Husband affair?

[GreenBiscuit25]

im looking for a bit of clarity as I’m in shock right now.

i (f35) have been married for nearly 10 years to husband (41) we have a good marriage, we have lots of family time with our only child (son, 6)

husband usually works in the kitchen and left his laptop open, I jumped on to check a recipe whilst I made dinner and a message popped up on his work channel from a woman he’s mentioned before but rarely spoken about- I clicked on the message which opened up all their message history (probably not ok for me to do this but still)

anyway it turns out they message aLOT! Like just about every day over work channel- and especially the last few weeks- the tone is sometimes playful and flirty and sometimes just about everyday life/weekend- but rarely work stuff! A few things that stand out-

1. the tone is definitely flirty at times- her mentioning going topless in the park and him saying “tell me more”
2. from what I could gather they have set up secret hangouts (dates?!!) going for coffee and a walk- this all took place during work time but clearly took a lot of planning of diaries- both talking about being excited for it- keeping it secret from others (she even suggested they set up a fake meeting!)
3. they have planned another hangout in a couple of weeks to give them both “something to look forward to”
4. when he take about his weekends he never mentions me and she only asks him about him and or son! But I know they have worked together a while so she must know he’s married!

I honestly felt sick- he’s out with his mates tonight so doesn’t know I’ve seen it. I’ve spoken with my mum who has told me to confront him when he gets back- what do I do!

Totally agree with the ever-sensible MsDogLady.
He’s so addicted to his grubby little secret high that he’s not thinking straight. Why? Because he thinks he can pull a few stunts and say a few words and you’ll forget all about it. He’s minimised it in his own head so often that he just can’t understand why you don’t understand that it’s ‘nothing’ or just ‘harmless firtation’. He’s got this all wrong, not you.
At the end of the day he’s still your husband and every minute he’s allowed to dither he’s still prioritising her and not his marriage or you. Therefore he’s still cheating, therefore it’s a simple “Do you want to be married to me or single?”
And if he wants to be married to you he changes jobs and proves he’ll move heaven and earth to cut OW out of his life.
My husband cheated, he didn’t want to split up, so he got an immediate ultimatum which included a non negotiable to do list of what I expected to see happen and he did it with no complaints. He also took full responsibility and blamed me for none of it.

Time for you husband to prove that’s what he wants to continue to be. Or out he goes.
I’m only saying that because you’ll tear yourself apart if you compromise even a tiny bit with this man. There are no compromises for cheats and liars. They change their ways or take their lies and selfishness elsewhere.

@Thewookiemustgo I agree as always with you - my H was told the same .

@Crikeyalmighty it’s a bubble that needs bursting. My husband was totally disgusted with himself and found it very hard to live with what he’d done. But for me, the most telling thing he said to show just how removed from reality this crap is was “I can’t believe how quickly it all turned to shit’, referring to his relationship with/ ‘feelings’ for OW.
He’d convinced himself of all sorts of crap within the affair bubble but once the two compartments collided he was forced to see the truth and his internal narrative about who she was and who he thought I was at the time no longer stacked up. Terrified him to see the extent to which he could lie to himself, me and just about anybody when he was in a corner. When your self image as a good person doesn’t match your actions and the lies you tell yourself fall apart you’re in a very dark place indeed. Add the fact that you got yourself there through your own deliberate choices and pulled your loved ones into the abyss with you and it’s no wonder some men commit suicide. And it’s no wonder they lie and minimise when found out because who wants to face that about themselves?

@Thewookiemustgo yes this is why I think ‘reasons’ are complicated - it’s not always the ‘something missing/wrong in the marriage as many think ‘. My H was adamant that it was only ever an emotional thing and that our marriage was good - he says it was a distraction at a point when stuff in our ‘life’ was going a bit wrong, rather than our marriage - business issues, his mum terminally ill and having someone fluffing his ego up and getting pleasant feelings towards someone made it that not everything in life at that point was so negative. Not dissimilar in terms of distraction away from a ton of negative shit to turning to drink or overeating etc - just of course far more hurtful to me. He accepts he was a bit ‘off his head’ and that it was an awful thing to do and a very very piss poor coping mechanism and how hurtful it was to me.

Same scenario here but won’t go into the stuff and crises that went on around my husband before this started as amongst many other events going on the main one involved him being a witness for somebody in a law case and would be outing.
At the same time I’d got a parent with dementia taking up my time plus young teen kids and their important exams plus a very dear friend passed away suddenly and unexpectedly, so maybe my eye was off the ball with how distracted / preoccupied he actually was at the time because we’d both got a ton of stress going on. As long as we were both coping I didn’t think anything was ‘wrong’.
I don’t mean I think I’m to blame or added to why he did what he did, I mean that if things had been easier and less full on I might have been more in tune with him and seen that things weren’t right and challenged him sooner. Hindsight is a beautiful thing though and I stopped kicking myself that I didn’t know at the time years ago so don’t want to go back there.
None of it an excuse in any way of course. Interesting that your case is another where life stressors brought character weaknesses and selfishness to the fore. It seems to make a certain personality type vulnerable to an affair. They still have to give in and choose it though. Their responsibility.
When he met OW she was also having a shit time and of course they became shoulders to cry on which fanned damaged egos on both sides. The shit time got morphed into they were both in shit relationships to excuse their cheating. Their boundary crossing got justified by mine and her partner’s alleged shortcomings. As people say though, funny how it’s always the ten/ twenty years their junior attractive female rather than Dave from accounts whose shoulder they choose to cry on. 🙄
I’m not sure which thread I wrote it on but recently I noted how many affairs seem to be preceded by major life events. Never an excuse though, plenty of people if not all of us have major life events at one point or another and never cheat. It was just an observation.
I write this in the hope that OP finds some useful stuff out of our stories but will stop now out of respect for the thread and OP.

@Thewookiemustgo yep - I think some people are just always on the sniff throughout life and others have had poor coping mechanisms around life stresses and look for distractions - as you say I had totally took my eye off the ball at that point and was very distracted myself too . It is what it is and has taught me that life isn’t black and white - in my 1st marriage I was the one shitting on my H too ( I genuinely was unhappy but no excuse on my part) so have experience on both sides of the coin -

With all the respect she also is a villain. Knowingly pursuing a married man with a kid? While she is clearly aware he is married? She is as bad as he is. And yes, I insist on the name I called her earlier.

What was the name ?

just a quick update- I’ve managed to get through this week so far- over half way there. Have minimised messaging to matters relating to our son, school, pick ups etc. he’s sent more messages saying he wants to talk, he’s desperate to move back etc, I’m going to hold on until tje weekend snd try to sit down and talk to him snd explain more about how all this made me feel.

in terms of the OW? Reading her messages to my husband again was painful- she definitely gave him plenty of encouragement, flirty comments etc. he told her about this trendy cafe near us and said it was always full of cool, beautiful people. She said “you must be the poster boy for that place” snd always uses lots of heart emojis etc. lots of comments like this and clearly leading him on. They also spoke about how close they had grown recently, how nice that’s been and why had it taken so long. It’s also how much they both look forward to planning their meet ups etc. so yeah there’s lots of names I’ve thought about calling her, but the reality is he should have shut this down much much earlier.

hes taken all his work laptop etc away so I have no idea if he’s still talking and messaging her like thid snd they were due to go on another “date” next week to a restaurant she had always wanted to try! Honestly couldn’t make this stuff up.

Honestly OP I wouldn't be sitting down with him this weekend.

If you know the date and time of the restaurant outing then I would a) either phone on the day as H's receptionist to check the booking time or phone as OW to check the time or b) do a drive by of the restaurant and see if they're there.

Yes. Initially I had said there was nothing to be gained by catching him at the restaurant.

But things have changed.

Now that he should feel the whole dynamic has caused trouble in his marriage, itcelukc be telling if he still gues through with the “date.”

Bear in mind, too, there might have been a venue change if he knows you knew.

when you sit down with him, you need to have your speech ready.

be extremely calm, tell him he’s betrayed your marriage vows and you’re going to divorce him unless he does the following to rebuild your trust:

-acknowledge he’s fucked up and sincerely apologise

-give you full access to his work laptop and phone

-quit his job

-book you both into marriage counselling

-cut all contact with the work woman

-whenever you want to talk about this situation and how it’s made you feel, he needs to listen, acknowledge and empathise. He can never, ever minimise your feelings or tell you to “stop harping on about it”

It’s the only way forward. If he shows no effort or balks at these suggestions, there’s no going back.

you will resent him for the rest of your married days and will never trust him again.

Good to hear you are making it through the week. Well done on not getting drawn into it over text. Sounds like you are handling it all very well considering. This show of strength is invaluable. It lets him know you are not someone that will tolerate this behaviour and he can’t have the best of both worlds.

Remember being desperate to come home isn’t the same as being desperate to resolve the issue to ensure you are never in this position again.

Beware of him love bombing you. He needs to show real accountability and change. Good thing about Teams is I’m pretty sure the messages can’t be deleted without showing it as deleted and it’s easily recoverable.

If he shows you his messages with her from this week and there are no daily personal messages with him showing he is naturally pulling back or an explicit message cancelling the meeting / making it clear that their communication must remain professional, then they have gone to another method of communication.

It’s up to him to prove that you can trust him. I wouldnt accept anything he says without him showing proof.

Remember after his behaviour his privacy should not be his main concern. If he acts like this, then walk away and save yourself the pain.

Has his parents been in touch? Do they know what is going on?

There is little point to continue in the marriage if she has to force any of these steps.
What sort of life it will be? Both living in misery.

This. With bells on.

OP isn’t forcing him to do anything, mate. She’s giving him an ultimatum.
It’s up to him to act accordingly & show remorse.
If he doesn’t, she leaves.
Simple.

I honestly still think you or not even you but someone who knows both of you should casually be at the same place as him and his little date.

Cheaters deserve calling out and feeling embarrassed. He needs to snap out of his little fantasy and that desperate 🐮 needs to see that there’s an actual person being hurt by their selfishness and need for adrenaline.

Ultimatums are practically forcing someone to to take certain steps. What will hapen: he will say yes, agree to all of the above(because he doesn't want to divorce, or wants ducks in a row first), when get better at sneaking around, OP will get a get feeling so will need to up her game in snooping. He will try to gaslight, call her paranoid... etc.
She needs to tell him that it's upto him to prove he is 100% dedicated to marriage not chasing new skirt.
At the end of the day, trust is hard to build back, if at all possible.

She needs to tell him that it's upto him to prove he is 100% dedicated to marriage

How do you suggest he proves this?

Well done - you have handled this awful situation so well.

I think if you choose to try and save your marriage, then what is the point in stalking him - online, messages or in person. I think you have to commit and believe what he says or you will drive yourself mad wondering where he is and what he is up to each day. Easier said than done after such a huge betrayal, but what option is there?
You don't chose to fight to save your marriage and then check up on him at every opportunity.

I think I would leave him where he is at the moment - its still very fresh and its just too convenient to move out of mums and back to his warm bed and comfy slippers. I don't mean to 'punish' him further but to let things absorb with both of you a little longer. Men do tend to process things a lot slower than us women - they compartmentalise for most of the day and then only think about things when there is nothing else on his mind. We, on the other hand, think of nothing but the problem day & night and just want it resolved.

I would say you need more time (not asking for more time, but stating it), but that he is welcome to come and have tea with his family and then maybe an afternoon out at the weekend - take things slow, see how he is, see how you feel and it will also allow him to talk to you more openly in a relaxed surrounding.
Have some family time for a couple of hours, enjoy parenting your child together and shoo him back to mums afterwards. Maybe have a couple of hours as a couple and go and sit in the park and talk also.

I do think that if you allow him back quickly that he will think its all forgiven and forgotten and that it was no big deal. These early talks can also get quite emotional and if they are taking place at home, where he has moved back in again, potentially effect your child and your healing.

Slow and steady and don't be rushed.

I think you’re putting too much blame on the OW… she doesn’t owe you anything… he’s the one who’s supposed to be loyal to you. And I highly doubt she was saying all this stuff and he just couldn’t help but go along and it’s just that he ‘didn’t put a stop to it’, he is actively participating and willing

While I agree that the husband is the one at fault here, the OW isn't blameless. Even if he started it, she could have backed off knowing he's married.

Any person who knowingly engages in any kind of affair with another married person is at fault. It's not like she's an innocent party.

There’s ALWAYS one! Coming on to remind a traumatised woman in shock about the old ‘she doesn’t owe you anything’ trope.

Well that works both ways. OP doesn't ‘owe’ OW magnanimous behaviour. She doesn’t owe OW her empathy, compassion, consideration. She doesn’t even ‘owe’ her time to delve into this right now. She doesn’t owe her anything EITHER and can express her feelings how she wishes here.

Gawd. At no point did I say the OP owed the OW anything… so don’t put words in my mouth. I’m simply saying there’s a danger and false sense of security you can fall into by laying too much blame on the OW - and therefore effective letting the DH off the hook. It’s much easier and less hurtful to say well she lead him on and he fell for it, than it is to admit he was just as willing. Makes it easier to forgive and take him back, rather than accepting the full betrayal. I have all the sympathy in the world for the OP.

@GreenBiscuit25 has he offered you any assurances in that he will stop messaging and meeting the ow? Is he offering any transparency? Not having access to his messages must be hard, especially your mind must be all over the place wondering if the messages continue or if they have escalated. Once trust is broken it’s going to be continuous doubt which isn’t a way to live, Unlesd he starts for fight for you, your marriage and your family unit. You seem very in control right now on the outside. You’ve handled it all very well. Does his mum know why he is staying at hers or tried to reach out?