Is my husband an Incel?

[DiannaSpanna]

Hubby and I finally got round to watching Adolescence on Netflix this week.

When we finally finished we chatted for ages about it and at one point he asked what incel meant. So I explained it was involuntary celibacy and that it was guys who couldn't find a woman to sleep with. He joked "so married men?".

This got me prickly and I responded that it's different, but he thought about it for a bit and then made the point that if a husband wants sex and his wife doesn't, he's therefore involuntary celibate. I couldn't argue, as I got what he meant and he wasn't have a dig at me or women in general, just stating what it conjured up for him. But it got my back up all the same and I've not been able to stop thinking about it.

I know why. At the beginning of our relationship and marriage we had a very healthy sex life. He's great in bed, generous and still gorgeous. But after 3 kids, my body changing and generally mellowing, I don't really feel sexual desires anymore. And I'm happy with that. It feels right for me.

So I can't even remember the last time we had sex. It's definitely been over a year.

He's clearly still keen, flirts and tries it on from time to time. But I just don't feel like it. He never guilts or pressures me and is super respectful, but I can see it hurts him to be rejected. And he definitely seems less joyous than he used to and just generally deflated.

So I'm worried that I've made my husband an incel, if not in terms of red pill forums and Andrew Tate etc (he's not an idiot), but the feelings of sadness and resentment that come from being rejected.

When it comes to sex, I have all the control. He has none and has to wait for if and when I feel like it. Which is almost never anymore. When I put myself in his shoes, and if the situation were reversed, I would be angry and feel powerless.

So I find myself in a place where I really don't know what to do. I love him to bits and adore our life together, but I've changed and now he's got to live without something as fundamental as sex - through no fault of his own.

I don't know why I'm writing this here, but would love to know if anyone else is going through the same and if you have any advice.

So I can't even remember the last time we had sex. It's definitely been over a year.

yes then, you answer your own question

He didn't whine, he has been given a chance to discuss a situation that clearly makes him deeply unhappy.

Or just leave.

If you don't want it to change your sex drive and do nothing it won't change and fair enough. But if you did want to change it hrt and testosterone can help as can counselling.

It’s rare that men just leave.

instead he will accept his fate of celibacy and a nice home life with 3 children.

until he is attracted to someone else

I’m so sorry to hear that. It must be very tough for you all. Lots to deal with and adjust to.

IMHO, sex is a massive part of feeling wanted for a woman too. I don’t necessarily agree men and women have different sex drives. IME, it’s often because mothers put their sexual needs to the bottom of the list, as with many of their other needs. It’s one less thing to think about.

What I’ve learned is that you often have to start all over again once you’ve had kids. A woman who’s been through all the physical and emotional changes of motherhood needs a man to behave as he would when first dating her. Make her feel really special, plan special treats, tell her how beautiful she is, take an interest in how she’s feeling. Give her his time but also time to herself to have her own life, independent of him, kids and household chores. Present himself as sexy by looking after himself, keeping fit, having his own life, being considerate with habits (e.g. not farting in front of her, cleaning up after himself). Many men start to take the relationship for granted and no longer do any of this.

It’s of course important a man doesn’t pressure a woman to have sex with him. In any relationship. But not all men think or ask why she may not want to. They don’t focus on what the woman needs to feel sexy. They don’t do anything to make her feel special or ‘wooed’. A woman can’t always turn her sex drive on with a bit of foreplay. It’s how she feels about the entire relationship and, most importantly, herself as a sexual being.

I’m not suggesting you’re like that. You sound lovely.

Sorry…you lost me at ‘hubby’

I do understand your feelings of being true to yourself and really glad your husband is so understanding. However over time he may come to see you more of a sister than a wife. He is young to be celibate especially not by choice. Over time this could be a tricky path you are treading on however much he loves you.

I agree.

I imagine a not inconsiderable number of men would consider themselves as involuntary celibate, certainly from the number of posts on MN about the subject of, often women in marriages who have no sexual desire anymore ,it’s a common issue, though there are equally posts where the man have no desire.The advice is generally the same, communication,counselling, leave etc . This thought is very different from the incel subculture which blames, denigrates and advocates violence towards women. Being the half of a relationship that still wants sex doesn’t in any way make it acceptable to act as an incel would

I feel for your husband, who sounds like a good man. And I feel for you too, as you’ve lost or given up one of life’s great pleasures. As you’re the one who’s changed, you owe it to him to open a discussion about it, and how to proceed from here.
I wish you both the best of luck.

You're quite harsh aren't you.

Could you make an effort once a month? If you know it's a problem and your husband's unhappy, couldn't you try harder? Seems a shame when it's easily solvable. It doesn't seem fair to withhold sex from a partner. It happened to my sister and her husband, they divorced.

Have you been to the GP about your lack of sex drive and had your hormone levels checked? You may be low in testosterone or another hormone and this may be treatable so your sex drive is back to what it normally was.

He's great in bed, generous and still gorgeous

Realistically, this is a man who is going to find it very easy to find an affair partner, or even a full new relationship. He may be finding it easy to be so respectful as he already has found an affair partner. It sounds like this is a long-standing problem to which he may already have found a solution.

I don't buy into the whole perimenopause crap that's spouted like a religion on here. I think once you've reproduced, nature tells you you've done your bit. So many friends have said similar.

The danger with that is that most men are far more sex driven than most women are - and nearly every marriage ends up in this situation. If he genuinely is a good one, then don't let him leave you and the kids behind for a leg over with a work colleague/woman from the pub. You'll end up in a smaller house, having the kids on your own 90% of the time and life won't be anywhere near as rosy. Make an effort, even if it's once a fortnight or once a month. Put it on a calendar. And talk to him

It’s also not horrible for a man to want to have sex with his wife, or vice versa.

Dictionary definition of ‘incel’, with bits that may apply to your DH (now or in the future) bolded:

a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile towards women and men who are sexually active.

If he feels he can’t attract his own wife sexually, he may feel he can’t attract any women. Or he may be tempted to see if he can.

He’s tried to start a conversation about it, however clumsily or inappropriately. It’s so important to have open and honest conversations about how we’re feeling and what we feel we need, without judgement, blame or defensiveness. But men can be worried about talking about sexual needs with their partner, in case it comes across as pressure.

Wow! How dare a man still desire and want his wife sexually! What a manchild! You sound like a dream! Divorced by any chance?!

OP you really need to get some support with this situation as it’s likely to head one way. HRT and exercise helped for me. But if a man (or woman) is no longer feeling desired or attractive to their partner they are eventually going to seek it elsewhere

One of the drivers of incel ideology is the belief of these men that NO ONE will EVER have consensual sex with them, and this fuels a world view of victimisation. Your husband has had healthy and mutually fulfilling sexual relationships in the past and almost certainly knows that he could again if he chose, so while he may be frustrated and disappointed he likely doesn't harbour this kind of generalised resentment and fury toward women and isn't at risk to develop it.

If this were a case of differing sex drives and his needling you because he wants sex more often than you do, then I'd say he needs a better understanding of consent. But if you are sure you really don't ever want to have sex again and you have no desire to change that, then I think you need to tell your husband this very clearly and seriously because I think most people in this situation - male or female, and regardless of the sex of the partner - would be inclined to think that the partner has some openness to reestablishing sexual relations at some point.

It's a real shame if you enjoyed sex previously to have just given up on it, particularly when you are with a man you continue to love. For your own sake, I suggest you have a think about why, and at least consider putting a toe back in the water again. You might well rediscover the fun.

Why is it a ‘strange post’; the OP is sharing her feelings of conflict and guilt about enforcing celibacy on her husband because of her lack of sexual desire. If you’ve nothing useful to say, why even interact? Just scroll on…

It absolutely does happen.

I think you should have an honest conversation with your husband.
For most people, sex is a really important part of marriage. It is unfair to get prickly about this massive unilateral decision you've taken even being mentioned.
You definitely shouldn't have sex you don't want. But your husband needs to know your thinking and whether or not you are interested in anything changing. I find that sex is very much "use it or lose it". It might be the case that if you want to try increasing physical touch, kissing etc your interest would return- or maybe not. But talk to your husband.

‘When it comes to sex, I have all the control. He has none and has to wait for if and when I feel like it. Which is almost never anymore. When I put myself in his shoes, and if the situation were reversed, I would be angry and feel powerless.’

@DiannaSpanna I know a woman where it is her husband that has lost interest in sex and they haven’t had sex in years. She misses sex (she reads loads of erotic fiction). But she doesn’t feel angry and powerless.

Men and women are people and our bodies, hormones etc. change as we age. Why on earth would you feel angry and powerless if the roles were reversed and your husband was the one who completely lost his sex drive?

And why do you think that when it comes to sex you have all the control based on the premise that without your consent he can’t have sex with you? Without his consent you can’t have sex with him either.