change their rules because the partners tend not to take it very well.

Plus I also don’t our sets of rules are the problem. It’s not like he’s with other women very often at all; it’s really only when I’m not available. He’s not “spending” his libido on other women instead of me. And I don’t even particularly want to be in sexual situations where I might catch feelings and then have to cut it off. I just want DH’s desire, effort, and attention.

Gonna try to broach the subject when I get home from my holiday

They’re not difficult to remember at all

Sexual jealousy is not wanting your partner to have sex with other people

Sorry you’re going through that, and thanks.

I don’t mind giving women oral; I like their expressions of pleasure. But there are also fingering, strap-ons, and toys to use.

Sorry I’m confused though. I said we didn’t care about who slept with who? There was no sexual jealousy because we ultimately didn’t care.