Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 15

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

School is accommodating - they let DS sit tests in a separate room and for this round they've let him only do subjects he'll be taking for GCSE.

It might be useful to talk to school at more length. DH was literally in tears yesterday sobbing that DS is 'years behind' and he is 'failing' but we have no indication of that from school, as I pointed out. When DH gets angry he claims DS has clearly learned nothing in school and has 'obviously' paid no attention in class but not a single teacher has suggested this. Indeed they mostly give positive and specific feedback (eg, not window dressing) that DS is a very articulate responder. They have noted anxiety and sometimes getting in a tizzy and being unable to complete written work when others have moved on, but clearly the teachers like him and he is engaged. But because of his ADHD his recall after isn't good.

The ADHD therapist we've been talkin g to made the point early on that it's better to trust the teachers and not try to 'help'. And while the teacher say he sometimes struggles there is a very clear message that he is generally doing quite well in lessons.

Thanks for this, and also to @Petra42 @Apex3 and @BustyLaRoux for the ongoing good advice about dealing with my oppositional DP.

I see one scenario that might possibly work. DP has recently made massive parenting improvements by taking accountability for how he has parented so far and really improving himself, and his childrens behaviour. I don't see his kids much but when I've done so recently, they have been a joy to behold.

DP recently woke up to the fact that he had been teaching high-conflict communication to his children and this was a big reason why both have turned out to be quite challenging.

He has told his children that one reason they had been in so much trouble and experienced social rejection was because he had showed and encouraged them to question authority and ignore hierachies. This resulted I think in the kids' belief that they were inherently bad starting to lift.

Another thing these kids have always lacked - their parents' relationship was toxic - is any exposure to healthy adult partnerships that model self-awareness, kind communcation and compromise. If they continue to lack this, they will become adults, like DP did, who have no idea what a good relationship is supposed to look like (his parents, like mine, were high-conflict).

So I plan to tell him as gently as I can - and believe me this will be my very last effort before I leave him for good - that learning, practicing and embedding better communication skills, accountability and awareness with me will be a massive gift he can give to his children. They will see something good and learn from it. DP's kids are the centre of his world and he will definitely work on himself for them, I know, because I have now seen this.

DP desperately wants me, him and our joint children to live as a family. I have refused this on the grounds that our communication is unhealthy and I have to shield my own child from growing up being influenced by how DP talks to me. I have also for the past year or so arranged the 50-50 rota with my ex so DP and I are with our kids and kid-free on the same days.

But what I think I can do now - and believe me this will be the very last effort before I give up - is tell DP he can have the 'family' he wants as soon as he is able to relate to me in a manner that shows our children a healthy adult relationship. He will want this for his kids, I think I can convince him to realise, because otherwise they will become adults who have no idea what a healthy relationship looks like, just as he did and just as I did.

So I am now planning to tell him this, on a day when he is calm and regulated, and see if he thinks it is achievable. If he does not, or argues about the strategy, then that will be my cue to leave, block all contact and change the locks.

My DH finds it hard to separate behaviour from character. Especially our kids'. He can't see the difference between "You did a bad thing" and "You are bad". So much easier for a child to think about their behaviour and change it than to be labelled as 'bad'.

Good news in that DS did manage to write a page and a bit in English test today, which is a fantastic outcome as he has frozen up in all the other English tests this year.

He felt biology was OK, and it turned out French listening was today, not tomorrow (exam schedule from school was wrong) but it sounds like he managed to answer at least some of it.

But that's fantastic news, both for him, and for the rest of the tests this week and my nerves. I was seriously worried he'd freeze on everything again like earlier this year (sadly my concern about that was less for him than for his father's response) - but if he can give a full answer in English, he should be able to say complete his other tests. I don't think he'll do as well as his last round of tests, but he'll achieve something.

Also feeling vindicated as DH, in a mood yesterday, was implying my attempts to help DS were half-arsed, but evidently they actually helped thanks very much. 😛

@Echobelly have you been able to make your DH see that he could permanently damage his relationship with DS if this carries on? Have you covered this in depth with the therapist? It took my DH sometime not to be so triggered by DS when he had meltdowns but he copes much better these days and doesn’t take them as a personal criticism which is how he appeared to view them, DS was disobeying by being unable to calm down, I think this also triggered childhood trauma/flashbacks of a kind for DH, the noise etc. (Although I’m convinced of this it is only my supposition, DH has a terrible memory so doesn’t remember bad shit from childhood, when he was likely told often by school that he was stupid and disobedient.)
DH does still find it deeply uncomfortable when DS has a meltdown (as do I, but in an emotional protective way) but he generally doesn’t get angry over them anymore. Or if he does he is able to walk away.
Can you unpick with DH why disobedience is what he sees, when as you know and presumably he does too when not in the moment, that your child is simply struggling to cope and process stuff.
I wonder if DS’s response is triggering something deep for DH, that he was made to feel a failure for similar behaviour as a kid, that his response as batshit as it seems is a protective mechanism, for himself ie can’t bear to witness his child struggle, but also the flailing around and getting angry is him trying to stop your son from going through the same awful feeling DH went through when he couldn’t cope as a child.
The therapist we were using at one point got us to read the book below, it’s a bit of a mind warp but it’s interesting in terms of regarding why we respond to things the way we do, what function our response serves, because in our heads the responses we give are serving a purpose, usually a protective one to our inner being/child even if they seem completely at odds to everyone else.
Internal Family Systems Therapy by Richard C Schwartz

This.

I must admit, I’m surprised you even want to see him again let alone stay together? It really sounds awful.

@Labrakadabra sorry. I hadn’t read your latest post above. I see you’ve given yourself an internal deadline as it were. Best of luck.

Gosh @Labrakadabra that feels very….final. Which I’m not saying is a bad thing. Perhaps it needs to be. I do think protecting yourself and your DC at all costs is the right way to go and that moving in with DP will likely not go well. Certainly not as things stand. Which is the overwhelming feeling from all of us who now have the benefit of hindsight.

However I think there is some ambiguity in your caveat. Because what you see as healthy adult communication may well be different to how he sees it. Who decides then whether you have reached this point and, ultimately, whether you have not? How long do you give it before you cut and run? What defines healthy communication?

I’m absolutely not trying to pick holes in your reasoning. I think it’s sound. (I also think it’s unachievable with the DP you have, but I guess that’s for you to decide). My experience of people with autism (perhaps your DP is different to the people I know) is that it is absolutely necessary to set very clear parameters and timescales. This would mean healthy adult communication is defined as a, b and c and the absence of x, y and z. This will be reviewed in x amount of time. If either one or both of us does not feel this has been achieved then that is the end of the matter. We have tried and it has not been possible.

It is of course up to you. You sound very pragmatic and sensible. He must bring some good to the party otherwise you wouldn’t be considering moving in together. Some of the interactions do sound really challenging, but equally my interactions with DP often sound equally, if not more, challenging. And yet I am still with him. I am actually pretty happy. I am not sure I would back in with him though. Or anyone else come to think of it!!

@Labrakadabra is your DP ND and you are NT? Sorry if I’ve missed it

Yes, I have repeatedly told him this will harm his relationship with DS and that this could also lead to him disengaging with education, and have discussed this with therapist. At the moment he is still a sweet (and not very mature) boy, but who knows what might happen when hormones kick in? He might decide 'Well if I can't do anything right and I'm lazy, then fuck this' and decide to not bother with school. I keep explaining to him I am not just being nice and fluffy-wuffy, I am trying to be effective. I also think we need to prioritise - French is not important in the scheme of things, and not worth wrecking his relationship with DS over. Also English will be essential to him being able to take A-levels.

It is hard for DH not just because of ND, but also he was parented dysfunctionally by parents who found his 'difference' an affront, and were prone to rage and high criticism, especially his mum, and his dad always sided with her. Him telling me this is one of the reasons I started to stand up for the kids more when he went too far in my mind, because I wanted them to see me do so. Sometimes I've probably been wrong and misread the situation, but I still don't regret it - what matters is modelling the behaviour that we don't just fold to angry people when they're wrong or might be.

@@Echobelly you have to stand up for your kids, so yes we occasionally get it wrong (I know I’ve verbally jumped at DH when I shouldn’t) but stepping up for them is the right thing to do.

Yeah, I genuinely don't regret it. It pisses of DH but I'll admit when I'm wrong.

Hi again everyone. It's been nearly a month now since dh was diagnosed with Parkinsons. He is on medication which seems to be slowly starting to work. He has been off work for 4 months and will probably be off the rest of the year. He is hopeful he will go back but obviously no one knows at this point.
The diagnosis has changed everything for us, at the same time it doesn't actually change anything. It still feels surreal and weird.
I am scared, angry, frustrated, sad and anxious, I'm very anxious.
Just before he got diagnosed I had finally plucked up the courage to tell him I didn't want to continue with the way we were. I feel totally blindsided now.
I have been researching all I can about Parkinsons and understand that it is very manageable, until it's not. I truly believe dh has been diagnosed early enough that his medication will kick in and he will be able to live a reasonably normal life.
In saying all that, I don't know what to do with the information.
Our relationship has not changed one iota in the last month.
He is still practically non-verbal, he tells me his BP and gives me a rundown of his symptoms a few times a day, he still spends his time in his room. He still doesn't talk.
Unbelievably or not surprisingly he still hasn't sat the kids down and actually informed or discussed anything with them about his diagnosis.
Everything is on hold for now. Just putting one foot in front of the other.
Thought I would update you all though💐

Oh @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy that’s tough. I think I’d honestly wait for him to be functioning again, hopefully, using the time whilst this happens to get organised and then leave. His treatment of you and lack of respect for the kids, they must be aware something is up, is awful. He chose to do nothing about his situation for so long and make you all suffer in the process. If he can function then you can walk away, knowing you had made the decision before the diagnosis. I’m sure he would have been gone in a heart beat if the situation was reversed. Although if he doesn’t become functioning I don’t know what I’d do. So difficult when you care for someone but they don’t reciprocate. I’d probably be prepared to live in the same house but get all the carers in and live my own life, if I couldn’t see them unable to do stuff. But this is such a nasty bind. But then he’s likely to weaponise his non functioning, ugh so difficult. Hugs

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy that came to more then I thought. I suppose it depends on how his mind is going to absorb this news and how he will respond to this once he has had the time to come to terms. I imagine he is probably quite alarmed and on high alert so gone into his shell. Better than him wondering around the house overwhelmed and not in control of his thoughts and actions. Hopefully this doesn’t just overwhelm him permanently and he can’t get past it.

We’re both ND. I have a diagnosis of ADHD. He’s ADHD with a large number of ASD traits Hes also diagnosed with complex PTSD. This is the thing that walks and talks like BPD (or he may just be BPD).

How did they tease apart the ADHD and the c-ptsd as they appear so similar?

I'm so sorry @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy this might take some time to process, for all of you. Like others say you can still, when you feel able to, continue to make your plans to leave. He might have been diagnosed with a life limiting illness but the way he has behaved towards you and your DC has not been kind amd considerate and you are within your right to do what is best for you and your health. You can still support him and be kind but be aware of your own boundaries.

A friend of mine has a neurological disability, which makes her physically disabled, and something she told me springs to mind. She said she is responsible for doing her bit to manage her condition so that she is able to care for and look after her children. For her this means exercise and making sure she eats to avoid being in too much pain or having flare ups. Her children need her so she hold herself accountable for what is within her control. It feels like your DH has been very focused on himself in all this and not really considering the effect it has on you and your DC? 🫂

Gosh @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy that’s a huge shock to you all. I think it’s really important to take time to just let the shock subside.

My DH has a chronic illness and looking back to when our relationship first ruptured and I considered leaving, every person around me used this to undermine me. Nobody, not even my own parents thought through what was best for me. The focus switched entirely to DH and my job was to become the best support human I could, including jettisoning a specialism in the job I had trained for.

I'm here to repeat to you - a hundred times a day if you like - that you are a person, you are more than a support human, you deserve to have agency and to be empowered to live the life you want. You deserve to have choice, you deserve to have peace. You don't owe anyone care beyond your kids. You don't have to stay, you can leave today if you choose. NO judgement. Sending hugs.

Sending hugs, FWIW @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy . That sounds rough and heavy on everyone.

So we had what I thought was great news yesterday - school want to take DS off French GCSE and put on a BTEC instead. I thought 'Praise the Lord! No more awful arguments and yelling with DH trying to "teach" DS French'

DS was immediately rather crushed by the news, and worried that having a BTEC would limit his choices (and later added it would mean being in a class with 'the badly behaved kids'). DHs response was 'Well, you have 6 weeks to totally turn around your French and convince them then', while acknowledging it probably wasn't going to happen.

I just kept my mouth shut. I guess at least DH isn't phoning the school demanding DS do French GCSE, which I think he might have done if DS had said 'Yippee! No more French!' 🙄

I resisted the urge to beg DS to please God just take the BTEC, but away from DH assured him no one was going to be angry if he didn't somehow make 3 years of French progress in 6 weeks and get back on the course and just assured him the BTEC wouldn't harm his options and honestly it would create conditions for him to do better in all his other subjects. And told him to talk to the teachers about the decision.

The best skill in life is emotional regulation and how to keep it stable. French is so far down list. If it means he is more stable and not in overwhelm then it’s a massive win. I have a child with whom my expectations have been set quite low academically. There is no point in having intelligence if your emotions highjack you into not being able to use it. It’s a shame he isn’t on board.

I just keep thinking of a poster here just last week with a ADHD child in Y10 with a very similar profile and predictions to DS, who wanted to ask school to drop GCSE because her daughter just could not pick up any French, just like DS. And it was now making her so stressed it was affecting other subjects. Which I think is exactly what would happen to DS.

DH, to be fair, isn't really fighting the decision. I was a bit nervous breaking it to him. But he is treating it a bit like it's a punishment to DS for not working hard enough, which I think is unfair. It's a sensible decision to enable him to achieve better in his other subjects at the end of the day.

That’s not nice for your son to carry, the shame of not bring good enough. The air of it being a punishment could create shame. I’m sure that’s how your husband views it as that’s probably how it was done to him. A bit of shame will push him along but in reality shame does the opposite. Reward and punishment doesn’t work in ND kids, that’s part of the NT world.

The wonderful thing about ND is actually the innate drive for curiosity, which acts as an internal motivation .

Yeah just don’t do this for reward or punishment. Tried this with my child and they just get so stuck on doing something wrong. ND kids seem to get so worried that they are doing something wrong, it’s sad. You just have to go along with what they have interest in and let it exist with zero expectations. It’s hard, goes against all “normal” expectations.
But they really are very inquisitive, hundreds of why questions.