Is it ok for a man to hit a woman if she slaps him first?

[Comparethemarket]

Just looking for opinions on this as I don't want to reveal anything to RL friends.

I was reflecting on my relationship with my ex, which was abusive in many ways (and certainly toxic, if not abusive).

Sometimes I'd say something, or ask something eg wanting reassurance (yes, I know that's needy, but there were circumstances in which I felt very insecure for good reason).

When I'd ask something about "us" there were times he'd lose his temper, shouting and screaming at me. I'd try to calm him down and plead with him to stop. On a couple of occasions he then pulled up something that just made me snap and I slapped him across the face (one of these times was saying something derogatory about my then teen children, another time he was shouting and screaming, threatening to leave and I just saw red).

I know I shouldn't have slapped him across the face, but immediately that I did on both occasions he hit me back, much harder. The first time he split my lip in retaliation and the second time I was bruised for a week afterwards.

I said it was my fault because I slapped him first, so he was therefore the victim of physical abuse.

I know everything about this relationship was so very wrong and I'm not asking for opinions on that. I'm out of it now and it will stay that way.

I know I was wrong to slap him first. I saw red and it was a way of trying to defend myself whilst he was screaming at me and telling me he didn't care.

Is he right though? Was I the one being abusive by hitting him, or saying something which made him angry in the first place?

Please no judgements. I'm just struggling to process what has happened.

👏👏👏

THIS!

Are you back with him? Cos you're using the present tense here.

How much contact are you having with him?

I haven't read the full thread, but just to answer the OP.

Obviously you should not have slapped him across the face, and you know that.
However, imo, there is NEVER an excuse for a physically fit man to return one slap.
He should have walked away.

@category12 no, I'm not back with him. I do have some contact with him because I have to (not work, but not something which means I can go completely NC). It was written in the present tense because going through things makes it still seem very present and the whole situation is something that occupies my thoughts a lot of the time, it does therefore still feel like something I am living through, rather than something completely committed to the past

I know it's something I need to move past and I'm working on that. It's tricky as there's noone I can speak to about it IRL so I end up dwelling on things and not moving on emotionally.

Of course you hitting him doesn't justify him hitting you back. Neither of you should be hitting the other. It's good that the relationship is over now. If possible try to get some counselling to work out how to move on to a healthier relationship.

Have you looked at doing the Freedom Programme or speaking to Women's Aid or similar services to help you negotiate all this? I think you can do the Freedom Programme in person or online.

Both people in a situation like this are equally at fault for their violent behaviour, whether it’s instigation or retaliation. The only difference is that men can do far more damage to women with a slap so many wouldn’t risk retaliating, however angry they are. Relationships should end when hitting starts, not turn into a slap-for-a-slap mess.

@category12 I tried to contact Women's Aid a couple of times, but I spent an hour waiting on the web-chat with noone available. I'll look into other services as suggested by MNHQ as some of those have 24/7 helplines.

You can contact the National Domestic Abuse Helpline which is available 24/7 and the Refuge webchat facility is available until 10pm Mon-Fri. You can find your local domestic abuse organisation on your council website.

Ignore this total ignorance OP. Posters like this are part of the wider problem.

Hi OP,

No I don't think he was justified in reacting violently. He has the physical advantage and he wasn't defending himself. So he was also wrong.

I think you're asking the wrong questions though and should work through this one instead -

What can I do to ensure I never end up in a relationship like this again?

Ah yes how can the OP make sure she doesn't end up in an abusive relationship again. Well of course the answer is very clear because all abusers go round wearing a large sign saying "I'm abusive"🙄
The sad reality is she can't because abusers are often adept at hiding their true selves in the beginning. All she can do is recognise the red flags as they appear, take them seriously and end a relationship if she is starting to question things. Look at your partner's actions, as their words are often very manipulative. Trust your inner voice.

You're both abusive...

Thanks for the input.

I think the thread moved on a little since then.

I don't think either incident was OK. If I was with someone like that, I'd want to slap him too. But equally, I wouldn't slap someone and not expect one straight back. If someone hit me, I'd hit them back.

2 wrongs don't make a right

Plus, it's obviously a disproportionate response. It is reasonable to defend yourself - so if you slapped him, and he felt he was in danger, of course he could defend himself, but it should be proportionate. Restraining you, or leaving the room would be the correct response. Hitting back with his full strength is not.

To put it in perspective, men have killed other people (men and women) with one punch. No woman has killed a man with a single slap.

But that's what I'm saying too...

And I'm speaking from experience after ending up in an abusive relationship in my twenties.

All the wasted energy trying to figure HIM out - it was when I went through a long, expensive, painful but ultimately very enriching process in therapy that I realised abusers were everywhere and the best thing I could do was work on myself to spot the signs, trust my instincts, know when to walk away and take everything precaution to never endanger myself again.

Sorry I typed my first reply quickly and probably wasn't clear.

Very true. On this case he can be very charming when he wants to be. Nothing is too much trouble, generous, thoughtful, kind. One of the nicest people I know.

Then the wrong thing might be said, or a wrong look or a wrong response to something and it's like a switch has flipped. If there's anybody around he'll carry on being lovely, but you know what's coming the minute you are in private. The amount of times I've begged him to calm down and just stop and discuss things as adults doesn't care thinking about. He's called me some vile names, mocked my education (I have a significantly higher level of education than him), told me how much cleverer he is than me. A few years ago I had a very serious accident which involved emergency surgery and being off my feet for several months. He asked me to move on with him temporarily and would then try to throw me out on a pretty much weekly basis whilst knowing I was house-bound and unable to do basic tasks like bath myself without assistance. He'd take me back and declare I was ungrateful for all the help he was giving me and nobody else would do for me what he was doing.

In those situations you become isolated. Not being able to tell friends or family what is going on and therefore more dependent. I would try my best to get the lovely person I know he can be back. The lovely side would come back and then within a few weeks it would slip again.

A couple of times when he finished it he got wind of someone else being interested and the charm factor would increase massively. He'd send long texts begging to try again. We would and as soon as anyone else was off the scene he'd revert back to type.

It's difficult to explain why you stay to anyone who hasn't experienced it. Isolation plays a large role, the twisting of facts during arguments so you end up apologising for them hurting you and you start to question your own reality. You desperately want the nice version back and off course the constant reminders of how good they are to you because they've done xyz that others wouldn't do. You question your own judgement too when everybody else adores the person and assume it must be you. If only you could just try a little harder, calm them down sooner, act differently etc.

I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced it can truly understand.

@Comparethemarket no, people can't understand who haven't gone through similar. I think we can all be guilty of expecting other people to see the world through our own unique lens.

You're doing great to have moved away from him but you do need to prioritise getting therapy now yourself because as a PP said abusive men are not walking around with a sign on them.

My ex was also oh SUCH a nice guy. I was the problem. I didn't trust him and that's why he was forced to lie. He treated me so well. I was messed up because of my upbringing. I attention seeking from other men. I was so beautiful and using that for validation but also not very good looking but he didn't mind because he wasn't shallow. I had low morals about sex and intimacy but using a sex worker was perfectly acceptable for him. Men who beat up women are scumbags but that didn't apply to him beating me up. Oh I could go on forever but bottom line he is a massive loser and nothing to do with me anymore.

Never. But neither should a woman hit a man.

@IlooklikeNigella sounds very familiar. I got told early on when I'd asked him about a female friend who'd called that I had trust issues. We'd only been seeing each other a few weeks at that point and I had absolutely no problem with the idea he might still be dating others as we'd not had that conversation yet. I ended up having to ask old friends if I had trust issues only to be told that I was almost the.opposite, I trust too readily and tend to assume everybody is fundamentally good. To see and hear evidence with my own eyes and ears that it isn't always the case was so far from my reality I couldn't believe it could be true.

ps apologies to anyone reading my last post for the number of mistakes. I'm posting on my phone and autocorrect is a terrible thing!

OP, I have never been in your situation, so I can't imagine the fear and dread you have felt, the walking on eggshells in case, in his eyes, you do or say something wrong, but I can clearly see the damage a relationship like that can cause.
If I was you I wouldn't beat myself up about the slaps you gave out, he deserved them.
Everyone who says he was entitled to hit you back...is wrong.

I taught my son from being young never to hit back if a girl hit him, he was entitled to defend himself...and to walk away.

Thank God you are out of that relationship.

It is ok to use violence 'in self defence'. The important bit is in self defence, so the level of violence should only be enough that it gets you out of danger. Once you are out of danger the violence is no longer acceptable, regardless of who started it. So if you partner was in fear of his life from the slap (highly highly highly unlikely) it would probably be ok to hit/push you so he could get away but no more than that. It is not ok for him to hit you back in anger as a punishment for hitting him. That covers his behaviour

It is also not OK to hit someone in frustration or anger because you don't have the appropriate coping mechanisms in place to deal with their emotional manipulation and gaslighting. That covers your behaviour

Looking at it like that you can see that both of you behaved poorly but it was chain raction with his manipulation and gaslighting, your inappropriate reapose and his further innapropriate behaviour

You cannot control others so you just have to work on your part of that interaction. You just need to work on firstly recognising abusive behaviuor and how to manage your reactions to someone who is emotionally abusive and manipulative. That way you can avoid those curcumstances in future where possible and also find better ways to handle things if you occasionally find yourself dealing with them again with someone else.

He is worse.
a slap from a woman is wrong but it doesn’t badly injury. A punch, from a man, does and could kill you. Look up reactive abuse too.

I agree with this