Is my husband an Incel?

[DiannaSpanna]

Hubby and I finally got round to watching Adolescence on Netflix this week.

When we finally finished we chatted for ages about it and at one point he asked what incel meant. So I explained it was involuntary celibacy and that it was guys who couldn't find a woman to sleep with. He joked "so married men?".

This got me prickly and I responded that it's different, but he thought about it for a bit and then made the point that if a husband wants sex and his wife doesn't, he's therefore involuntary celibate. I couldn't argue, as I got what he meant and he wasn't have a dig at me or women in general, just stating what it conjured up for him. But it got my back up all the same and I've not been able to stop thinking about it.

I know why. At the beginning of our relationship and marriage we had a very healthy sex life. He's great in bed, generous and still gorgeous. But after 3 kids, my body changing and generally mellowing, I don't really feel sexual desires anymore. And I'm happy with that. It feels right for me.

So I can't even remember the last time we had sex. It's definitely been over a year.

He's clearly still keen, flirts and tries it on from time to time. But I just don't feel like it. He never guilts or pressures me and is super respectful, but I can see it hurts him to be rejected. And he definitely seems less joyous than he used to and just generally deflated.

So I'm worried that I've made my husband an incel, if not in terms of red pill forums and Andrew Tate etc (he's not an idiot), but the feelings of sadness and resentment that come from being rejected.

When it comes to sex, I have all the control. He has none and has to wait for if and when I feel like it. Which is almost never anymore. When I put myself in his shoes, and if the situation were reversed, I would be angry and feel powerless.

So I find myself in a place where I really don't know what to do. I love him to bits and adore our life together, but I've changed and now he's got to live without something as fundamental as sex - through no fault of his own.

I don't know why I'm writing this here, but would love to know if anyone else is going through the same and if you have any advice.

Goodness me, men don’t do well without regular sex. You’ll lose him. Thankfully we are very well matched and both behave like teenagers in bed.

@DiannaSpanna can I ask how old the children are and you’re approx lifestsge age ?

Did you actually read the OP’s description of her husband AT ALL?? Nowhere in that post gives ANY impression that he is
‘unkind or whiny’! OP says he’s ’super respectful’, and says that he never pressures her and is kind.

She says herself that SHE has rejected him for over a year and that he is still kind and respectful about this!!

I totally agree that we all have autonomy over our bodies and that we can all say no to sex, and that should be respected. However, in a relationship this imbalance is an issue after so long. Over a year of being told ‘I don’t want sex with you’ is bound to be hurtful and needs addressing. Counselling or some other form of therapy might be a good start.

Whatever they decide needs to work for both of them of course, but the husband is not doing anything wrong here!

What if he one day decides that that's it, 3 kids, 30 years (or however many) of working life - enough. He won't work anymore, because he 'doesn't feel like it' and not working just 'feels right' for him, so you should pick up the slack?

Or he won't do any housework, same reasons. Doesn't feel like it.

Or uses up savings to buy a sports car, picks up smoking, drinking and partying, because he feels like it.

Sex is integral part of a marriage and one part of it cannot unilaterally decide to call it quits. And their partner can sort themselves out, whatever. It doesn't work like that. You either talk it out and fix this, have an open marriage, he will eventually cheat, leave you, or will stay and resent you dismissing him more and more until that resentment kills everything that's good between you.

Yes, you don't have to have sex if you don't want you. But you'll lose him one way or another: if not his presence, then his feelings for you.

'No one is entitled to sex' - what a crock of shit. In marriage people absolutely are. That doesn't mean they're entitled to rape their partner, but it does mean they're entitled to leave. Up to the OP is she's ok with that.

Whereas you sound great! 🙄

OP has said really clearly that the issues are nothing to do with him, but don’t let that get in the way of your little outburst.

OP, talk to him, maybe talk to a GP and work out of anything physical is affecting you. I was on the mirena coil for a year and my libido went through the floor. I got very depressed and had no energy, I came off it as I was sick of feeling that way and very quickly everything turned around. Sharing this only because if I hadn’t have made the connection, this would have carried on for years but it was easily sorted. It sort of sneaks up.

@ThisFluentBiscuit

I strongly agree with everything you said expect this…

"Marriage is about sex." I was like, WHAT? But then I realised that he's sort-of right. It is the only thing that separates it from all other relationships.

This is absolutely not true. My relationship with my Mum, best friend, colleagues, sister isn’t the exact same as my relationship with my husband, except I have sex with my husband. Many marriages go through sexless periods eg long term illness, postpartum and they don’t stop feeling like a marriage just because sex has been paused, because the relationship consists of more than sex.

Your DH/DW is your partner in life. You make all the biggest decisions you’ll ever make together as a team. You do not do that with your friends, family etc. You also don’t even choose your family. You get what you get! You chose your partner. Even my friends who I adore I wouldn’t want to live with for the rest of my life or raise children with.

Also I’ve had sex with men before my husband, but my relationship with them wasn’t the same as my relationship with my husband just because sex was involved in both of them. Sex doesn’t equal marriage and therefore we have to accept that a marriage means something more than just having a pal you commit to sex with for the rest of our lives. I’ve had sex with friends, but I didn’t marry them, so something was missing from “I like having sex with them and I like them because we’re friends” for me not to commit to a marriage/life with them.

Why is he behaving like a manchild? He's pointed out an issue with their relationship he's not happy with. I assume he doesn't complain about this all the time as it seems to have come as a surprise to OP.
Why is this unacceptable behaviour?

I don’t think this is a weird question. It’s a sensible question. But one can also like sex and not want sex with a particular person so the other question is whether it is that and why. Which is maybe not a question to answer online but think about.

Some of the replies on here make my skin crawl!
It is not unusual for women to lose their libido when they’ve birthed children and have settled into a rhythm with their husband but a sexless marriage where one partner still desires intimacy with the other could be a recipe for disaster. Intimacy without sex might be a good starting point. And if the idea of that feels off for you it might be worth you having a few counselling sessions where you can explore what’s going on for you.

I think you need to find yourself a therapist and book a session immediately.

Not to me it’s not
I love my husband and I want him to be happy why wouldn’t i I love him
We have been married 25 years

we are both reasonably well off independently and our kids are grown up with their own homes so if he wanted to leave neither of us would be any different financially wise we wouldn’t be living in a one bed flat or have to change our lifestyle much

im not having sex with him because I’m scared he will leave me and I won’t be able to survive financially or not managed with kids

i have sex with him because I love him
I like the closeness it brings and while I would rather have a cup of tea 😂 or read my book once I get started I remember why I married him

we hold hands kiss and we are very affectionate towards each other daily

sex has gone from pretty much every day to maybe 2-3 times a week

he’s never moaned or got in a mood if I don’t want sex because we chat
he knows I’m menopausal and it’s hormones I would like to be that horny woman he met again but he knows it’s not him or even me it’s just sometimes part of being a woman your libido goes and I would like to get mine back

Im on HRT and other stuff and hopefully I will get some of it back because sex is important in a relationship

we had an amazing sex life when we first met but Im just hormonal and menopausal

You seem to be looking for problems that aren't there to be honest. Almost like you're eager to label him.

While I agree that no one should be forced to do something they dont want to do, I dont think this is a fair situation - and it would not make a difference if that was the other way round. For most people, sex is an integral part of the marriage, its not just a physical thing, its hugely important emotionally - this is what makes it different from just two housemates living together.

If OP cant get her libido back, and if the husband cant go without - then they either need to agree for him to have an affair partner (which is crap, tbh), or split up. Its really unfair on him to expect him not to have sex at all if he wants to - there were threads on here where women were in this situation, and I would have said the same.

And no, the situation does not make him an incel - its all about ideology, and he sounds pretty much normal to me.

Easy. Why are you so angry? You sound like an INCEL yourself.

I don't have a spontaneous sex drive any more like I used to, and I reckon if I wasn't with my husband I wouldn't seek out sex at all. So in those terms I suppose I'm in a similar situation, except that I accept his flirting and his advances... and for me I loved reading this comment earlier on the thread:

Like getting into a swimming pool, which feels cold initially but then you adjust and the temp is great.

Because this is spot on for me! I don't know if you could make yourself have it and then enjoy it but it's worth a try at least.

And yes I know nobody should have sex when they don't want it. But for me it's a lot more complicated than that. I love my husband and want him to be happy. The good news for me is that like the swimming pool, when I get going it's lovely, maybe it could be like that for you.

I guess both of you need to take responsibility for your sex life. Have you considered if you have desire for sex outside of your marriage? I.e the lack of desire is specific to your husband? I felt similarly to you and found HRT and estradiol made a huge difference to my desire levels (for my husband and just generally).

The problem is the mismatch. If both of you aren't really fussed about sex it's fine. I think the idea that men or women are entitled to sex is frankly old fashioned. Women have fought long and hard for bodily autonomy. What I do know because I'm old is that sexual desire waxes and wanes, never now doesn't necessarily mean always never.

Do you want to feel sexual desire again? Or does it feel right for you that you are going to be celibate for the rest of your life?

This is a really big deal to not have sat down and discussed with him already. He's been left hanging and hoping for over a year, which does seem cruel if you're allowing him to continue to flirt with you and hope when you have no intention of having sex.

One person cannot unilaterally make a decision in a marriage without sitting down and having that conversation with their spouse. Of course if you don't ever want sex again then that is your choice to make but then your DH needs to be told that so he can work out what he wants to do. I don't have a very high sex drive, DH and I have sex once a month or so on average but if he told me he never wanted sex again and felt no desire to have sex with me I would be incredibly upset and would want to consider my options.

If you do want to feel sexual desire again then that is still worth discussing with your DH and exploring what you can do whether that's medication, counselling, more intimacy without the pressure of sex etc.

I’m sorry you went through this.
I went through a similar thing and left after 4 years.

Your situation is not uncommon OP. It’s this situation that keeps married people’s dating sites in business. They are full of middle aged men who openly say things like, ‘I love my wife and will never leave her, but there is no intimacy any more. I’m looking for one woman for friendship and more’. These men are used to sex within a close emotional relationship and usually want to replicate that in their affair. Some don’t, but it’s a common request.

Oh estradiol is fab
plumps up the vagina like a chicken getting ready to lay an egg

He’s not an “incel”, as in an Andrew Tate incel.

He is, however, involuntarily celibate. Sex is different to other activities—if you don’t want to go cycling with him, he is allowed to have cycling friends who meet this need, and who he can enjoy this activity with. By way of being married, sex is the one activity that he is only allowed to do with one person—only you are allowed to do this activity with him. Only you can meet this need. So yes, he is involuntarily celibate.

I’ve never been so ‘here’ for it. If you know what I mean 😂. Joked with DH that I may even become a sex pest, with my new and plumper vagina!

As a man, you perhaps don’t appreciate how hard it can be for women to return to sex after pregnancy and childbirth. So, it depends on the age of the kids.

In pregnancy, during childbirth and while breastfeeding, women’s sex organs have another (much higher and more profound) purpose: to give life and nurture a child. That’s why it can be difficult for women to breastfeed for the first time: because our nipples have only previously been used for sexual pleasure. And it can feel weird. Then, you get used to it, and it can feel weird to switch back to them giving sexual pleasure again. Vaginal birth obviously affects a woman’s vagina. The easiest way for blokes to understand it is shitting a melon, with all the strain, damage and mental associations that may cause.

Pregnancy (especially several) totally changes our bodies (for better IMHO) and some women never feel the same again, physically. It can take a while to feel good about our new bodies, to lose weight and tone up, get our head around the stretch marks etc. It can take a long while to get body confidence back.

Plus, when a woman has been repeatedly pregnant and breastfeeding over a number of years, you have to give so much of your body to your children, it can be a bit much to have to give it to anyone else. We actually have very little control over our bodies and naturally want them back for a while.

We become drudgey ‘mum’: being clung to, slept on, vomited on, clearing up poo and constantly cleaning, fetching, tending and soothing. We give so much mentally and emotionally, the tank can run empty. Wearing practical clothes and shoes. No time (or often money) to think about personal grooming. That’s hardly going to make any woman feel sexy.

It’s so important for men to understand all this. To a mother, it’s not ‘just a shag’. It can be a very big deal. We need understanding, support, time to ourselves. Our bodies to ourselves for a while. To learn afresh how to feel sexy post babies. We need a life as a woman outside of being a mother and housewife. We need to spend time interacting with people who see us, the woman, and not just a ‘mum’.

Men who do understand, can help get a sex life as a couple back or track. They inquire how their partner’s feeling about it all and suggest solutions, which can include not having sex for a while or giving their partner time to herself. They arrange special things to help us get ourselves back, e.g. a night in a hotel (researched, booked and paid for by them) for just the two of us to hang out as we used to pre-kids, maybe have a swim and a sauna or massage, with no expectation or pressure to have sex. But to help the woman feel sexy and special again.

Men who think everything will just ‘go back to normal’ are ignorant and uninquisitive. And that’s never attractive in a sexual partner.

'And I'm happy with that. It feels right for me. '

Ok but there's two of you in this relationship. You seem stuck in your ways. You should at least try and find ways to improve the situation.