Glam & Fab Part 5 - Summer Loving

[macdoodle]

Gosh time for a new thread already
I'm up for a half term meet - tis the week of the bank hol here 26 May - I will be with sis in Hitchin prob from Sun 25 May most of that week so up for London or roundabout meetup

This is exactly what happened to a friend - she is now 2 1\2 years on.
He never got her out of his life - he doesnt really want the ow now but still would rather be miserable with ow than alone as she wont have him back now (georgous new man on the secene and she is all luuuved up ).(smile).

He just cant seem to let you go either though can he? He wants to make sure he has not pushed it too far - a massive ego boost to him too.

SG will hate you because she knows that too - she would rather you were out of his life and she will be 'blaming' you for still being able to reel him in too. So for her you are the ow.

I know you have already taken that step to D - let it carry on now. Harsh as it sounds that marriage piece of paper did not keep yu together the Divorce paper will not keep you apart if that is what is meant to be.

Are you listening McD? I think your H is playing those same games with you - he may not see it as a game, I am sure he is massively confused too.

H says it is like being a child and not wanting to choose - because then you have the responibility of your actions - so if you can still have both and not miss out on anything then you will.
These men are weak and want the strong women to make the choice and inevitibly (?sp - it is early!) they want the one they cant have.

My friend thinks she could still get her H to come back (she just doesnt want him now)- what kind of relationship is that for the ow?

Anyway have a good day everyone - off to work today.

Good morning ladies

I was talking to P's best mate (the one who makes me blush and go weak at the knees ) he has been with his gf for 6 years now but he is so miserable. I asked him why he doesn't just end things with her, his reasoning is that he would then have the trouble of looking for someone else That made me look at him in a whole different light, no depth at all to him, he would rather be miserable with a woman that he has nothing in common with than be happy on his own. They really are strange creatures aren't they?

As for us, I sometimes wonder if it's the rejection from the man we love that we find hardest to bear. We automatically think there must be somethng wrong with us and we set out to prove that we really are nice girls and worthy of them. I wonder if thats what keeps us hooked sometimes. I suppose there are lots of reasons. Love being a big reason.

Thanks guys. HW I'm still letting things go ahead with the divorce.

LL it's funny you should mention an ultimatum. I did do it right back in the early days (over 12 months ago) so he swore he'd never see her again and then just got more careful about hiding his tracks!!

But I was standing in the shower this morning thinking it all through, as you do, and I wondered whether I should ask him to stay away from me (I mean completely, 100%, not even any texting) until he decides whether or not he wants this girl in his life. To be honest, it makes me furious that he thinks it's ok to still be in touch with her whilst he's making suggestions to me that we can perhaps work things out.

I'm not that much of a mug that I'll accept that!

He says he has a bit of an issue with the fact that every time his phone goes I'm on edge and wondering who it is. Er, no shit!
I know he's in touch with her, and he's lied for 18 months pretending it's not her, so is it any wonder I'm on edge!!

But I guess as we've been separated for 18 months, (on and off!) and I see whoever I like, I feel in a way that I don't have a right to give him that ultimatum.
Does that make sense?
As he could just turn round and say, well we're separated so it's none of your business!

And at the same time, I would rather hope he would come to the decision himself to end the contact and take those steps without me forcing it. Surely if he wanted me enough then he would be doing that anyway.

Which I guess does tell me that he's not ready to give me the love or commitment it needs. And while he's in contact I'm on pins every second that today could be the day he gets back with her.

I guess there's no harm in me spelling out the way things are. He's hurt me beyond belief. He needs to decide what he wants and who he wants in his life. And then maybe we'll have a chance at taking it from there. But he's a 31 year old man. surely, he should be able to work this out for himself

We're going round in circles.

It is killing me.

Life's too short for all of this.

Baffy i think that is a great idea. You have every right to ask him not to contact you and then tell him when/if he does resume contact it needs to be when he has decided she is no longer part of his life.
Also let him know that you are still going ahead with the divorce proceedings as you cannot wait in limbo for him to decide what he wants.
Then you need to take a step back from the whole situation and leave them too it and if he does come back then you can decide whether you want him or not instead of him pulling all the strings.

Baffy sweetheart, why don't you take control? Instead of asking him to leave you alone until he decides what he wants why don't you think about what you want and tell him what you are going to do. Don't give him any more power over you and your feelings than he already has.

I know all of this is not easy for you, you love him, simple as that. You want him to want you as much as you want him and thats fine BUT, don't compromise yourself or what you feel just to get him back. Make him work for your love as hard as you ahve worked and are working for his. Don't be afraid of taking a step back for fear of losing him. If it is meant to be you won't lose him, whether it be sooner or later, if it is meant to be you will be together

Maybe what H needs is to be left completely alone. Maybe he needs the shock of being on his won to make him appreciate what he has thrown away. He is one very lucky man to have made all of this mess and have you still willing to give things another go, a very lucky man. He needs to appreciate that.

Me again as for thinking you don't have the right to give him an ultimatum, yes maybe thats right BUT, you do have a right to decided whether or not it is something you can tolerate. At the end of the day if he is doing something you don't like you don't have the power to change that, you cannot force him BUT, you do have the power to decide if it is accpetable to you and if you can live with it. You need to be thinking in terms of yourself now Baffy, deciding whether or not you can live with the mistrust etc, if you can 'settle' and compromise. If you feel you can't then you have your answer xxx

Exactly TFM he needs to work harder than he is at the moment. Baffy you can't do all the work to make it right , you have been here before he needs to show you he wants you without you making any compromises on her being prt of his life, that is completely out of order and whilst he is still in touch he doesn't deserve another chance off you.

Baffy just hugs here ...if anyone knows EXACTLY how you feel its me - it seems thats all I think about and just fed up of it all
Solicitor monday now at 2:30pm (she has court on tues) will have to lie to H as to where I am as he has DD's and I am usually home by 3ish....don't worry HW I am not going to tell him till AFTER I go - am off work on Tues (DD's in school/CM) so will TRY and have calm talk then with all the facts from solicitor....and then I am going to have a ME day!!! Have voucher for spa from BF for birthday (gonna have destress massage methinks), then gym, sushi and movie or shopping Will probably spend the day in tears my H can be a nasty arse when he is challenged but time to stop being so nice

I really feel for you Baffy and I wish for you all the strength in the world, I really do.

I wonder if he knows how much you still love him so feels quite confident that he will never lose you, no matter what you will always be there for him. Up to now you have been, he has played the single man but he has still leant on you very heavily. Maybe baffy, as much as it will break your heart, you do need to give him a wide berth for a while, give him a taste of what it feels like to be a 'single man', financially and emotionally.

Belated Happy Birthday MacD! I hope you enjoy your spa treat. I am pleased to read that you are taking the steps you are taking, stay strong! xx

Don't feel strong at all - keep having what I think are panic attacks - heart pounding, knees and hands shaking, teary....think he is either going to be horrid or pathetic when I tell him and not sure I can deal with either

Yes you can! He caused the mess and you are sorting it out, once and for all! You have nothing to feel panicky about, you owe him nothing. Like Baffy, you too have supported this man, been there for him. Now it is time for you to put yourself first! Take back your power!!

Thanks lilyloo that's great advice.
Seems so clear when you explain it like that too.

And TFM you are right as always

I actually don't know the answer to that question. Or any of the questions.
I'm not sure what I can tolerate. I'm not sure what I want.

OJ's story has touched me more than I realised (I was telling my mum last night and I cried! I don't even know her.) But the point is that it does make me realise that life is too short and I love him, I made those vows to him, and I want to do whatever it takes.

But literally within seconds of those sort of thoughts, I think how he's treated me, and how he continues to treat me, and think that no matter how much you love someone, you can't give them the right to treat you so horrendously. If I take him back I do so with the intention of putting what has happened behind me.
Which would be great as we would be a family again and I would be with the man I love.

But at the same time that means I accept the very real possibility that he may do it again. Plus I make a statement that I accept what he's done.

Subconsciously therefore, surely he'll just be thinking he can do whatever the hell he wants to me and I'll always forgive him.

And that won't be the case. If he lied to me even once, no matter what the lie, he would be out of the door.

But he'll never believe that. Because I've given in so many times before.

TFM you are totally right. I need to decide what I want. And I don't know!!!!

(And you may think I'm nuts, but when I leave him totally alone it kills me. You know why. Because he never stays in alone and thinks. He goes out every night for a pint with his dad. Weekends is town with his best mate. He works in a bar with loads of young girls who are falling over themselves to invite him out. If he's not working evenings in the bar he has any number of invites to their houses/parties/nights out etc. Which he goes to. This is mixed in with him going to the gym, playing football, writing articles for his web site....
Do you get my point?! He has never sat in alone. He has buried his head from day 1. He is never lonely because he has so much to fill his life with. And no ds to stay in and be responsible for!

So I've always known that leaving him to it, actually doesn't mean anything. Him cutting contact with me means endless nights sitting in my bedroom while ds sleeps. It has an impact. To him. Well. He can do what the hell he likes. And he does!)

oops sorry lots of x posts - my posts are getting waaaaay to long!

macd I'm glad you're still going and not telling him until after. Wishing you all the strength in the world.

Baffy. As always I totally agree with everyone else. You don?t need to issue ultimatums, but you should tell him in no uncertain terms exactly what he has to do if he wants to make this work and that will include cutting all contact with her and removing anything to do with her from his life. Men are very stupid sometimes and need it spelling out in black and white. Also he needs to be told that you won?t trust him 100% again, but he will have to work very hard to give you some security back.
If he truly loves you and wants it that much he?ll agree to whatever you ask. If he doesn?t, well I think then its time to walk away and get on with your life, hard as that may be. You are too good and too lovely to take any more crap from him. You deserve to be happy again, with or without him, after what you have been through.

Ok here goes. There are a couple of things I want to say to that post baffy but I will start with this one.

I don't think you are nuts at all for feeling the way you do when you leave him. You are still in wife/family mode while he appears to be in 'single man' mode (totally contradicting what i said in my earlier post) he has built himself up a very busy social life, one that i feel could not be accomodating to having a family. Putting the OW aside and all the other issues I would be asking him if he would be happy giving up the life he has built for himself. If you are to make a go of things his social life would have to change. If he isn't happy for this to happen then all of the other stuff is irrelevant.

Right, off to read your post again, see you in a minute xx

But why is he still contacting you and talking of making a go of things if his single life is so great ? Because he needs you and the stability you bring to his life. Let him do all them things they cannot give him what he needs from you.
You need to get control and you can't control him only yourself.
If you want to give it a go then he needs to come back to you 100% and nothing you do can make him do that.
You need to withdraw from him so he understands that the stability he needs from you is no longer available when he NEEDS it.
You cannot keep going around in circles like this it must be horrendous!

McD you can do this and you will be well armed when you meet him so will more than likely feel much stronger than when you have had similair conversations before. Definately get them treatments what a fab friend!

lilyloo thank you

It IS hard to walk away from someone you love but if they are not willing to give you their loyalty do you really want less? I know I would never want to be with anyone unless they loved me totally - id rather be alone than have a half hearted man.

Baffy your life comes on in leaps and bounds - you start to be strong, you start to decide what you want then this man throws you some crumbs from him table and you are back where you started.

You dont deserve a few crumbs you deserve the whole cake.

just jumping in for a quickie. so busy at work at the moment but i am lurkin!

baffy, you know the only thing that got H and I on any sort of reasonable communication level was that 6 weeks last October/November when I cut him off completely.

It was really hard and it drove him up the wall but it gave me/us the space to draw some sort of a line.

I understand what you are saying about him being off out at every opportunity whilst you are left, literally, holding the baby. Believe me I struggle with the resentment of that too.

TFM said something to me a while back about not projecting my ideas/reasons/assumptions onto H's behaviour. I still do it but not as badly. You're doing this right now, assuming that because he's out and about he won't recognise or feel your absence if you pull back.

Believe me he will. He is burying his head in a social whirl maybe but his mind is still working overtime and cutting contact will affect him.

My only advice would be, don't do it to provoke a reaction. Don't do it expecting it to be the wake up call he needs.

Do it for yourself, your sanity and to give yourself time to figure out what you really want and how to get it.

Even if you only manage a few days, I promise you you will really feel the clarity you can gain from it.

Big hugs mate, I totally totally know where you're at.

I'm so sorry not to have been more supportive to you guys recently but I've been battling some of my own demons and just haven't had the ability to articulate.

ginnedup I definitely think you're right

and TFM - well that is the question isn't it. would he give it up?

my guess - he wants everything! and that's why he's not committing to coming back. because he still has the stable wife there in the background when he needs me. but on top of that he has all the freedom of a single man.

why would he want to give that up?!

it's making me realise. like you all say he can't have both and I need to walk away to make him understand that. this is truly killing me.

sorry everyone

WW, you summed it up brilliantly.

I too am guilty of scrabbling for crumbs....

ps: will reply to your CAT today! promise

Thanks PC that's great advice. Thank you.
Are you ok?
How's the house situation?

And WW you're totally right. Look how happy and settled I was when I sent off the papers. And then those few crumbs. And look at me now! You're right.

Baffy it's very clear how much you love him and if you do get back together you will have to trust him and he will have to prove to you that you can. Yes you have to'accept 'what he has done but that doesn't mean it was acceptable iygwim.

WW here here that's the least you deserve!