Is my husband an Incel?

[DiannaSpanna]

Hubby and I finally got round to watching Adolescence on Netflix this week.

When we finally finished we chatted for ages about it and at one point he asked what incel meant. So I explained it was involuntary celibacy and that it was guys who couldn't find a woman to sleep with. He joked "so married men?".

This got me prickly and I responded that it's different, but he thought about it for a bit and then made the point that if a husband wants sex and his wife doesn't, he's therefore involuntary celibate. I couldn't argue, as I got what he meant and he wasn't have a dig at me or women in general, just stating what it conjured up for him. But it got my back up all the same and I've not been able to stop thinking about it.

I know why. At the beginning of our relationship and marriage we had a very healthy sex life. He's great in bed, generous and still gorgeous. But after 3 kids, my body changing and generally mellowing, I don't really feel sexual desires anymore. And I'm happy with that. It feels right for me.

So I can't even remember the last time we had sex. It's definitely been over a year.

He's clearly still keen, flirts and tries it on from time to time. But I just don't feel like it. He never guilts or pressures me and is super respectful, but I can see it hurts him to be rejected. And he definitely seems less joyous than he used to and just generally deflated.

So I'm worried that I've made my husband an incel, if not in terms of red pill forums and Andrew Tate etc (he's not an idiot), but the feelings of sadness and resentment that come from being rejected.

When it comes to sex, I have all the control. He has none and has to wait for if and when I feel like it. Which is almost never anymore. When I put myself in his shoes, and if the situation were reversed, I would be angry and feel powerless.

So I find myself in a place where I really don't know what to do. I love him to bits and adore our life together, but I've changed and now he's got to live without something as fundamental as sex - through no fault of his own.

I don't know why I'm writing this here, but would love to know if anyone else is going through the same and if you have any advice.

I don't think it's necessarily saying there is something wrong with the person who doesn't want sex, but it's a usual expectation in a marriage. If the partners in a marriage have very different libidos then counselling (or at the very least talking about it) can be a good way forward.

It is completely valid that you no longer want sex.

But it is deeply unfair that he may never have sex again for the rest of his life due to this.

Leaving the years just to go by while he flirts are tries to be intimate with you is quite cruel. You need to sit down and have a conversation and ask him is he okay with your lack of sex (his incel comments say otherwise).

I personally think you either work on your libido and sexual desire and see if you fancy doing it, but if you don't then you need to consider an open relationship.

Ethical non monogamy doesn't have to be a hugely scary thing. With very strict boundaries and guidelines it can be great, especially when you love each other and want to stay together.

My DH and I have been ENM for around 5 years and I know loads of couples who are similar.

You don't owe anyone sex and being pressured means it isn't true consent. You shouldn't feel guilty for not wanting it or force yourself to do it to "keep a man".

But you also need to consider you and your husband as well rounded human beings outside of the relationship, otherwise resentment will build.

I also agree with PP that the incel part is a red herring. Incels are dangerous, vile, terrifying men. I think both you and your husband probably need to educate yourselves further on that topic.

OP, I think you have misunderstood what an incel is….

There are millions of people in the world who are involuntarily celibate. People who would like to be in a sexual relationship but for whatever reason are not. I’m one of them, and I’m a normal, nice middle aged woman….We are not ‘Incels’!

Incel is a term that refers to a specific type of person (normally male), who is generally very very angry that they can’t persuade a woman/any woman to have sex with them. They are desperate for sex and angry that women control whether or not will happen for them. They hate women for holding that position of power. There is a lot more to this, but many billions of people are celibate when they would like to be sexually active, but most people are not consumed with hate and anger about their celibacy. so they are not ‘incel’s

i hope that helps!

No one should have sex they don't want. It's not "horrible" not to want sex.

I do not think he’s an incel … he tried to address the lack of sex in your relationship in a very clumsy way as seems you haven’t talked about this.
You shouldn’t have to have sex if you don’t want to however your husband shouldn’t be forced to a life without sex either.
You both need to discuss this and what it means to you both and how you move forward.
I would be very unhappy to be honest if my partner stopped having sex with me ( I am late forties with teenagers, late stages of peri).

OP, if you love your husband, and sex is important to him, couldn’t you bring yourself to do it to please him? You might even enjoy it once you get going. Your husband sounds like a very kind and considerate man, but he seems to have needs that you can’t meet, so there are two choices: make an effort yourself, or turn a blind eye if he goes elsewhere. Marriage is a partnership, and it’s all very well your feeling that it’s right for you not to have sex, but it’s a bit hard on him. Don’t his feelings come into it, too?

Well you are in a tricky position OP. I was in your position 8 months ago. After 8 years of forced celibacy due to my husbands alcohol induced dementia diagnosis, I decided I needed to have THAT conversation. He had confirmed to me that he had no desire to stop drinking. That despite his long term outlook being to a degree recoverable if he immediately stopped - he was clear that he wanted 2-3 more years of ‘fun’ drinking (decent into dementia and death ? ) over 20 years sober with me.
While the circumstances are vastly different, the fact that the man I married and love deeply chooses to enforce celibacy upon me was incredibly upsetting. You don’t have the surrounding alcohol issue but in someways that would be even more hurtful. My DH can’t perform and will not take steps to change that. You can but simply choose not to.
After he had told me that ‘that part of our lives is finished’ something inside me finally snapped and I started to grow a backbone instead of waiting yet another year in vane for him to grant me a sex life.

I told him that he had broken our marriage vows. He had not ‘forsaken all others’ as had blatantly put a glass of wine ahead of me for years. I told him that I need sex and intimacy. He said he understood that and was happy for me to find that outside the marriage as long as I didn’t ‘rub his nose in it’ and promised to look after him.

6 months later and I have a wonderful kind caring lover who knows my DH and thought he could cope with the situation.. inevitably love has entered the ‘arrangement’ and I am going to have the difficult conversation and end my marriage as sneaking around (even with permission) is not something we get a kick from.

ultimately - life is short. DH forced celibacy upon me. Now he will have to deal with the repercussions of that decision. As will you.

You made a choice not to have sex with your husband any more and that’s fine your body your choice

but your husband isn’t happy with it and he’s told that in a clumsy way

eventually he will either leave or have an affair or become very resentful that what he expected in a marriage isn’t what he’s got anymore

if he’s generous kind and good looking like you say he is then it won’t take much for hom
to be flattered by a women paying him interest and off he goes and has an affair

i can’t be bothered with sex. I would rather go asleep or read a book so I do get what you mean

but my husband likes sex so I have sex as I love him he’s kind and generous so once we start I get in the mood 😂

but if I took sex off the table completely I don’t think we would have much of a relationship left

I’m making the assumption that your early to mid 40s

do you really really think he’s going to spend another 30 or 40 years into forced celibacy and be happy with it

A few points here;

No one should be having sex against their will. That includes men as well as women.

It is perfectly reasonable after giving birth to 3 children to not want to have sex again, at least for a while.

If having sex is really important to his existence (no judgement) then you might have to rethink sexual fidelity. Now women have more autonomy over their bodies I.e have the right to refuse sex to their husbands society hasn’t really caught up in terms of mismatched sex drives.

This is the definition of coercive sex. It’s not consensual, it’s through fear… in this case “if I don’t he will leave me”

This isn’t a relationship.

Where the fuck did you get that from?!?

Not everyone follows the latest trends, talking points etc. Which is sensible as the vast majority of news/current affairs is a waste of valuable time.

It's really unfair of you to take your husband off the market and then refuse to have sex with him. I speak as a woman who was in a sexless marriage...I would never have believed it could be so awful if I hadn't experienced it. You exist in this quiet, grey, bleak vacuum, because you can't have sex, romance, and intimacy with your spouse, but you can't have it with anyone else, either...because you're married. I felt absolutely buried alive.

It might help you to know that men's desire is spontaneous whereas women's is responsive, generally speaking. If you never do it, you won't want it, whereas for men, the drive just exists. For women, we often have to be touched in order to get going. Like getting into a swimming pool, which feels cold initially but then you adjust and the temp is great.

You should make the effort. You're playing with fire, you really are. Men feel deeply validated, loved, accepted, and cared-for when their sex lives with their spouses are good. In a committed relationship, it's not just about the physical act for men, it's about these other feelings.

By placing no importance on sex, you are slowly killing him, your love, your relationship, and your child's security. Yes, it really is that serious. Don't say you weren't warned.

I really can't tell if a woman actually wrote this?
If so, really op?
I guess sometimes you're gunna have to meet him at least half way? Quarter way
I dunno
Just seems rather ridiculous

So what's the purpose of being in a relationship
Not meeting each others needs? Not compromising and meeting each other part ways?
Like why not just seek out, someone to co parent with?

I think it is actually quite important for the two of you to talk about this, about how you both feel, and how you are going to - both of you - make compromises so you can both be happier.

never guilts or pressures me and is super respectful,

doesn’t sound much of a cunt to me

I do think that society needs to think a bit more about sex and marriage. I was flummoxed when I read a book by a divorce lawyer that said "Marriage is about sex." I was like, WHAT? But then I realised that he's sort-of right. It is the only thing that separates it from all other relationships.

A few responses here have said that OP shouldn't be forced to do anything she doesn't want to do, and she has said she wants to be true to herself, i.e. not have sex when she doesn't want it.

But maybe it's time we should accept that marriage does come with sexual obligations. Obviously no one should be forced, because that would be rape, but I do think society would benefit from facing the reality that it's extremely unfair to grab someone for yourself, sexually, and then refuse to let them ever have sex, whether that's with their spouse or someone else.

It's perhaps time to be honest about what marriage entails, which is to maintain a healthy sex life with your spouse. We really, really need to further destigmatise divorce, because it's still pretty stigmatised - see all the judgy comments about people just not trying hard enough, like all divorced people are fly-by-nights. But if the end of a bad marriage wasn't so stigmatised, it would be easier to call an end to things where one person no longer wants sex.

But of course, kids are badly affected by divorce, so that's hardly a perfect solution either.

It's striking to me how oblivious many men have remained to the fact that being an equal partner in housework and child-rearing is incredibly hot, and that having to nag to get him to do stuff is a total passion-killer. Men need to learn to be equal partners at home, and women need to realise what they're taking on when they marry - a person who likely needs a lot more sex than they do in order to be happy. If this were talked about more widely, at least women would be prepared for the reality. My exH always said that Gen X is the first generation to know less about men than their grandmothers did! 😂

Having been in a longterm marriage, I now realise all these things about sexual dynamics, which I did not when I got married. Men's strong sex drive is a prime reason why I don't want to marry again. I don't want to trap someone into marriage when I know I often don't want sex. I don't want the responsibility of being someone's only source of sex.

Make the effort, OP. You will reap dividends in terms of a happy husband. Also, stick up for your needs, so it becomes a treat and a break for you too, not just for him. I always had crap sex until my most recent lover, who holds a Magic Wand on my clitoris while we're having sex, and it feels amazing. He says the vibrations feel good for him too. It's the only way I've ever been able to orgasm during sex, and man, is that toy worth its weight in gold. GOOD sex has made me feel refreshed and revitalised in a way I never thought it could. Approach sex with him not as a chore but like a hobby, where you get really into it and learn all the tricks and moves and get really into it. You will benefit enormously.

OP I feel we are in a very similar situation to you (minus the incel stuff).

I am still feeding our third child so feel that could be contributing to my total lack of sex drive. When I stop I am going to make an effort to get back to having sex more regularly, though for us we’ve never done it very often even pre children, as I don’t think either of us have ever had high sex drives.

Just wanted to post to say you’re not alone! I’m shocked by all these posts where people are horrified by the situation, but I’m obviously biased as I’m in the same boat as you so don’t find it unusual!

There is a massive difference between incel, involuntary celibacy, and volcel, voluntary celibacy. Your husband is not an incel, he is a volcel.

To be an incel is to have no say in the matter, which is slightly disingenuous given that even the most ugly or disgusting man can still pay for a prostitute. Ever man has a choice, I think your standard incel is not involuntary at all, he just feels that any woman should find him attractive and want to have sex with him regardless of how he looks and behaves, The line 'there is somebody for everyone' holds good here, if your a 5ft man with a small penis, no money, bad hair and a big nose, then your available pool of potential mates is reduced, but does still exist. Wondering why you constantly keep being rejected by pretty girls taller and more attractive than you does not make you an incel, it makes you someone who has unreasonable expectations .If your choice is then to pay to have sex with these sorts of women, then you still have a choice, celibacy is not involuntary.

Your husband chooses to be with you regardless of your outlook on sex, he could have an affair, he could sleep with a prostitute, he chooses not to, he is not an incel. He probably understands that 80% of getting what needs in a relationship is better than getting only the other 20% and missing out on the 80% he has with you. Also, he did not say 'like me then', he said ,' like most married men', so not a reflection on you, but just life in general, we all have a choice and he made his to be with you.

If you don't do it, you won't feel like it. As women, our sex drives are responsive rather than spontaneous, whereas men's are more spontaneous. Basically, for us women, the less we do it, the less we want to do it. It's probably the lack of action that's a big factor in not wanting to do it.

You really need a serious talk.

If you’re saying you want to be celibate for the rest of your life, that’s a very big deal. Expecting someone to stay in a relationship with you as a friend only, and be involuntarily celibate for the rest of their life, is a lot to ask. You should explain to him if this is the case, rather than keep him in hanging on in hope.

He must feel very rejected and unhappy. While some couples never have sex, for most people sex is important. It’s what distinguishes couples from friends. If you’re saying you never want to have sex again, you’ll have to be prepared to split up, or have an open marriage, so he has the chance of a healthy sex life with someone else. Sex is a wonderful (and free) thing. Great for mental health and physical fitness.

Do you ever have passionate kisses, hold hands, cuddle? Is there any sort of romance or are you now just friends?

You sound like you don’t want to have sex anymore, with anyone. But is this definitely the case or do you think you might feel like it again when the kids are older, if you had the odd night in an hotel (children hearing or walking in can be inhibiting) or if you felt more confident about your body? It’s quite common for sexual desire to come back once you get more of your independent life back as kids get older and work on fitness.

I hope you can work it out.

Can I recommend reading Come As You Are by Emily Nagoskyi. It's worth exploring why you're 'switched off' before making any definitive decisions either way.

I think it sounds like he’s deeply unhappy to not be in a sexual relationship and I’d be worried about my marriage if I were you. I’ve been on MN a very long time.