Is my husband an Incel?

[DiannaSpanna]

Hubby and I finally got round to watching Adolescence on Netflix this week.

When we finally finished we chatted for ages about it and at one point he asked what incel meant. So I explained it was involuntary celibacy and that it was guys who couldn't find a woman to sleep with. He joked "so married men?".

This got me prickly and I responded that it's different, but he thought about it for a bit and then made the point that if a husband wants sex and his wife doesn't, he's therefore involuntary celibate. I couldn't argue, as I got what he meant and he wasn't have a dig at me or women in general, just stating what it conjured up for him. But it got my back up all the same and I've not been able to stop thinking about it.

I know why. At the beginning of our relationship and marriage we had a very healthy sex life. He's great in bed, generous and still gorgeous. But after 3 kids, my body changing and generally mellowing, I don't really feel sexual desires anymore. And I'm happy with that. It feels right for me.

So I can't even remember the last time we had sex. It's definitely been over a year.

He's clearly still keen, flirts and tries it on from time to time. But I just don't feel like it. He never guilts or pressures me and is super respectful, but I can see it hurts him to be rejected. And he definitely seems less joyous than he used to and just generally deflated.

So I'm worried that I've made my husband an incel, if not in terms of red pill forums and Andrew Tate etc (he's not an idiot), but the feelings of sadness and resentment that come from being rejected.

When it comes to sex, I have all the control. He has none and has to wait for if and when I feel like it. Which is almost never anymore. When I put myself in his shoes, and if the situation were reversed, I would be angry and feel powerless.

So I find myself in a place where I really don't know what to do. I love him to bits and adore our life together, but I've changed and now he's got to live without something as fundamental as sex - through no fault of his own.

I don't know why I'm writing this here, but would love to know if anyone else is going through the same and if you have any advice.

What a fucking awful post.

The entire point of foreplay is to get you in the mood.

Not having it in over a year is truly sad, and you need to work out whether you are more like housemates than a married couple. Because sex is very important in a marriage. So you need to either get therapy so that you want it, or let him go. Or an open marriage?

I think you need to have sex with your DH OP. Try to get back into it because...well, it's the right thing to do.

I get that there's the. 'you shouldn't have any sex you don't want', POV but you are sensible enough to see it from his angle too and realise that he has needs that no longer match yours and just withdrawing is a bit like cherry picking the bits you want from the marriage and leaving the bits you don't, to his detriment.

This is why a lot of marriages founder at menopause.

OP, you no longer want to.be married to him.
The right thing to do here is pack your bags and go.

Er, well, yes, a married man (or woman) IS entitled to sex. It's kind of what marriage is all about. And considering he has never brought it up, ever, he is more than entitled to have one 'whine'. Neglect in a marriage is heartbreaking. He sounds like a decent guy, and doesn't deserve this.

No he isn’t an incel, but it seems you have decided unilaterally to take sex off the table, without having a conversation about it, even though you know your DH is unhappy with this and “deflated”. I do not think that is fair op or even very healthy, relationship wise.
You are of course well within your rights to not have sex if you don’t want to. He however is also within his rights to aspect some aspect of sex in his marriage. Fortunately DH and I are on the same page sex wise, but if we weren’t we would have a full and frank discussion about how we can meet both our needs. Relationships have to work for both people and your DH is giving you fair warning that this isn’t working for him. Avoid addressing it at your peril.

Also, SOME parts of incel 'culture', as it is referred to, is related to some horrific crime but in general, it's related to unhappy men that, for whatever reason, cannot and likely will never be able to get a girlfriend and as a result, some use forums etc. to discuss this. It's related to suicide ideation and general misery far more than violence and aggression.

There does not seem to be a female equivalent for some reason.

OP, he actually sounds like the perfect guy. If you don't want him, can I have him?? I've been sex-starved for years, between my sexless marriage and being single. I'll happily give him the seeing-to of his life, if you're not bothered! 🤪

You should like a nasty piece of work

Tricky situation. I married completely the wrong person and in our entire relationship we never once had sex properly. He just wasn’t interested or able to perform and was not honest about it and I spent my 30s celibate. It was horrendous and in the end I stopped feeling anything at all.
Eventually I went off with someone else - I had warned him I was feeling like this might happen, and by this time he had not even patted my back or given me a hug for years, and he had absolutely no idea how relationships were meant to work, so we were living as housemates in separate rooms.
We are now going through the worst divorce anyone has ever seen, on year four, with multiple court cases going on…. sex is what makes it a relationship, not just housemates.
After a decade living with no sex, I’ve found I don’t care about it so much but that’s sad too. I think properly matched sex drives are uncommon but I guess that would be the ideal thing.

Yeah OP you need to talk to him because he tried to talk to you by using Adolescence as a spark but it got your back up. Whereas you think he should just accept your rejection when he flirts over and over and over, what forever?

You don’t have all the power, you might have al the choice right now, but he can say he loves you and the kids but needs sex in a relationship and walk out.

And if you love him, understand he was physical intimacy, but you don’t want that anymore, he needs to know. It would be better to split amicably rather than it become strained and resentful.

He tried to start the conversation and you shut that down, bit like all his flirting, you need to open it again without getting your back up and talk to him.

No. But she shouldn't be surprised if he leaves. No one should be in a sexless marriage if they don't want to. It's not what he signed up for. Questioning whether he's an incel seems extreme based on her description of him.

He's a better person than I would be, as I wouldn't still be there.

Relationships have to work for both people and your DH is giving you fair warning that this isn’t working for him. Avoid addressing it at your peril.

Agree. Have some counselling at least.

Not one person on the planet, regardless of their marital status, is entitled to sex with another person. Did the notions of consent and bodily autonomy just pass you by?

Two people who are not on the same page about their marriage can separate and divorce. That’s the fix. The fix is not for a person to be coerced into sex because of their spouse’s understanding of the marriage contract.

What you wrote is grim; rape culture is alive and well and right here on Mumsnet.

agree the incel bit is something else- but you need to address the lack of sex (intimacy?) in your marriage. It’s not sustainable as it is..
you can’t expect one of you to never have sex again - there needs to be some compromise or agreement of sorts as to what you would both be happy with and how you can move forward. I would think he is likely to leave at some point; not necessarily because of no sex, but no intimacy and you sound dismissive of his preferences. No one should have sex they don’t want to have; but it’s also about communication and intimacy and being partners’ and it doesn’t sound like you have those things. I think you should attempt some counselling and see if you can address this problem; that’s if you want your marriage to last. Lots of luck x

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have sex with your wife. He hasn't had sex in over a year. He's allowed to mention it. Many marriages don't survive without sex.

Jesus.... Is he an incel? No..... He just wants a shag love. From his wife whom actually knows he's desperate for a shag but 'has all the control'. He's not clumsy, he's flirting with you. You've even said he's looking sad. Please don't forget that that sex is so much more than just the physical act for us blokes too op - it's so much more than that to a bloke.

How do you think he feels day to day.... That he can't even get his own wife to shag him no matter what he does.....and you're expecting him to get out there and work his arse off and look after the kids and you and do all the things you expect and abide by your self imposed 'no sex' rules. What's in it for him I wonder? He wants you and just you.... For now..... And you've decided that that's it, it's off the table. And he clearly doesn't know that (because he keeps on 'clumsily' trying) Where does he get his joy from?
If you haven't already emotionally pushed him away..... You're extremely close to it. He seems like an amazing bloke (with the patience of a saint..... But patience can turn and turn quickly and once that's gone..... you're done.) Ye reap what ye sow.

I think the situation is difficult for both of you. It does feel unfair to your husband. It's great he's understanding but is it right for him to live like this. Like another poster said if you aren't doing it you tend to want it less. I'm in a great relationship now but with my ex I'd compare sex to going to the gym. Sometimes I couldn't be bothered but afterwards I was glad I went. I think you have to find a solution. Is it really a marriage without this intimacy or are you in a friend situation.

Oh grow up, this is not about 'rape culture', I did not suggest he should force himself on her! But marriage IS about sex, so if OP doesn't want sex anymore than she needs to have the decency to let him go and be happy. She said she 'has all the power' like she enjoys what she is doing to him. It's cruel and selfish.

I think it's not fair on him especially if he is a good husband and isn't acting entitled. I think if you love him, his happiness should be important to you and cice versa. It's healthy and normal to want sex and unfortunately for women hormones control our sex drive and it is difficult but i feel you shouldn't just give up for the sake of your husband and should try to make an effort. You could see a doctor about your hormones, you could take care of your self more e.g. excercise, dress up or whatever will make you feel better about your self and plan more romantic date nights or even a holiday to dedicate time each other. I know after children my sex drive suffers and while i don't feel to initiate when we do i do enjoy it. If he can make you orgasam it will really help to make tou want to do it more often.

Seems to me that neither of you know what celibacy means. I am not even sure incels know, because celibacy is voluntary.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/celibacy

Or make yourself orgasm while having sex with him.

Hi - have been/am in very similar situation. Like you we had a very healthy sex life until I had breast cancer - surgery, treatment, radiation and 6 yrs of hormone treatment meant my libido packed its bags for the full duration. The most wonderful and understanding DH was content with handholding and the odd cuddle (as long as he never touched my breasts). I knew he also “helped” himself and I was happy, and relieved, that he did that. Once the hormone treatment finished I noticed very slow and growing changes in my libido and long story short we are re-introducing a sex life. But this takes deliberate effort from me to put myself in the mood, it’s certainly not a full return but DH is a changed man with this back on the table (not literally!). The person who said the more you “practice” the easier it becomes is spot on. I have a couple of ebooks that are a little racy and usually guaranteed to help me with mood setting (he doesn’t know - bit embarrassed tbh), we’re up to about once a month but I’m trying to increase and it does become easier. My experience shows the importance of hormones in libido - I can’t take any supplements for obv reasons but if you can take these then please speak to a doc. Also - you do need to keep the cuddling going and as others have said make a concerted effort, no need to let on to DH that it’s taking this effort, I never have as it would be hurtful. Find what works for you to help you into the mood. Above all speak to a professional, DH sounds far too good to let go. Hope this is helpful.

This topic really did bring the late night loonies out.
Amongst those there was a comment that you have missed chances to speak to him when he flirts and missed a major opportunity in not responding fully after watching Adolescence.
If you deliberately refuse to talk to him you could have a cruel streak in you and enjoy the power of refusing him. It certainly seems that you don't care very much about him.

He sounds really nice and also sad that sex is no longer part of his life. Why are you annoyed he’s communicating with you honestly?

I left my partner because of issues with lack of sex, the situation was really sad, it made me sad to not feel wanted or intimate.
As I didn’t want to be unfaithful - I left him.

This may happen to you. There are sex counsellors - if you like him and he’s decent in other ways and you don’t want an open marriage - then it’s something you should try and fix. You may be lacking in hormones - or once you start it may get better and bring a whole new dimension to your life.

This post / thread has made me really sad - it’s awful to feel tied to someone for life who’s not interested in you sexually.

Not always. I’ve got a chronic health condition, and over the years I’ve had periods when I’ve not wanted sex but done it, not just to please DH, but because I wanted intimacy because I love him so very much. I’d have preferred it if there was another way of getting that close without sex, but I’ve never discovered it.

I’m sure DH doesn’t fancy doing all the household chores or constant running round after me and taking care of all my needs when I’m ill. But he does it, not through fear, but because he loves me. I certainly don’t coerce him into it.