Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 15

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

If he does have BPD then dialectic therapy is the best. If he will engage in it, genuinely try, then there may be a future. If he won't, then I'm afraid the best thing you can do is step away. Easy to say, hard to do but untreated and unacknowledged BPD is extremely difficult within a relationship.

You’re so right. It’s not for me to label anything. DARVO is wrong and it’s about me not accepting it. It’s for him to know why he does it.

Hmm I don’t know anything about BPD, but I would say these exchanges do sound somewhat familiar.

I think it started with you saying “you cancelled…” You then went on to say it didn’t matter but could we plan better. But I guess by that point you’d lost him because all he heard was “YOU are to blame for our lack of date nights because YOU keep prioritising your children” (a couple of the autistic people I am close to will always assume they’re being blamed. It’s how they interpret every comment!), and so he went on the defence by attack or DARVO. Very common from my experience of people with autism.

Similarly with “I don’t feel heard/safe”. It has to be all about them (sorry, I’m not trying to generalise about all people with autism when I say “them”). Also DARVO and taking on role of victim at all times.

Perhaps after his therapy he wanted to try and take a bit of responsibility (I am guessing here), but was only able to do so as long as you also accepted blame for how you behave. I think you said this was mutualising. I don’t know if this is common to BPD but I’d say this tendency could be present in individuals with autism too. Accepting a small amount of blame (perhaps the therapist was, as you say, trying to steer him away from blaming you for everything). I know my DP thinks he understands everyone’s psychology so would love nothing more than to psychoanalyse me and explain what I do. Even better if it meant he could not lose face for something else at the same time.

And god yes to you bringing up an issue which is bothering you, only to quickly find it’s your DP/H who is now the upset one! My emotions act as a trigger and then I have to deal with his upset or anger because I expressed a feeling. Again, my feelings are often been interpreted only in terms of how they make him feel. Eg. The other day he needed to do something for his DD. I was reminding him it hadn’t been done and saying it will likely make her feel less favoured than her (horrible) brother. DP was very receptive and yes thank you and he totally understood and would do something about it. He wasn’t annoyed at me for mentioning it, but he did immediately start with how he’s failed again. I quickly nipped that in the bud and said, you don’t get to make this about your feelings! Concentrate on hers. This is not about you!

But yes, other people’s feelings are definitely triggers. There is some limited understanding of the other person’s feeling - when things are pointed out. But very little natural empathy. More likely he will be triggered and switch the focus to that.

As for telling you off for sounding like a therapist and then immediately using therapist speak (“weaponising words”) - Complete hypocrisy!

So yes, to me, all of this could well be autism. I have zero knowledge of BPD so cannot say whether it could be that instead.

I agree @DucklingSwimmingInstructress
Also historically, many people with autism have (wrongly) been diagnosed with BPD and even schizophrenia instead.

@Labrakadabra I there are many things going on there.
Your DP is emotionally abusive and has learnt to use all the psychobabble to reject any responsibility and make it your fault. That, in itself, is a 🚩🚩
Now my own take is that theres probably a nice mix of autism and trauma going on (I think many autistic people carry trauma, just because of the autism). Hence his (protective for him) reactions. This doesn’t make it ok though.

If you’re like me, saying enough is enough might feel easier if he is BPD rather than autistic. But in reality, the diagnostic doesn’t matter. What matters is ‘are your needs met? Are you feeling seeing and heard? Is (emotional) repair possible?’ And from what you’ve posted, none of that is.
And it’s ok to say ‘my needs aren’t met. We’re not compatible’. It’s not cruel. It’s just honest.

I was thinking about things for a bit and I think I’ve come to an understanding of the situation. I look at it that some people with asd perhaps just have a different set or wiring to parts of the brain. So whereas in nt people something happens and the brain go to an emotional side of the brain with set responses an asd brain sends it to the logical side. It’s literally just a wire going to a different part of the brain. It’s not intentional or deliberate. Some folk also have a more emotional response and skip the logical and can seem OTT, its subconscious and not deliberate.

I can only imagine what this does to a person navigating life with absolutely no idea about the things going on, why they can’t connect, why they seem different. Personality disorders are often just disordered thinking and assumptions. I can bet a lot of people develop this when no one in life as a child has helped and supported them. They literally left guessing and often getting it wildly wrong.

Its self preservation and a defence mechanism to blame the other person to retain some resemblance of ego in a world where you feel alien in.

For some people we are both their source of love and a trigger for their deepest shame. They can compartmentalise this because they are disordered. We try and contain this but we can’t because we are not disordered. We end up breaking our brain.

@BustyLaRoux - I do find it hard to understand how much DH seems to make things about him. Particularly as he can be very sensitive to being considerate of the needs of others in general (better than me). But a lot of the time when he gets really emotionally disordered it's because he perceives he is being 'undermined' or 'disrespected'. Like he sees DS's inability to do French as direspecting him and his efforts to teach him. I mean, I'm a Literature grad and DS has real difficulty with English/Lit analysis (although a perfectly good reader and generally perceptive) but I don't take that personally... DS can be frustratingly unresponsive when I try to get anything out of him on, say, a comprehension task, but he's not throwing it in my face or being ungrateful, it's just he can't do it for whatever reason (probably the ADHD)

It's not other people's feelings so much that set of DH, it's reading overly negative motives into them - treating things as deliberate choices/actions when they're just the result of misunderstandings, for example.

There are no misunderstanding though for a logical brain. There has to be a fault. Your husband is doing a good job at teaching but your d.s is finding it difficult. To your dh the fault must be your son. It must be deliberate because he perceives your son as being like himself, fully able, when he is not because he’s not your husband. He can’t take into account that your son is a completely different person, with a different brains and thoughts etc.

Yeah, he is trying. He has recently accepted (when in normal conversation) that DS's ADHD gives him much more learning issues than DH ever had, and his poor working memory means languages are very hard when there's so much to work out and remember at once.

The trouble is that any understanding seems to vanish when DH gets emotionally disregulated.

I'm listening to this. I'm only part of the way in but so far it seems spot on.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=fqS7BNsKC8w&si=C8vZ1um9SyRQ_eY6

What really goes on behind closed doors in neurodivergent relationships? Psychosexual Therapist and ND Relationship Coach Karen Doherty brings 20+ years of experience to this eye-opening episode on late diagnosis, emotional dysregulation.

In this chat with Ben Branson, Karen unpacks why neurodiverse couples often struggle, and more importantly, how they can thrive. From the "code word" method to breaking the trigger cycle, Karen shares practical tools that help make strong ND couples. She also reveals hard truths about unmet needs, communication breakdowns, and the dangers of fast-moving, intense connections.

00:00 Introduction
1:44 20 Years of Neurodivergence in a Relationship: What’s Changed?
7:11 Late Diagnosis VS Relationships
8:44 Post ADHD & Autism Diagnosis VS Relationships
13:33 The #1 Struggle Most Neurodivergent Couples Face
14:02 Increased Communication Challenges: RSD & Emotional Dysregulation
22:20 The Danger of Unavailability: Karen’s Top Tips
27:24 ND VS Dating Apps: Karen’s Top 3 Tips
30:07 The Neurodivergent Intense Connection: From 0-100
33:58 Keeping The Magic Alive: Karen’s Top Tips
40:55 The Biggest Unmet Needs in Neurodivergent Relationships
44:16 The Impact of Neurodivergence On People’s Individual Lives
45:55 The Biggest Transformations of Neurodivergent Couples in Therapy
47:33 Noticing Signs of Neurodivergence: Karen’s Advice for Couples
52:11 Neurodivergence and Integration
55:15 Should You Disclose Your Neurodivergent Whilst Dating?
57:08 Shutting Down Neurodivergent Myths
58:39 If ND Couples Therapy Resonates: What Next?
1:00:35 Karen’s Green Badge Choice

Thanks so much for this reply. I'm intrigued that it sounds familiar to you too.

I've noticed a new pattern. OH Darvo's and emotionally abuses when he feels rejected.

Today he offered to come over and help with house stuff next week. Very kind actually.

I said thank you, and also (I don't do 'but' as he's so oppositional) I do want to make you aware of why that might be hard for us to spend much time together next week. I'm possibly going to feeling really keyed up about x thing. Its going to be a feeling, not a fact, but it might bother you so I'd like to give this information to you and you can choose what to do with it.

Him: That feeling makes no sense! Its not true.

Me: Sure, its a feeling. I'd be happy if you could validate it but of course you don't need to accept or agree with it. I may need some support with it, or you can choose not to come and not to support.

Him: Deciding how you are going to feel in the future is ridiculous.

Me: I don't see it that way. Being aware of what feelings will likely arise and putting safety rails in place such as telling you it might make things hard for us to spend this time together, is what I consider to be responsible self management.

Him: Now you're telling me what I need. You don't get to tell me what I need (parroting, because I told him originally that defining someone else's needs, interpretations etc is emotional abuse).

Me: (Quite cross suddenly). I did not tell you what you need. I am going to repeat what I know I said. You can decide I am lying if you want to. I have no control over that. I deserve to be trusted.

Him: This is ridiculous. I don't need to be on the phone with someone who is shouting at me. I just want peace. I'm a laid back guy. Why do you go off on one like this?

Me: (calmer now). As I said, I decided to give you some information to enable you to make a choice. I have no expectation either way. It is my right to share information about myself. What I don't want is a situation next week where you turn up all enthused about helping and instead of appearing grateful I appear grumpy.

Him: This conversation has been going on for far too long! I'm busy!

Me: I know. I agree. Also the way to make this kind of conversation much shorter, I suggest, is that we validate the other's feeling and move on to another topic or get on with our day.

Him: Don't tell me what to do. Why do you expect me to be exactly like you? So controlling!

Me: I was giving you information. You can validate me and then decide for yourself, that's all.

Then about 10 minutes more of him telling me who I am, what I am, what I am doing, how I feel, what I really mean and dredging up past issues.

Me: I am not happy about all of those things you have said.

Him: Silence. No apology.

Me: Anyway, lets move on. None of these things are the topic under discussion for now. As I said, I offered information about a feeling, because I wanted to. I gave you a clear choice - come over and be aware I might not be well regulated, or don't come. I don't mind. Again, I am really grateful for the offer of help. I am worried you may be dissapointed.

Him: Don't tell me how I will and will not feel! You're defining future me! ARGH! Why does this conversation have to last so long? This ALWAYS happens!

Me: It is for you to define how you may or may not feel. I am doing this for myself and sharing that with you. Another thing I suggest to shorten such conversations is that if one of us says 'x hurt me' the other says 'I'm sorry, what I can I do to make things right?'

Him: You are telling me to apologise just like you would!

Me: Any apology format is fine. It is good to apologise when the other says they are hurt. Then you move on. As I have said before, I expect apologies.

Him: I will NOT promise anyone I am in a relationship apologies!

Me: Of course. And I do not ask people to apologise for certain things either. I can expect an apology and also control what I will do if I do not get one.

Him: I hate it when you get all intellectual. I like the version of you that does not do this, and speaks from the heart and not the head.

Me: OK. So recall a few minutes ago I said X was hurtful? (I wait)

Him: I can't be in a relationship with someone who expects me to apologise.

Now for those who read to the end, what is this? Emotional abuse, rejection sensitivity, shame-defense mechanism, or all of the above?

I am very, very pleased with myself because I didn't cry or over-react. I got cross at one point - highly provoked - but calmed myself immediately. This is like water off a duck's back now.

The next work I have to do - and I sense this is a reason many of us are on here - is what I do about the fact OH is going to continue being this way. I don't feel abused, at all, I just find it quite fascinating and somewhat annoying.

They start to feel a bit like children, don't they?

@Labrakadabra honestly what it sounds like is bloody hard work and not worth the effort. It sounds like he is aware on some level but can’t process that, feels attacked when emotions become a topic and panics because he literally doesn’t understand them and then flails around being unpleasant until you finally (from his point of view) stop talking about it. Life is far too short, he’s not a project to be fixed he’s a grown man who doesn’t/can’t/won’t (delete as appropriate) understand that you are a human being who deals in emotion. I couldn’t live with this and I’m not sure why you would choose to pursue this level of emotional disruption on a regular basis. Even if you say it is now water off a ducks back surely there are more enjoyable things to be doing with your time than trying to unpack a man who clearly doesn’t care about you in the way you need him to. Sorry I’m aware this sounds rude but why are you putting yourself through it if you don’t have to?

I feel exactly as you say I should. It is not worth the effort.

I think I am still with this man - and know its likely I will not stay much longer - for my own closure, actually. I started to see what was happening. I denied it. Then I bargained to attempt to change it by speaking to him about it. Then I got extremely angry when he would not attempt to change. Then I decided I needed to be sure I was correct in my interpretation of what was happening and wanted to collect more data. I approach all conversations with him objectively and try to be as open to signs he is not being abusive as I am to signs that he is.

The EA isn't constant. But as you say, any time emotions become a topic he behaves awfully because he cannot understand emotions, kind communication, assertiveness, the feeling/fact distinction or that how he thinks things should go is not immediately agreed by me.

I am watching and recording right now because I'm not in any danger. He shows absolutely no sign of becoming violent. And if he ever was, because he works in a job that requires a DBS, I would get him fired. So I'm fine.

My decision is whether to just accept we don't talk about emotions and that's how it is, or to leave because that is too far a compromise to consider.

Please tell me more about your 'acceptance' strategy.

I like the sound of this.

How do you do it please, and how does it help? (I have missed quite a lot of this thread so apologies if asking for repetition).

‘Acceptance’ - to me at least - means you stop trying to make a neurodiverse relationship that will never work work.

you function on a day to day basis as two independent people. Two people who are not in a relationship but manage to co-exist just about well enough and be generally reasonable and polite enough that living under the same roof is just about bearable :)

my only strategy has been to sign out of the relationship altogether and I have been far far happier since doing that. I am a completely independent single person and the only thing to say I am married is a bit of paper somewhere

Yes, I often feel that I am dealing with someone with emotional maturity of an adolescent (which are, as far as I am concerned, often very like toddlers due to a weird period they go through of emotional regression). Essentially I often feel like I’m dealing with a toddler.

My response is really long @Labrakadabra!!! I’m so sorry. You don’t have to read it! :)

I don’t know if your OH felt rejected (although obviously you would know better than me of course!!). When I read through your dialogue, which I have two or three times now, trying to imagine this as if it were my DP, this is what would be going on in his head. (I appreciate he is a different person to your OH! But they sound like they have some similarities)

Firstly, I got the sense of confusion on your OH’s part. You had tried to have an adult conversation and to give him a heads up about something which was significant to you and would illicit an emotional response in you. What I got from reading this through was that often trying to have sensible adult conversations about your own feelings is going to be hard with someone whose emotional maturity is that of an adolescent (toddler). For a start you’re talking about feelings which are not his, so you’re on a hiding to nothing from the start really! He obviously had a problem applying his version of logic (which is of course the only truth) to your situation. He even said “how can you possibly know how you will feel about something in the future?” He clearly isn’t able to do that. Again doing that would require emotional development and knowing yourself and what your emotional response to something will be, let alone taking the time to actually stop and think about it, is the behaviour of a developed self aware brain. It’s not logical to him, because he doesn’t have that kind of brain. Therefore you are the one that doesn’t make any sense/is illogical and is trying to complicate matters.

By this point he felt irritated (why is she making me have this ridiculous conversation?!) so your calm explanation that you were just trying to forewarn him about something (which was inconsequential and irrelevant as far as he seemed to think) may have been seen as you treating him like a child (which is sort of what we have to do a lot of the time! Predict the emotional meltdowns. Try to be proactive in terms of placating rather than reactive. It really is like knowing you’re going to need snacks when out with your toddler to avoid the inevitable meltdown!! We’re so used to doing it!). Perhaps he sensed this a bit and, irritated already, went off on one about you having no place telling him what he needs!!! Also, of course, as you say, he’d heard you say this before and probably banked it subconsciously for use at a later date. My DP certainly has a HUGE thing for people not telling him how he feels. It makes him furious if he thinks I’m doing that. He bangs on about his ex and how she ignored his feelings. He is very focused on having his truth heard and doesn’t take kindly to someone else interpreting his needs for him.

And of course once you snapped at him then he was the victim! And you were cementing what he already knew. You’re the angry one trying to argue and he is the calm laid back victim in all this! You explaining you would like an apology is probably seen as a demand and also a “look how wonderful I am compared to you because I know how to apologise!” Which is then going to illicit the very typical “I will not apologise! I will not be told what to do! I am not a puppet. I don’t do what is expected!!” (DP has real issue with following expectations and rules. I find it really bizarre that autistic people are often viewed as people who need to rigidly follow rules. DP is the complete opposite and takes great pride in his autonomy. I think he feels like he’s won!!)

If you’ll forgive me (you might not like what I have to say, so apologies if this comes across as rude or preachy!), I think when he made clear he didn’t see the point in the conversation and you agreed, you said “Anyway, let’s move on….As I said…” and I think this was a mistake. (Sorry!). Leaving it at “let’s move on” might have been better. DP does this to me. He says he wants a conversation to end. I immediately say “ok fine yes” and then he feels the need to say “all I’m saying is….” And then reiterates what he’s already told me / his point of view. Which I don’t need to hear again. Especially not after we have just agreed to end the conversation and move on. DP has lastworditis! Despite often being the one to say he wants the conversation to end, as soon as I agree he then has to have the final word on the matter. I usually stop him and say “no actually. We are either ending the conversation, as you’ve requested, or we are continuing to iterate our views. You cannot ensure the conversation ends, but only for me, while you carry on making your point! Either we both stop talking about this or we don’t!” I pull him up on this when he does it. Which is often.

In short, your OH sounds pretty insufferable. I could imagine a similar conversation with DP. I am fortunate to have moved into my own accommodation and this means as and when he has his intolerable moments, I don’t feel the need to enter into a dialogue about it. I don’t feel the need to explain myself or try and reason. I just say “I’m going to leave. You’re not being very nice”. I don’t get drawn in any more. Much easier now we live apart. The physical space and my ability to walk away without any escalation means he seems to be much better at reflecting on what he’s just said, realise he’s been a dick, and apologise profusely. I tend to say “thank you for the apology, but I really don’t need one. What I need is for you to think about what you said and how it might have come across/made me feel. And try and use that information for future reference”. I find apologies quite useless. They’re too easy to say. I would much prefer the mental effort that is required to have some empathy. Much harder than an apology!! DP seems to be getting a whole lot better at this!

I don’t know what you should do. Sounds like you already live apart.? Do you see a future with this man? I don’t mean moving in together. It’s perfectly
possible to be in a partnership and not live together. But is that what you want? Are there positives that balance out this type of infuriating interaction?

Acceptance for me is accepting his limitations and how he is.

So for us, it means (in no particular order)

• not talking about feelings (no emotional vulnerability, talk about how he feels etc….) or me not talking when very emotional
• not expecting reciprocity or partnership - by that I mean problem solving together, making choice together etc… it doesn’t work
• very little to no small talk
• letting him have his own life to organise how he wants (ie many hours/days doing his special interests)

Basically living parallel lives together.

It will mean something pretty different for you I imagine. But it’s not a marriage in the sense I would define it in an NT/NT marriage.

As I said, it’s a compromise I’m so far happy to do? But it’s not one I’d advise anyone to do.

This is how we co exist too.

What’s so frustrating for me is that there’s a much richer world / experience that we will never have together.

Something has shifted in me in the last 3 weeks since I ended up aborting to a hotel in the middle of the night and DS hearing the argument.

DH asked me out on a date night last night - dinner and a movie. I thought that sounded safe.

He came home from work completely intoxicated - slurring, slow speech etc.

This morning I said to him that he was inotxicated when he came back from work, and going forwards I would be staying at home and not going out if he’s been drinking (he comes home most days smelling of alcohol).

He said ‘ok’.

A few hours later while I was getting my hair cut, he texted an apology and I thanked him.

He's not been speaking to me since and we’re due to watch a film together this eve and he’s built a barricade of cushions between us.

I can see this being the easier road to take.
I am starting to fantasise about it.
My OH has ADHD too.
He winds up, I say that gave me ‘a feeling’ and then he goes all autistic about being unable to handle a discussion about feelings (which he caused!!!)
And then he gets rejection sensitivity and decides I have called his entire character and being hurtful. He said sorry the other day. I said that’s really great to get an apology. He said ‘what I mean is I feel sorry that I even exist.’

I think it’s worse for him having a brain that thinks like this than it is for me. This is because I have choice over how I think about what he does. He has no choice, seemingly, over how he thinks at all.

Your analysis of this conversation is spot on. And the advice on how to end conversations is so interesting.

Definitely right there is emotional immaturity here. I do think it - or at least displaying a version of it - can be taught. OH just hasn’t learned.

My son, 12, has ASD. He’s done a kid version of DBT (which teaches is to recognize and respond to emotions) and is now amazing at discussing his own feelings, The other day he said he was angry at a substitute teacher. Then he said ‘oh actually I was angry and I’m not sure it was ‘at’ anyone.’ We then worked out the anger was a secondary emotion and the primary one was fear. He feared the sub would not know about his reasonable adjustments or tell him off for doing autisms.

OH cannot do this! He has an emotion, directs it whoever is in his orbit (me!) and believes I have caused his emotion (feelings are a fact). I can’t coach him out of this as if he were a child.

What I can do is use the Nash rule (philosophy grad here!) This is a bit like Prisoners Dilemma. ‘No one has an incentive to change until you change your strategy.’

I have ‘Nashed’ OH before. It works. We don’t live together but he used to want me at his house when he had his kids. I was unhappy about their behavior. Two undiagnosed and untreated ADHD at the time.

First I just said things. OH got stuck in ‘defending’ his kids (to him a comment about a behavior is a character assassination). He helped them less than if I had not been there. I realised.

So I simply stopped visiting. I said I had better things to do than argue about someone else’s children. 👧 He was left with nothing to see but their behavior. Then stepped up amazingly.
He got both kids on meds and into therapy and they are almost angelic most of the time now. Fantastic progress.

This is a reason I have been patient with OH regarding his own issues. The kids were extremely draining and time consuming for him for many years. His exw doesn’t really engage in their treatment even tho they do 50-50 on paper. OH does all of that now. It’s a big job.

But I need to incentivise him to treat himself now. So what’s the Nash? Or do I need another kind of new move?

The big thing he wants now is to live with me. His plan is to use his home equity to build a big extension on my place. He’s super practical and would plan and manage the whole project. He’s fixated on this fantasy house for us. He’s messaging about dormers etc a lot. I stay neutral as I think this is leverage but I’m not sure how to use it.

WDYT?

@Labrakadabra To be honest, I would think very long and hard about moving in together. It's great that he was eventually able to help his kids with therapy and meds, and it sounds like you have some boundaries in place, too. Yet, as someone who is currently trying to leave an emotionally immature man, I'd advise caution before blending your families as blending is hard anyway, particularly when ND is involved!

@BustyLaRoux makes some excellent points about the kind of conversations and frictions that occur when trying to have a discussion with these men (yes, I know they are all different and individuals but there are some common themes that seem to be almost universal in these relationships) much of which I can relate to too.

@Labrakadabra he works on himself and you have a solid year or more of 95% decent non knob behaviour and then maybe think about moving in together. Once the children are over 18.
Or preferably for the love of god do not ever do this, so many women on this thread are trapped living with someone who is unable to be a proactive half in a loving relationship, nothing you’ve said suggests moving in together would be a wise move. Right now if he’s intolerable you have your own space to retreat to, imagine if that were not available to you…….

I'm spending more time in my little retreat/sanctuary room now and finding it's helping me to remain focused and more clear headed about things. Having looked at flats to rent in nearby towns and done some calculations (benefits as full time carer for DD) it would be tight but just about possible. The downside is that I'm not sure I could get a landlord to accept me as I would be relying on Universal Credit housing element for rent. If I could get H to be my guarantor it might work... However, somethings are happening that means everything is shifting.

Firstly my dad had another fall and broke his other hip and has now developed post op pneumonia and is still in hospital. So I am now even more worried about my DF as he is now so veey, very frail 😔 and, if he is unable to return home due to high care needs, I may have to deal with sorting and selling a massive house and accompanying workshop as don't think he can keep his house sitting empty.

Secondly, H found rat droppings in the loft yesterday. This might not seem like a massive deal but we had the rat infestation from hell 5 years ago and it sent H into a really bad and dark place. He developed something akin to paranoia, and even now, the slight scratchy sound sends him off.

It took nearly 4 months of weekly Ratman (pest control) visits, at least two litters of baby rats scurrying around in cavity walls, one rat breaking into the kitchen causing chaos, before 'Ratzilla' finally ate the bait and died in the loft, found and disposed by H (she was huge!).

It was horrible and I don't think we could cope with that again. Since yesterday H has mentioned moving a few times and I know he is seriously thinking this. This house is not one I feel attached to and if he is now considering this I need to make my next move as moving with him is not my wish.

In some ways we are in a fortunate position in that H bought the house at low price 20 years ago, we extended 8 uears ago and the increased value and small remaining mortgage would potentially cover a tiny house and a flat (I want the flat as less hassle) in a slightly less desirable town nearby. Although this will not be what H wants of course so it won't be as simple as that!