Glam & Fab Part 5 - Summer Loving

[macdoodle]

Gosh time for a new thread already
I'm up for a half term meet - tis the week of the bank hol here 26 May - I will be with sis in Hitchin prob from Sun 25 May most of that week so up for London or roundabout meetup

I think you have it spot on there Baffy!

Then when the distraction becomes part of the norm the cycle begins again. Often thats when they realise that what they actually had at home was real life, not this stupid fantasy life they have wrecked everything for.

Thats when they want to talk again, to try and convince you that they made a mistake, they've been a fool and they want you back. Idiots!

Thats what I said at 13:38 WW

hello again. Thanks for your inputs. TFM, it is so hard to do what you suggest and say I don't want to talk, when what I really want is to talk a lot and for him to hear me as well. In a way that would prove we can communicate, we can talk and we can discuss difficult issues.

He says he is getting a lot of he "should" do this that and the other, and people telling him he "can't" walk out on me and the children without even giving us a chance. But he won't stay out of a sense of duty. Heaven forbid. I want him to stay because he wants to. At the moment, he doesn't want to because he's in love (infatuated?) with OW. How can you be in love with someone else so quickly - it was only 3 months ago he was telling me he loved me. Of course the only other input he's getting is from OW, although he is starting to contact our friends again now.

TFM I think maybe you have a point too about talking to convince themselves. If we agree with them, then that takes the guilt away, and they can congratulate themselves on being the one who was brave enough to say it's over first.

H did listen to me this morning when I said I didn't want him to move back in now, I want effectively to start again, and he could only move back in if and when we knew it was right. He had said it would be cruel to the children for him to move back in for 3 months, and for us to decide it wasn't right only for him to move out again. He also said it would be extremely hard to rebuild - I said I knew that, it would take a long time, and a lot of effort. But then in next breath, he says he isn't interested in that at all, and there's no chance.

Maybe I have left him with food for thought.

Baffy, you are right, I have no regrets and have not behaved badly, I have done all I can to try and put this right. I also don't have to live with guilt, and I live with my children. He gets guilt, possibly regret, and he won't be a 100% of the time father either.

I don't know what to do about money either. A thorny one. I do want to be secure, so am trying to work out what to do, see a solicitor and get a separation agreement, file for divorce (don't feel ready for that). One thing at a time..

Yes, I did have another name before in my happier existence and used to post quite a bit. I don't want to put my previous name though, as DH also used to post quite a lot and he could find me via my old name and a search... I don't want him invading my support...

LOL so agreed with you and chucked in some bad spelling for effect

Youve all been chatting so much today...im a bit of a butterfly if the posts get long I kind of waft over and just get the gist of it.

Honestly I should get something done today or my DH will be doing the same as Diors when he comes home for the daily inspection LOL

Baffy, can I ask how long did your h stay with ow after he left you?

I think all this proves that we have far more emotional intelligence than them.

ok here goes .....well no I haven't changed my mind just haven't been as uncompromising as I planned...and my little sis is a bit annoyed but only cos she loves me ...
So I saw the sol on Monday - completely different to my first one - this is small family run bit messy very friendly (the first was big shot glitzy firm)...she was lovely but quite firm and no nonsense (bit like I imagine you TFM )...and basically said the FIRST thing I must do is...be sure in my mind what I want, tell him and stick to it ---- easier said than done!...
She then went throught the process with me, entitlements, financial settlements etc and answered my long list of questions....and then left it with me - she said if I want a divorce I can have one no matter how much he argues and blusters and the more reasonable I am the more unreasonable he looks if he argues, and if it went to court a judge would not look kindly on him...also went into protecting what are now joint assets for MY children (I really bear her child no malice but am buggered if she will have a claim of MY childrens inheritance that we worked so hard for )
It went well I thought and gave me lots to think about...
So on Tuesday morning I told H we needed to talk...we haven't talked properley for months , usually just superficial stuff about DD's, house, business etc...
At first he got quite defensive and angry (as usual) and said I was just going to drag it all up again and talk at him - I said I wasn't, I was very calm, I didn't cry, rant, shout or anything that usually happens and as a result he was fairly calm and receptive....
I asked him what he wanted after 2 years and how he saw us next year this time....he admitted that he thought he would eventually move back ....I asked when he thought this would happen, when he had enough of having the best of both and I would just welcome him back - he had the grace to look a bit sheepish...
Anyway we talked (properly talked)about our future trying very hard to avoid blaming each other, or dragging OW into it - though we did talk about her baby as obviously that is a big part of whatever we decide to do...
I also told him that he totally undermined my self esteem and self respect and that I didn't trust him at all....
I told him he should have spent the last year proving to me that he could be trusted that he loved and respected me and put me first, that he had to stop blaming me and accept that he was to blame for his own actions....
He spoke too - feels sad at what he as done and torn between us and her baby (though says he has civil relationship with her but no more - can I believe him though)...he admits that at the moment he has his cake and eats it...and even admitted though he would like to carry on like this it is not fair or right to me ...
I told him I didn't think that we would be able to live together again - that so much had happened that I find it very hard to forget or forgive, that I would very much like us to be friends though but cannot continue to be married or run a business together....he told me that he loves me very much but agreed that it would be very hard for us to be a couple again...
Also of course the OW and her baby are a big part of this - I cannot imagine she would ever let the baby come here when I am here and likewise I would not be happy for him to go there when she is there so round we would go in circles - I told him I would NEVER ask him to choose us or her baby, and would never curtail his access to my DD's...

So the upshot is (my decision)...we have 6 months till then end of the year (my baby will be 1)......
I have told him he can try and prove to me that he really wants me, that he can change, that he will put me first (I will never be second to anyone or anything not the pub the OW her or anyone else), that he can spend time with us as a family (but that he must take the initiative and make arrangements I will not chase him or beg him to spend time with us and if I have made other plans then that is tough)...
I am going to concentrate on me and my girls (and my house) - I am going to go back to the gym and lose my baby weight, spend time enjoying my girls, sort my house and my finances out and work on my self esteem
I am going to have some counselling (we started but it all got lost in the ructions)....I have done a lot of reading and I def think I am codependant (oldest child of dysfunctional family, need to fix everything and everyone - useful in my job but rubbish in personal life - LL I am GP but shhhhhh like to keep it quiet on MN we are devil spawn on here ).....
I have said that unless we BOTH feel absolutely certain that we can have a happy healthy relationship, then next Jan I will file for divorce....my sister is terrified he will make an effort and I will fall back into his arms..
My thoughts are that (1) he will never change - I don't think he really knows what or how to and (2) the OW and her baby are too big an obstavle for us to overcome ...
I know it sounds like I have been a sap and been sweet talked and manipulated by him - I don't think I have - I feel stronger and calmer for the first time in a long time, I feel like we have taken a huge step in the right direction...
Of course he has been on charm intiative +++++ (which isn't what I wanted but he so doesn't get it)...he even sent flowers to my work with no card (I knew it was him but oh how the tongues were wagging)....
Oh and I haven't slept with him {very proud emoticon} he tried and I told him that unless I was absolutely certain he wasn't sleeping with her or anyone else, I wasn't going to do that to myself

McD WELL DONE !!

For the first time you seem to have told him what you are going to regardless of him. I think you have given him a chance (not sure whether he deserves it) but you will know if he proves you right and can't put you first then you did everything possible.

A sap , not at all you sound strong and positive for the first time in ages. Keep it up he won't know what's hit him. You need to put you first !

wow that was long sorry
Will catch up with all of you now but baby crying be back soon

Who knows he might put on a charm offensive for 6 months and you may well have moved on anyway. If not he knows you mean buisness and your situation cannot continue 'just wait and see' if he can step up to the mark i guess!

Crikey Macdoodle, I don't know your story, but it sounds like you had a turning point of a day. I think the idea of giving it a specified amount of time before you file for a divorce for him to prove himself is great. Might use it myself one day...! Make sure you stick to your guns....

Yes UC, I know it is easier said than done BUT, IMO you have to show him that he can;t mess with your emotions like this, that you won't tolerate it. At the moment he is messing with your head because he is unsure of his own. He needs to go away and decide what he wants!! God these bloody men!

The thing is though UC, sometimes we love them so much that we make it easy for them, we fall for every crumb of affection and hope they show us, we would do anything, anything to get them back but, he has to realise that this is not just about him.

Please believe me when I say I understand, I really do, and I totally empathise with you, I just so wish you had the courage to withdraw from his little game xx

You are so right. You see, even in your message, I pick up on the bit about him being unsure of his own head... and that raises that spectre of hope again. Slapped wrists (for me, not you!).

Gosh Macdoodle you sound really strong who knows maybe he will surprise you and if not you have given it your best shot.

I notice you often mention the pub...does he have an alcohol problem (sorry if you have talked about this before but my brain retains very little for longer than a day!!)

UC he was with her from before we separated, and for the last 18 months.

Only broke it off with her once her horrendous behaviour caused him to end up in a police station and then write his car off!! He literally could have died. All because of a fight with her (she turned him into a raving lunatic - always making him jealous, causing fights etc).
She then announced she was pregnant.
After days of agony we found out that was a lie.
But, I decided at that point I wanted out of their messed up life for good and filed for divorce.

He refused to sign the papers and then started to suggest we could perhaps reconcile. And that's where we're up to now.

Do agree though that it's very early days for you to be thinking along the divorce line. I think you're doing exactly the right thing.

And macd - well done! Totally agree with lily, you've told him what is happening, what you need/want/expect and it is over to him to see if he can actually do what it takes.

You sound so strong, and believe me, it's not weak to give your husband a final (amazing) chance at saving his marriage. He's messed up. Big time. Can he salvage this or do you walk away forever? Either way, by giving him this chance you lose nothing and you may be able to get through this.

If he can't manage it then lets face it, you wouldn't want to be with him and prolong the agony anyway.

You really have done all you can. Good for you. Over to him now.

BLOODY WELL DONE MACD!!!!

I can honestly say that is the best post I have ever read from you! So in control, level headed, no anger and no 'f' word!! brilliant!!

Your sister shouldn't be worried. If he does manage to win you back then it is because he deserves to, because he has proved to you that he loves you and that you and the children are the most important things in his life. If you allow him to win you back then it means you are prepared to accpet he has a child with OW and you are going to support him in that.
Because MacD, you mean business now don't you?

NO RETREAT, NO SURRENDER!!!

No slapped wrists UC, you love him and love does funny things to us.

But you do have to be strong, assertive and not let your emotions get in the way. You have to show him that you will not be messed about, that this is your life too and you want to get out there and live it, with or without him. I suppose what you are doing is forcing his hand one way or another but isn;t that better than months and months of not knowing where you stand? Don;t play the waiting game with him UC. Turn the tables and take control. Dump him! I bet he will be so shocked at the change in you. Then if he really wants to be with you he will pull out all the stops (but come back and talk to us cos he isn;t going to get you that easy!) and if he doesn't do that then you have saved yourself months of torment. Don't be afraid of taking a step back, leaving him the space to come to you.

If it is meant to be it will be

RESPECT MACDOODLE

Go you! I am so impressed with where you're at!

H and I had a couple of "light" convos about the future and how things would/should/could pan out when we were camping. Nothing too heavy but both agreed whilst we're both okay with where we're at right now it's not a recipe for a longterm future.

I'm also giving it till the end of the year to see how things pan out.

Unfortunately I am guilty of being in the "i'm not going to tell you what to do or how to do it" camp as I firmly believe he should know/realise himself. If he doesn't know/realise what needs to be done then, IMO, he doesn't actually know what he wants.

If he comes to me and tells me what he wants and asks for my help in getting it then I will gladly help him tho.

We have a nice summer planned and that's good enough for me right now. But, I don't want to limp along like this indefinately. I want to move on at some stage but at present I don't feel free to do that.

There is nothing more than friendship between us right now but I would feel like I were cheating if I started dating someone at this stage.

UC, welcome to the gang. Sorry you're having to join us but this thread and the women on it will get you thru the worst of times and help you work out what you want for the future and how to get it.

It's a long road tho, it's coming up to 3 years since my H went off the rails.

WW, did you get my email?

Please can I go on holiday now instead of waiting till Monday?

Goodness Baffy, I'm sorry. It must be difficult to now have to face the decision that a year or so ago you were desperate to be able to make. I've read before that most relationships have that heady initial period of 5 or so months when you're head over heels, then another year or so before it gets to the mundane part...

Wow when I read my last post back I wonder why the hell I'm giving this man the time of day!

Slapped wrists for me too.

UC am totally with you on the hope thing.

Someone will say to me he's a liar, deceived you to sell your home, left you with a 1 year old baby for a girl he hardly knew, lied to you for over a year, treated you like crap, failed to ring you when your son had a fit because OW was with them, hid OW in his back room at Christmas when ds went there against my express wishes that she wasn't in ds's company after her violent outbursts... his head is a total mess, he can't be trusted and he doesn't deserve any more chances.

What do I hear from all that...
'his head is a total mess' - so maybe he'll come to his senses and come back one day...

I need more than a slapped wrist!!

Ladies, if every woman gave up hoping and trying with a man who had wronged her there would be loads of rejects wandering around

IMO if you love him, you love him. Thats what counts. You can work through the rest. Thats why women are strong and men are just Gutless Wonders

So, don't be so hard on yourselves!!

Hi everyone, sorry I haven't been posting - it's taken me a long time to catch up!!

McD - well done you! I really hope things go well - you sound so firm and positive about what you want.

Unhappychick, so sorry for you - TFM has really good advice - as always . She is very wise and good on compost .

Dior - I despair of your H sometimes - a little mess and a crumpled shirt never killed anyone! Take your time to get well and enjoy doing things for yourself - after all, if you are happy and fulfilled, it spills over into the whole family. H needs to realise that. He sometimes sounds like he treats you as a housekeeper/nanny - not his wife. And I seem to recall he didn't want you to take this job in the first place - so how can he now complain that you're giving it up??

Everyone else, would you like to come round and do MY housework? I have cat hair everywhere as I haven't vacuumed for two weeks!! But the bathroom looks clean and the washing is done (I only iron when I do my patchwork). And the garden looks loverly

Yep, I'm a slob - but we haven't had a case of foodpoisoning yet .

Oh, and Dior, envy you your trip to Woolacombe. Had two hols there, one with my parents in a chalet (very sandy bedclothes) and one with exh and dd at a very swanky hotel overlooking the sea. Nicest hotel ever, with a friendly badger digging up the grass outside the dining room.

PC I'm glad you managed to have some talks with H and things are 'ok' at the moment.
I really wish that man would come to his senses though!

I really do think that they only do come to their senses when they have literally pushed you to breaking point and you're ready to move on.

Total and utter gamble on whether or not it will be too late.

Luckily people like HW, although ready to move on, felt enough love to still give that second chance and luckily it worked out.

I really don't know if it's too late for us though. It took a hell of a lot for me to get to the stage of posting those papers. As you all know! And in some ways I think I've gone past the point of wanting to fix this.

I wanted to 'win' against OW. There, I've said it. I always wanted that.

But I have done. I always had. I have my morals. My dignity. My baby. And I did nothing wrong. What can she say?!

I'm enjoying spending the time with H. I do still love him. I still fancy him like mad But he could leave me and ds for some stupid pathetic 19 year old kid he hardly knew... is this the man I want to base the rest of my life around?!

I actually don't know anymore. I deserve better. I want better

Like your situation macd - can he rise to that challenge?! Will he do it again next time the going gets tough a little bit more difficult than his usual easy life? Is he worth that risk?

I honestly don't know.

(lol WW I know what you mean when there's loads of long posts. If I come on after a day like today I need a glass of wine just to get through it!! )

"I wanted to win against OW" - I feel that too Baffy. I have to keep reminding myself it isn't a competition, and I guess she doesn't have anything against me personally. Although I guess she might if I enacted out those fantasies of poking her in the eyes with a sharp stick...

I think there is always a risk, whoever you are with, that they may leave you for a 19 year old. I hope that your H will have learnt though that doing that doesn't pay, and makes him unhappy in the long run. Perhaps that actually makes him a safer bet than someone new...

I'm not sure how relationships that start in deceit ever really survive - how on earth does OW ever REALLY trust a man who can leave his wife and two children without any warning?...

Baffy, yeah things are "ok" but only because I accept them for what they are.

I have no idea where he is or with whom 95% of the time. Altho communication has been better recently and he has even rung me on occasion.

I totally understand where you are at. I don't know if there is ever a way back for us either. Maybe this summer is just about defining our co-parenting/friends relationship for the future.

I don't know that I could ever trust him again. The complications with all the other stuff are just too great for me to face sometimes. He's not the parent I want him to be, I always thought it was access issues with his ex that prevented him from being an involved parent.

I guess I've just lost a huge amount of respect for him. I do love him, I'm not in love with him anymore tho. He loves me I know but I doubt he's in love with me either.

I don't necessarily believe you have to be in love with someone to have a future with them. In fact I think the first flush of "in love" gives way to a longer lasting deeper level of love that sustains you thru all the crap and the shit.

I'm not sure if we have that love or even the ability to find that sort of love. I guess I'm giving it the rest of this year to find out........

Good points UC

PC I guess you, me and macd yet again are in the same place... which way will it go this time...