Husband affair?

[GreenBiscuit25]

im looking for a bit of clarity as I’m in shock right now.

i (f35) have been married for nearly 10 years to husband (41) we have a good marriage, we have lots of family time with our only child (son, 6)

husband usually works in the kitchen and left his laptop open, I jumped on to check a recipe whilst I made dinner and a message popped up on his work channel from a woman he’s mentioned before but rarely spoken about- I clicked on the message which opened up all their message history (probably not ok for me to do this but still)

anyway it turns out they message aLOT! Like just about every day over work channel- and especially the last few weeks- the tone is sometimes playful and flirty and sometimes just about everyday life/weekend- but rarely work stuff! A few things that stand out-

1. the tone is definitely flirty at times- her mentioning going topless in the park and him saying “tell me more”
2. from what I could gather they have set up secret hangouts (dates?!!) going for coffee and a walk- this all took place during work time but clearly took a lot of planning of diaries- both talking about being excited for it- keeping it secret from others (she even suggested they set up a fake meeting!)
3. they have planned another hangout in a couple of weeks to give them both “something to look forward to”
4. when he take about his weekends he never mentions me and she only asks him about him and or son! But I know they have worked together a while so she must know he’s married!

I honestly felt sick- he’s out with his mates tonight so doesn’t know I’ve seen it. I’ve spoken with my mum who has told me to confront him when he gets back- what do I do!

What a strange question.

It isnt up to anyone apart from him to work out how to prove it. If he is serious, he will manage to.

I think after infidelity you need clearly stated boundaries to protect yourself and you need to be honest as to what you need to see happen for you to even consider giving him and the marriage another chance.
By default these become ‘ultimatums’ but if you can’t and won’t consider a reconciliation without them, then there’s no point leaving him to guess and mind read what needs to happen, he needs to know what the expectations are.
Some men think with the kind of logic that is as simple as ‘stop doing the stuff she’s angry about’ and think that’s all that needs to happen. They stop cheating and do a few good deeds around the house, buy some flowers and say sorry and think that’s the end of it. They are then totally confused and irritated that their wife is still hurt, angry and traumatised and still wants to discuss ‘that old chestnut’ when they have ditched OW and are putting in some effort. Real change is hard work.
Decent communication has broken down completely, there have been lies, secrets, dishonesty and betrayal. Honest, open communication of how both sides feel and how both sides want to move forward is key.
Yes, he could fake reconciliation and follow what OP wants and still cheat or prepare himself to leave. He could still decide to do that off his own bat with no ultimatums or requests from OP at all and nobody would be able to tell the difference. Better if it comes from him, yes, but whilst I could recommend what needs to happen, I can’t know what OP specifically needs or wants to happen and besides the obvious, even he probably won’t either, especially as he’s probably quite rightly panicking now.
You can never know anybody’s true motives for what they do, but you can’t reconcile without going back and reconciling, so you have to either accept that if he says he wants to reconcile, he actually does, and isn’t just ‘walking the walk’ , or decide that you’re not going to give him a second chance at all because he might not mean it. There’s never a way round that one and it’s why some people won’t even consider reconciling with a person who has cheated. Which is also fair enough.
It won’t be the ultimatums and requests that ‘force’ him to do this, if he’s still a dishonest cheat he’ll do it anyway.
That’s why it’s only a second chance, not an absolute given, that if he comes home it means you’ll put up with any more of it.
Ultimatums or no ultimatums, you are always risking believing somebody you know has lied to you before if you choose to reconcile. Ultimatums are not the problem , just a setting out of minimum expectations. Better they know what you want so that they can’t set their own agenda or resent it afterwards.
You can only take them at face value and have firm boundaries and consequences that you are willing to follow through on. It’s a risk and it sucks but there it is.
Only OP knows him well enough to decide if he and their marriage are worth another chance and he can either step up and listen or not.

I wouldn’t be meeting with him to talk at the weekend unless that is what you want and feel ready to do. He’ll love bomb you and promise you the world when the fact that he has cheated on you, is swept to one side.
It’s your life and it’s easy for me to say you should leave him but for me personally, if my husband had done what he has to me, I wouldn’t be able to get past it. It wasn’t a drunken office party snog or shag, it’s a well thought out and planned affair involving emotions. He didn’t want to talk to you then did he?!

Did the ow actually know he was married?

Op said there was no mention of her in their messages, just their child.

I think if he has pretended to be single/separated etc then there is no question that the lovely op should end it now and save herself years of misery.

This thread has been so helpful to me.

If a person lies and doesn’t see a problem with keeping secrets, they are not honouring the vows you made.

If they don’t see a problem with what they are doing, until they are caught then that’s their personality. They think this behaviour is ok.

If they are playing it down and minimising something that is upsetting to you, that is not showing love or kindness.

The problem here is that he’s not acknowledging what he’s doing is wrong, either to himself or to the Op (I suspect the latter but he may not have acknowledged the extent of what he’s done to himself). He’s acting like it’s a minor indiscretion. Without full and frank acknowledgement and understanding that what he’s doing is not within the bounds of their agreed marriage contract and relationship, there is no way to move on - if op takes him back without acknowledgement it’ll be tacit agreement for him to carry on either with this one, or another one in the future. Have you sent him literature about emotional affairs for him to mug on @GreenBiscuit25 ?

Where would I find decent information on emotional affairs also please. I wish I had all this information many years ago.

How have you found the last week? Have there been any positives to not having him around? These are the questions you need to be thinking about and be concerned about yourself, not him and what he wants.

In my experience when a relationship has broken down, there isn't an easy way back. The temptation is to patch things up to stop the temporary pain, and that just prolongs the inevitable and it breaks down all over again down the line, often even more painfully.

You've already got through the hard first week - the only way is up.

@3luckystars try Surviving Infidelity and Affair Recovery, both free with discussion forums.
https://www.affairrecovery.com/types-of-affairs/emotional-affair

@GreenBiscuit25 you should share this with you DH, his reaction will be very telling.

Latest post on Chump Lady blog could be helpful too. The ads are annoying but just skate past them.
https://www.chumplady.com/he-cant-decide-between-us/

They also spoke about how close they had grown recently, how nice that’s been and why had it taken so long.

How close they’ve become and why had it taken so long. In other words, why has it taken so long to get together. This is disturbing, @GreenBiscuit25. They are acknowledging their close emotional bond which is romantic and not platonic, as their flirtatious dynamic/sexual frisson/exciting dates prove. H has been determined to protect their burgeoning relationship by downplaying it and marginalizing you.

He is giving as much as he receives in this affair. He and OW are equally invested and gratified. Although you are being devalued by both, H’s culpability and perpetration of harm toward you, his Wife, is greater. I shudder to think of how he is behaving with OW in person everyday.

It doesn’t sound like H has stopped his affair. Blocking your access to his work laptop is very telling. He may be begging to return home, but I would keep him away for now. You would be extremely foolish to reconcile until he has fulfilled all of your requirements. You must be tough about this, @GreenBiscuit25.

If you want to move forward with H, I advise you to implement @PorpoiseWithPurpose‘s list of conditions on page 24. They are the gold standard in infidelity recovery, and H must deliver on all of them. If he doesn’t, you will be heading for a false reconciliation. Of course, you may decide that too much damage has already been done and that restoring trust is impossible.

I experienced similar and tried for a couple of years but I was always wondering if they were still in touch and what was going on in his head. I was never able to trust him again. I couldn't live my life wondering whether when he looked at me he was thinking of her. We're divorced now and I'm happier than ever. I hope you're ok.

Did he end up with her after you split? Just out of interest . It’s amazing all these ‘just friends’ who end up together later on .

This is exactly why I couldn’t stay with someone who cheated on me.
I think I would become paranoid , suspicious and full of anger.
As others have said , OP’s dh’s refusal to acknowledge his behaviour would be a dealbreaker . He wants to return home for the comfort but is not yet prepared to recognise how extremely damaging his actions have been

Many years ago when I was young and naive I had what I now know to be an emotional affair with a colleague which turned physical. It sounds exactly like the relationship with your DH here. He was so ‘into me’ it didn’t occur to me he was married, more fool me. He never told me he wasn’t, I never asked.
His wife contacted me and explained very kindly and gently that he was indeed married. I had no idea - she was so dignified and explained the impact this was having on her. I stopped it immediately, mortified. Aside from realising what a duplicitous (older, of course) dick he was, knowing what this was doing to his wife brought me up straight. She didn’t accuse or blame me, and her kindness and dignity has always stayed with me.
Normally I wouldn’t advocate contacting the OW but it sounds from the chat that your marriage is a lie by omission. She may back off if you speak to her - which won’t resolve the issue of your husband but might stop things going any further and buy breathing space for him to come to his senses and take accountability for his behaviour. Particularly if they both know you can shop them and their messages to their employer.

I now realise after reading this that my husband had ‘an affair’ with his ex girlfriend many times over the course of our marriage.

It wasn’t physical (that I know of) but it still hurt that I was not enough for him and he betrayed my trust by continuing to remain in contact with her, texting her etc. and hiding from me, when he knew it would hurt me. It was all brushed under the carpet because ‘nothing physical happened’ not just by my husband but also my sister and also by the marriage counsellor we were with at the time as ‘that was nothing compared to what other men did’

It was something. It’s was wrong and is not something that people in loving relationships should be doing. Thanks again for this thread.

Yes but it wasn't long before they split. I met someone else first then and we've been happy for a few years now. My ex has only recently met someone.

@GreenBiscuit25

Not being goady, but what do you expect to accomplish in speaking with him this weekend?

Do you expect him to tell you the truth? To admit he's emotionally attached to her? You know he lies, so what are his words actually worth?

Even if you sit him down and pour out all your feelings about this, what do you expect him to 'do' with that knowledge? If he was capable of 'getting it' then he wouldn't have gotten involved with OW to start with.

You can set 'conditions' on his returning (if that's what you want) but how sure are you that he'll keep those conditions. I've found that when a cheater comes home with promises never to cheat again, all it usually does is make them 'sneakier' about their cheating. And if your trust in him is broken, it usually has permanent repercussions. Do you want to live with constant suspicion of where he is, what he's doing, and who he's with?

Think things through thoroughly and carefully before you engage in any dialogue with him.

Well it’s not forcing him.
If he seriously wants to move forward with the marriage and is genuinely remorseful, these are actions that he would want to take to prove himself to OP.
If he doesn’t want to, then it gives OP the clarity she needs to walk away.

Thanks again everyone- there is some really great advice people have given. Thank you all for taking the time to offer your thoughts and experiences, share books and further reading or just showing your support. It really is a supportive community.

he came round last night for dinner- son went upstairs to play and we talked. I basically said I don’t see what’s changed in this week apart- I’m still left incredibly betrayed- he’s not given me any assurances that this won’t continue and I don’t feel he’s really seen it as cheating in any way shape or form.

I said he’s crossed multiple boundaries for me and he must have known that as he’s never mentioned her or very rarely yet has spent hours messaging her, spending 121 time, arranging meet ups etc.

i told him if we have any chance of making our marriage work I would need him to think about what steps he thinks he needs to take to repair this. I told him I’ve been getting legal and financial advice to understand options and right now I don’t see how I can trust him again. I don’t care if nothing physical has happened, to me this is already cheating on me.

he got upset- promised to make things right snd do whatever it takes. I said for now I need more time snd for him to stay at his mums whilst he thinks about what changes he’s prepared to make- he asked me specifically what I want him to do and I said- you need to think about it and I will too.

but I also understand we can make all the promises about changes or behaviour but if I can’t trust him then I don’t see how it works. Anyway after he left I remembered he had an old Instagram account. He’s always been one of those- too above social media- and we never post pics of us or son on there etc. he only has 3/4 pics on there in total and about 15 friends. But yeah she’s on there- and they are following each other. So I’m guessing they have been messaging on there too.

@GreenBiscuit25 aww that must have been another stomach churning blow when you saw the instagram stuff. But it’s not really surprising given what he’s up to.

My DH had a history of having a “work wife” in every new job. Lots of texting/phoning when not at work etc. I think he liked the attention as he had a body image problem (something he thinks makes him ugly but he’s actually very attractive) but I hated it. Maybe not as bad as your DH but I understand your emotions around this.

Im not a LTB type (unless violence, abuse or crime) as none of us know what’s going on in a marriage but I do agree with PPs that it needs to be him making amends. My DH stopped all the work-wife nonsense after about the third time when I sat him down and explained how it made me feel. We are good now and I’ve zero trust issues.

Good luck ❤️💐

Well done OP. I hope he steps up and makes things right so far as he can do. However don’t forget your needs matter as well, it’s not just all about him and what he wants. Really think about what you want going forward and put yourself and your child first.

Sounds like you said everything you wanted to say and have left the ball in his court.
Have you a clear idea in your head of what he needs to do and by when?

I get the impression that at the moment you don't think anything he can do will make you trust him again, might be wrong. I guess you can only wait to see what he does and if your feelings change.

I have to say up to now he hasn't done anything that would make me change my mind. Ignore his getting upset, probably more about his life getting less cushy and not about the thought of hurting you or losing you

Thanks for the update @GreenBiscuit25 . Has he confessed to his mum? Did he say whether it’s been business as usual with the texts/dates with OW?

I think I would find it hurtful that he’s dumbfounded about what actions he could take to make amends. For me personally, my hard line would likely be for him to cut all contact and find a new job. That’s the least he can do. But it sounds like he’s under the impression that dating another woman is okay.