Husband affair?

[GreenBiscuit25]

im looking for a bit of clarity as I’m in shock right now.

i (f35) have been married for nearly 10 years to husband (41) we have a good marriage, we have lots of family time with our only child (son, 6)

husband usually works in the kitchen and left his laptop open, I jumped on to check a recipe whilst I made dinner and a message popped up on his work channel from a woman he’s mentioned before but rarely spoken about- I clicked on the message which opened up all their message history (probably not ok for me to do this but still)

anyway it turns out they message aLOT! Like just about every day over work channel- and especially the last few weeks- the tone is sometimes playful and flirty and sometimes just about everyday life/weekend- but rarely work stuff! A few things that stand out-

1. the tone is definitely flirty at times- her mentioning going topless in the park and him saying “tell me more”
2. from what I could gather they have set up secret hangouts (dates?!!) going for coffee and a walk- this all took place during work time but clearly took a lot of planning of diaries- both talking about being excited for it- keeping it secret from others (she even suggested they set up a fake meeting!)
3. they have planned another hangout in a couple of weeks to give them both “something to look forward to”
4. when he take about his weekends he never mentions me and she only asks him about him and or son! But I know they have worked together a while so she must know he’s married!

I honestly felt sick- he’s out with his mates tonight so doesn’t know I’ve seen it. I’ve spoken with my mum who has told me to confront him when he gets back- what do I do!

@GreenBiscuit25 I think you're handling yourself and this betrayal really well OP.
So, just to be clear, he has an Instagram account and they are still following each other on there? Even now? Well, I guess this answers my next question: why does he need you to tell him what he needs to do to start recovering your marriage? Because it hasn't even crossed his mind yet to end ALL contact with her!!! Why hasn't he unfollowed her? Better still, deleted his Insta account? How can you trust him OP if he can't even arrive at that decision himself without being told? Men!* Sigh. 🙄
*OK, some men.

Good for you - having dinner together with your son was great for your son to see that mummy & daddy are still a family unit for him - even if its not the same as before.
Well done - it must have been quite emotional and difficult for you.
I agree with some of the other posters that this needs to come from him - he has to see how destructive his behaviour has been and he has to know how he can make amends, or at least try. There doesn't appear to be much effort on his part at the moment. He is still in the 'I'll apologise and it will be okay again' stage - rather than the deep thinking stage. Leave him where he is for now.

The Instagram account - its not really a surprise unfortunately is it? You knew he was making contact with her in some way other than the work's messenger. That inner voice is always right and yet we try and hush it up. Listen to your intuition at every step.

I do have a feeling that if you give yourself more time to heal a little from this hurt and betrayal that one evening he will come round for dinner and you just wont want him there. Your feelings towards him will dissipate a little and you will decide that you don't want to continue in the marriage.

I like my pro's and cons lists - I write what I loved and missed about him and then a list about what I disliked. After a couple of months healing time there really wasn't much on the 'love/like' list.

Try and have a peaceful weekend, get out into the countryside with your son, cry if you need to, talk to a friend or family member - just go easy on yourself.

My plan for this evening is a chick flick, some Maltesers, probably a sob here and there too 🙄

@GreenBiscuit25 his getting upset shows that the penny is finally dropping. Some men and even women believe that cheating is only cheating if it’s physical.
Cheating is any, absolutely any, interaction with a person of the gender you are attracted to that you need to conceal from your primary partner.
Anything you would not say or do if your partner was there, any message or photo that you send or respond to that you could not let your partner see or know about, is cheating and disrespect of your partner and relationship. Physical touch, kissing and sex are obviously a given, but only a part (albeit a serious part) of what constitutes infidelity. The fact that he kept this from you shows he knows darned well it was wrong. Admitting it, after convincing himself it was his harmless little fantasy escape at work, will be another thing altogether. When confronted he minimised and effectively tried to tell you that you should see it as he sees it, and I’d warrant he still believed that at the time.
When that failed he decided you must be overreacting because of course he still maintained to himself that it’s nothing. More lying to himself to avoid what he knew and knows to be true, but chose to ignore in order to give himself permission to do it: what I am doing is wrong.
As time goes by at his mother’s he clearly realises that you’re not going to be convinced. You know it’s wrong, he knows it’s wrong, he knows you know it’s wrong and it won’t disappear magically any time soon.
Not excusing him in any way, shape or form, but when you’re dealing with somebody who has lied to themselves so often to justify their wrongdoing, they actually start to believe it and it can take a while (or quicker with the help of uncomfortable consequences) for them to see it clearly. At that point they see that it’s time to put aside trying to convince anybody else of their bullshit, they know it’s bullshit, and are upset by what a huge fuck up they’ve made of their lives and what the impact of their little vain, selfish trip into Laa Laa Land will cost them.
He might well be sincere with his tears, once the penny drops is when change happens. Far more ideal if it happens straightaway but that’s sadly pretty rare. They never expect to get caught, so never have the plan of what they’d do already prepared (hence The Script, the clichés are all they’ve got in the spur of the moment when caught ) and have always pushed away that scenario, because it terrifies them and adds to the cognitive dissonance of wanting to continue doing something they know is wrong but at the same time are trying to convince themselves they’re not a bad person.
Not all tears are crocodile tears. Him backing down from defending himself and saying he’ll do what it takes is promising but you’re absolutely right that for now, until he proves he means it, he stays where he is.
My friend in a similar situation (but it had turned physical when she found out) made her husband stay in a company flat for six months when he wanted to come back home. She’d thrown him out when she found out and within three weeks he had ditched OW and was begging to come back. He had a lot of work to do to convince her of his remorse and sincerity and to his credit he did it and that was twenty years ago, they are still together.
The men who immediately ditch their behaviour on abrupt discovery are rare and exist mostly in movies and tv. It doesn’t always mean they are insincere, it’s sometimes the length of time somebody who has lied to themselves for so long takes to ditch their internal bullshit narrative and smell the coffee.
You’re handling this brilliantly.

He can not fix things if he can’t or won’t voluntarily verbalise to you how he has betrayed you, let alone prove to your satisfaction that he means to do what he says. Empty words from him as yet sadly.
It shouldn’t be for you to prompt him. He needs to come to the realisation himself.
In any case, it’s not just about fixing it, or patching it up, or adjusting his conduct in a few ways, it’s about genuinely asking for forgiveness for what he now realises was such a serious betrayal of marriage trust.

Maybe he’s still hedging his bets, trying to limit the damage. He doesn’t want to fess up until he knows how much you really know.

Keep on trusting your instincts OP. They are serving you well so far.

Well done on your firm stance OP.

Has your husband actually offered anything tangible, like: "I will never contact this woman ever again" or: "I will look for a new job"?

I think he's deliberately leaving the ball in your court, hoping that you will be so "grateful" for the end of the affair that you will suggest less punitive measures.

I have been following your thread and the way he has elevated this woman above you is the stuff of heartbreak.

You have a young child to care for and finance and no one would judge you for taking him back, but this would break me. I couldn't come back from this.

Forgot to say that it’s pointless looking at other ways they might have communicated, you can bet they’ve used everything at their disposal and there’s probably an email account online you don’t know about.
You can drive yourself nuts with that stuff and it can feel like a nightmarish version of Whack A Mole, you swat one and don’t know when the next one will pop up or if there’s even going to be a next one.
He proves it’s done and he’s going no contact outside of work related stuff, having proved he’s a liar and keeps things hidden from you, you get full access to all his devices for the time being and he’s looking to work elsewhere.

His discomfort with any of this shows he’s still not committed to honesty and transparency and has stuff to hide, and therefore still untrustworthy and not a safe partner.

'Just tell me what to do' is not going to cut it. He needs to spend his time and mental energy figuring that out. I'm sorry this has happened to you.

It sounds like you handled your talk over dinner really well. But his asking you what he needs to do!

He knows exactly what he needs to do right now. He needs to delete all forms of communication with the OW, & show evidence of this. Tell you that it’s over with her, & how he plans interactions with her going forward given they work together.

He’s providing no reassurance or way forward, but instead positioning himself as the tearful victim who’s just awaiting orders. Deeply hurtful & insincere.

I’m so sorry he’s doing this to you. He’s not the passive victim, he actively chose a course of action that would still be (may well be) ongoing had you not found out.

So he has said he’ll do whatever he needs to to make it right but hasn’t come up with the obvious solution of no longer messaging her about anything personal or meeting up outside work, and being open with his Teams chat to prove this? He needs you to tell him this.

Did he offer any reassurance? Has he said he’s not meeting her this week?

Finding out about the Instagram just proves what you have being saying. He had 15 friends in his whole world on instagram and she is one of them. A woman you have never met and he claims means nothing.

I wouldn’t saying anything about it right now. If next time you discuss this, he is firm about wanting to make it work, I would call him out and ask to see his Instagram messages. If he refuses I would end it and proceed with divorce. You can’t live with secrets and lies. Only complete transparency and acknowledgement of the betrayal can lead to true reconciliation. Anything less is just paper overing the cracks.

I’m so angry for you. If even up until the point before you mentioned divorce, he seems to think thinking about another woman’s tits as well as telling her he’s thinking about them is ok!
I still cannot believe he’s not offering assurances, he’s being passive leaving it all up to you. These are not the actions of a repentant man. He wants to lose as little as possible.
You’ve handled yourself wonderfully @GreenBiscuit25 when your heart must be breaking.

I was thinking exactly this.

When you next meet up, ask to see his Instagram messages. Do not accept any delays, or for him to go out of the room with his phone. He either shows you the messages instantly or it’s game over.

There’s a chance that messaging away from work might be more risqué, so it’s worth seeing so you know where you stand.

I’d also want to know exactly what he’s told her. Has he stopped the messaging? If so, what did he say?

You're absolutely right in that he needs to take the lead on this - which he doesn’t seem to be doing. Sad puppy eyes and empty words are worthless.

You are handling this so well OP. It’s an awful situation and it can’t be easy at all.

He had 15 friends in his whole world on instagram and she is one of them. A woman you have never met and he claims means nothing.

This. 💯

He wants you to tell him what to do, in true man style, 'to fix it'. He wants to know what appearances to make to get you back and his comfy life back to normal. It doesn't mean changing his behaviour or realising what he's done. He'll just get smarter about it.

I'd definitely ask to see his insta messages, and check every messaging app he has on his phone. If they are messaging elsewhere, you can be sure he's cheating, or planning to.

Hi OP.
I think you are getting great advice here.
Just to say i think you are handling this very well. You are amazing, you sound very thoughtful. x

I found out my husband had been have an affair for 5 years.
I’ve seen work emails spanning those 5 years. There was lots of flirting and innuendos. I absolutely know that the communications on work emails were toned down (I’m guessing there’s always a very slight chance that in any work place, emails could have been seen / retrieved by somebody else).
He or AP would email saying they needed some help in the “stationary room” (it wasn’t the stationary room, I’ve changed type of room to “stationary” so as not to be too outing)
He’s now admitted that they used to go for sex in the “stationary room”.
Do you think that “walks and coffees” could be a euphemism for something more physical?
You say there was a lot of planning of diaries and both being “excited” about it. Im struggling to see how 2 adults would get excited about going for a “coffee” together. My husband and AP used daytime hotels during work time.
Please consider this. If you had asked me prior to me finding out, I would have absolutely put my life on it, that my husband was not capable of these things.
Most of the watsapp messages were deleted. He has admitted that she sent sexual/ nude recordings.
Please ask him to show you his phone, also search his photos including any in the “hidden file”.
This is the most painful thing I have / am, dealing with.
OP I wish you all the best and I really hope that their secret, exciting meetings really are just for a coffee and a walk.

@Iwillcomeouttheotherend
“Please consider this. If you had asked me prior to me finding out, I would have absolutely put my life on it, that my husband was not capable of these things.”
Great post, but I’d be careful and remember that messages can’t be unread and recordings unseen/ unheard. They’re just more proof of wrongdoing rather than productive or helpful to you sometimes. You have to be careful that you know there’s stuff you need to know, and that you’re not ‘pain shopping’. Also know that their messages etc whilst hurtful to you, were part and parcel of having an affair, not the greatest love story of all time.
As for no prior suspicion: This is the biggest part of the shock, I know from personal experience.
The out-of-character thing that blows our minds, is the thing that they’re actually getting off on: the brand-new exciting version of themselves that they project for some silly woman to dote on. It’s iall part of the fantasy they create for themselves. It’s grand-scale reinvention and delusion and a pretty laughable (if it wasn’t so painful) and grim one at that.
I am so sorry this has happened to you. Thankfully I never saw the messages, all deleted. To me they weren’t the ‘answer’ anyway. He’d had an affair. He’d answered my questions. The details wouldn’t change anything but they’d do more harm to me.
I know what goes on and I’m not daft so I stopped looking. It was no newsflash to me that people in affairs flirt, use innuendo, flatter each other physically and sexually, reassure one another that they can’t stop thinking about each other, or can’t stop thinking about last night/ yesterday afternoon or that hotel blah blah blah and get off on the anticipation of their next meeting like anyone chasing a dopamine hit does. It’s part and parcel of how affairs work and pretty much affair-speak #101. The affair ‘script’.
If it wasn’t so horrendous I’d find it funny that all these ‘special’ affairs that are apparently so different and unique according to affair partners are pretty much the same scenario acted out, tale as old as time with the same jaded script.
It doesn’t mean that that person is more special or more sexy than anybody else, they’re just the person cast in the lead role of the escape from reality fantasy that’s been created.
My husband told me, “You don’t get it. It wasn’t about her, or even you, it was about me. She could have been anybody. She was somebody I found attractive who was willing to make herself available to me. She made it so easy, I couldn’t believe it. It was the secret/ risky situation and never-ending flattery I was getting off on, I’d never been that guy before. It was utter madness. I felt like James fucking Bond. I’ve been a selfish idiot and I’ve ruined my life. It was utter madness.”
Code words and nicknames add to the secrecy thrill and ‘us’ versus ‘them’ Romeo and Juliet-esque nonsense. It’s more cringe than high romance to me, OP’s husband is being forced to see the reality if it now that it’s no longer a secret. He’s probably quite rightly becoming ashamed of it now.
Once reality rips the lid off this twaddle it’s like seeing the inside of a nightclub in daylight. It’s exciting in the dark, behind a closed door with the music thumping and lights flashing, but daylight reveals that it’s no more than a drink-stained, stinky, shabby room, where it’s better to be a bit drunk to have a good time and you say and do stuff in the party mood that you shudder at yourself for the next morning.
The messages are just proof of the cheating, the content reveals what a cringeworthy twat he’s being in the affair, they are no value judgement of her versus you or anything else except his idiocy. They have no real meaning, they’re just a means to an end.
OP they do it in the heat of the moment and because he knows what little importance it had, he doesn’t get why you can’t see that and it took your boundaries to make him see it.
Don’t let the guff they wrote haunt and hurt you, if he’s sincere and the penny has actually dropped and he’s stopped lying to himself now, he’ll see it for what it was and should be shuddering at himself.
Time to prove OW and that workplace are unimportant to him and prioritise you and your wishes, or he can stay at his mum’s permanently. Idiot.

That’s so beautifully written. I have never heard of the affair script before. I must have a look at that.

I’d think that even if he promised you the world, he’s still effectively cheated on you. So that’s up to you if you could see past that or not

@Thewookiemustgo your last post is pure poetry describing the affair, it explains beautifully the “script” of an affair and infatuation they experience.

Your previous post though-wouldn’t agree with it.
My XH had an affair spanning for years. He was only “upset” after I left with the kids.

I agree he was delusional and high on dopamine while with her but he treated kids and me like shit.

He wasn’t happy with me so went looking somewhere else. I left so he could be happy with her (as he claimed to be) and he’s not happy because I left.
Or maybe because when the shit hit the fan OW came back to her H and suddenly he found himself alone and lonely?

I tried to find a logic in it and couldn’t.
Here I am 2 years later. Alone and content (not happy yet as still dealing with repercussions of our break up) but still licking my wounds. They run VERY deep.

@TangerinePlate I’m so very, very sorry. That’s bloody awful. Clearly no regret on his part if he says he was happier with her, good for you for having the strength to let him bloody have her then. If my husband had gone to his OW or ever told me he was happier with her I’d have shut the door behind him and never had him back. For your husband to do this for years must have been the most awful shock and I can’t imagine the pain you must have suffered. Again, I am so very sorry.
I’m only ever talking from personal experience, I hope my previous post didn’t upset you. I’m truly sorry if it did.
Purely through personal experience, (people confide in me a lot, if you’re wondering how I know this stuff. I’m no spring chicken and these people are close friends, friends of friends who told me in confidence and even a family member over several decades) I now believe that cheating is way, way more common than people think and also that there are different types of cheats and different types of affairs.
Some are a one-off cheat, completely regret it on discovery and don’t want it, their tears really are genuine. I’ve known five of them, all still in happy marriages many years on.
Others leave for OW/ OM, I’ve known two people who did that, one couple still together, years later, in the other couple the OW from one marriage was cheated on by the OM from another so they split up. Apparently she could trust a cheat, cheat herself but not abide infidelity when he did it to her. Oblivious of the double standards but hey ho.
I’ve only ever met two total players. One was a friend’s husband and one I went out with myself before I met my husband. He had a girlfriend I didn’t know about when I met him, he married her and cheated multiple times, they are still together and I know through others that he still cheats. She turns a blind eye. They clearly cry crocodile tears and then do it again because they want a comfy home life but also want the thrill and validation and can’t stop chasing it.
I’ve very sadly known one suicide because they were so ashamed of what they did, and heard through a friend of a friend about another suicide.
The damage done by affairs is appalling. Nothing enrages me more than seeing it romanticised and glorified on tv and films and even in songs. It’s abuse and damage and there are genuine victims.
Take care of yourself and I hope you’re getting help and support with how deep the wounds go, I read that outside of the death of a child it’s the worst thing you can go through and I believe that, my beloved parents’ deaths were easier to grieve than what my husband did.
I saw something on Facebook from somewhere called The Mind Body Training Institute (not advocating it, don’t know who they are but the blurb resonated with me) only an hour ago that I will quote if I can find it: (just found it!)
“ Betrayal can dysregulate the nervous system, fragment identity, and trigger symptoms of PTSD. It often shatters core assumptions about safety, love, and identity-leaving the betrayed feeling disoriented, ashamed, and uncertain about what, or whom, to believe, including themselves.
Betrayal can destabilize identity, prompting obsessive thoughts, self-doubt, and deep relational distress.”
That’s a ton of hugely damaging stuff, there’s more I could add to it.
I wish you all the best with your healing, it can take years to get through the damage they cause. Take care. X

@Thewookiemustgo - awww what a lovely message to @TangerinePlate ♥️
And so true.

@Thewookiemustgo thank you very much for your very insightful posts ❤️.
MN and some fab posters helped me a lot to understand what was happening and what would be possible outcomes.

You didn’t offend or hurt me in any way, you just shed the light about the affair and how it looked like from the view of wayward spouse.
It stroke a chord that it was all about him and how she made him feel.

To me it’s actually helpful as it doesn’t mean that I was so unattractive that he decided to find some “fresh meat”
It reveals the level of involvement and how everything (even wife and kids) became irrelevant and seen as obstacles on the way to achieve total fulfilment with OW.

Funnily enough when he came back to empty house and the “obstacles” on his way to happiness gone he (for the lack of better words) shat himself.

I’m not going to judge anybody for leaving/staying with spouse who strayed.

We all have different lives,circumstances, perception, experience and tolerance.

Only we know how are we going to proceed and what outcome we want.

Apologies to @GreenBiscuit25 for derailing her thread. Hope you find peace in your life whatever conclusion you reach.

Onwards and upwards. Thank you ❤️

@TangerinePlate my last word here to you and OP is that it’s not about how OW made him feel, the affair thrill was what made him feel good, the secrecy, risk and excitement.Its why so many affair relationships fail after discovery. OW couldn’t give him what he had with you, he found that out far too late. Some succeed but most don’t, maybe not always straightaway but the reality of the once exciting secret now becoming routine and the discomfort of losing their primary partner, home life and family life shows it up for what it was.
Of course he shat himself. Everybody does when they see that they’ve made a massively wrong life choice which they can’t reverse. Years of chasing something he found out he didn’t even want! Bloody fool.
OP’s husband has just discovered this and is hopefully in full reverse gear trying to prove to OP he’s worth it when he showed her a version of himself that truly isn’t.

@Thewookiemustgo as always you have it in one - their are some who are indeed lifelong philanderers- there’s a whole other group who use it as a form of escapism and diversion at points in life they are feeling a bit meh about everything - my H said very very similar to yours- wasn’t about the other person , was about being a more exciting and ‘in demand’ version of themselves at a very particular point when they were vulnerable to ego fluffing .

From everything you say, it’s clear he has no real intention of changing and he will continue or do this again without a doubt.
The telling thing was at your meal when he asked you what you wanted him to do. Him asking this demonstrates that 1. Not knowing what to do means he doesn’t really know or care about what he’s done wrong and 2. He wants to put the ball in you court, which takes the pressure off him and puts further burden on you.
I really don’t think you have a hope of a good quality reconciliation. He might come back, but he won’t come back a better person.