Knowing marriage is over

[thelab]

Hello,

I’m married with 2 DC. Home in joint mortgage and I work FT. I’ve only recently changed jobs and took a bit of a pay cut; this was to study so I’ll eventually have much better earning middle of next year. I’m 31.

I’ve been feeling ‘stuck’ in marriage for a while now. DH just completely messy to the extremes and not wanting to take on the mental load of much, to keep it very brief!
We’d do nothing outside of parenting but if his friends popped up, he’d be so excited and making all the effort. If he couldn’t go, he’d mope about and speak of how he doesn’t want to let that part of his life go (socialising) and blame me for it. They can’t do anything together that doesn’t involve getting drunk.
Nights are spent with him falling asleep on the sofa snoring.

Anyway, DH got invited to a stag do which he’s currently on, he went yesterday and until Monday evening. He first told me about it in passing at a concert of my favourite band, knowing I’d be distracted, then slyly just booked himself onto it, without even a discussion about it. He then said he wasn’t going, as a previous stag do he went on, late last year, made him miss the children too much.

I repeatedly told him I wasn’t happy about the way he went about this, not ‘permission’, just the lack of courtesy to discuss it. I also told him I wasn’t happy as we haven’t even got a family holiday booked this year, yet he’s been to the stag last year, this one and is going on a weekend away for his dad’s birthday next month. He started changing from not going, to going, saying he felt emotionally manipulated by me telling him the children had been upset on the previous one. He assured me he’d make sure we had a family holiday booked before he went however.

Obviously, that didn’t happen and I have no idea how much he’s taken money wise. Before he left, he didn’t even send a message to say he was getting on the plane/that he loves us as he usually would and all I got when he arrived was literally ‘I’ve arrived’. He messaged about 11:30am their time today, again, very brief with ‘Yous alright?’ This is unlike even him.

He’s been online on WhatsApp a lot tonight yet not bothered to message. I don’t expect constant conversation flow but I think it just highlights where we are on the priorities. I’m feeling a mix of anxiety and anger and I’m just so fed up of what has become my life. This feels like the end in my head, like a tipping point almost.

Sorry, I just wanted to let it out somewhere 😞

I hope you managed to get some sleep. Don’t try and tackle this before you have had some rest. I’m sure you want to express the hurt he has caused but try to remember that he has used your emotions against you before. If you show him that anger/ pain/ despair he is likely to turn it around to justify why he ‘couldn’t go on like this’. He’ll want to do anything to turn it around so he’s not the bad guy and instead was driven to do it by his unreasonable wife.

Instead be calm, and pragmatic about the damage he has done. Be clear to him what a huge deal this is but don’t let him have access to your emotions right now. He doesn’t deserve it and he cannot be trusted with them.

I have a husband with a similar mentality ‘that he deserves a social life’ and claims he doesn’t hold me back from having one. The difference being I am reasonable about my expectations. What I find useful for him to understand where I’m coming from is to turn the situation around. Ask your husband to imagine you had booked a girls holiday without properly discussing it and prioritising it over a family holiday, leaving him alone to look after the kids. And then go point by point through his actions but imagining he was you and ask him how he would have felt, and how that would impact his view of you as a person, a wife and a mother. Ask him whether he could forgive you in that scenario and how that would actually work. Often they are so deep in justifying their actions to themselves and lying to protect themselves from the consequences of their actions they never actually put themselves in your position.

if you really want to get to the bottom of what happened I wouldn’t push. I would say ‘I have to accept I will never know the truth of the situation, all I know for sure is that you are a liar. It’s hard to forgive when I don’t truly know in my heart what I am forgiving’. Then leave it there. Hopefully to change your perception of him as a liar he will be brutally honest and do what he can to prove his version true. But you know that even if he isn’t truthful what he has admitted to already is bad enough to end your marriage if that’s what you choose. It’s not ‘just one kiss’. It’s his selfishness, lying, disrespect, and betrayal.

@OchreRaven couldn’t agree more.

A really common thing is to get emotional/shouty and want to take it out on them. They then use it to become the victim. Don’t do that. You have the moral high ground. You’ve not done these things. Keep cool, calm, collected and mature. Be the adult. Think how people in authority (e.g. teachers) have to act regardless of the provocation and channel that: calm, reasonable, firm.

And some men struggle with empathy and sexism. So, asking them how they’d feel if it was the other way around can be helpful.

Sending you 💐 and good wishes, OP. I’m sorry you’re having to pick up this mess. You sound extremely strong, although you no doubt will not always feel that way but I hope you hold fast that you are and will be ok after this.

Hold this thought- every one of his mates at that stag do and those who will be at the wedding will know what he's done - and probably know more than you. This is the kind of mate they accept. And when he goes out with them in the future, they will not be surprised, or make a fuss when he does it again. And they will know when they see you together, what he did and what you forgave (that you knew about). This message is nauseating and to be honest, I think I'd end it just from his attitude here. It also suggests it was far far more than 'she kissed me'.

Insist he gets an STI test - his reaction will be telling.

This might be helpful about trauma bonding - because cheating is abuse. https://www.sandstonecare.com/blog/trauma-bonding/

Sending you strength today. Hope you got some sleep. 💕

Trust your gut feeling on this, mine has never ever been wrong. If you feel like more than a kiss happened, you are probably right. The way he was being so aggressive to you and putting it all on you, I'd be feeling like he'd done something wrong and had guilt and was projecting and on the defense.

Could they have been taking drugs as well, I know lots of guys who go to Benidorm and get on cocaine and it can make people aggressive. Then when sobriety has set in the severity of what he's done has hit him and he's ran home with his tail between his legs. I hope you get the answers you need and sorry you are in this situation. Hopefully the woman will reply to your message with the truth when she's home.

@TicTac80 so sorry to read what you went through. My exh cheated too stayed with OW only a few months also. It was like the rug pulled from under my life.

OP sorry you are going through this, its so devastating. You have to do what you feel is right for you and take your time. Similar to TicTac I have known someone who cheated on his wife and spent the rest of his life making it up to her. They were a happy, very together couple.

I think it depends on his reaction. If he is defensive, angry, trying to justify his actions etc then that’s hopeless. He needs to be honest, respectful, answer your questions, give you space and he should be utterly and totally devastated by what he has done to you and willing to do anything and everything to make it up to you and show you that he is worthy of being your husband.

@Channellingsophistication, six years ago it was like a bloody train wreck!! Honestly though, he was on a definite final chance to work on things and he shat all over that. The OW coming out of the woodwork broke my heart but also made things extremely clear that he wasn't prepared to lift a finger to remedy any of the issues. I was also probably trauma bonded and willing to try anything but the infidelity made me sit up straight. So they both did me a favour. I'm honestly fine now. And every time I read threads like this, I thank everything that I'm not still in that marriage. That's not to say that I automatically think "LTB" every time I read stuff, but I will say to anyone in a difficult relationship to make sure they get the info they need, take stock of the situation and quietly have ducks in row etc to be able to make an informed decision about things. It was easy for me to not go back to him and file for divorce (logistically): I was working FT, I was the breadwinner, the house was rented and it was in my sole name, I could afford all bills on my own (again, all in my own name). I didn't/couldn't rely on him (financially or as a reliable co-parent) and was able to negotiate FT hours that corresponded with childcare hours. Had I been, e.g. an SAHM and reliant on his salary, I can imagine that things would have been bloody difficult.

Talking of friends knowing, it was XH's best mate who had found out about OW and called him out on his behaviour. Apparently, it had been going on for over 3 months. He wouldn't cover for XH. The best mate gave XH a short time to tell me about OW or he'd say something (as he was disgusted at how XH was behaving). That time passed and XH said nothing, so his best mate then sat me down and told me everything he knew, and cut XH off. XH's and my mutual friends also cut XH off when they found out. I didn't ask them to, they just did it. Cheating on spouses isn't something they agree with....and using excuses like "wife doesn't understand me", or "I was pissed/high" doesn't cut it with them.

Sending a huge hug to you x
From what you've said your manager already knows your husbands downfalls in the workplace.
Don't worry if you feel yourself getting upset these are the first steps to finding your people , so if your supported in work you will feel stronger at home to make the decisions you need to make make.

You must start to make plans to get everything in order.Another poster on here said play the long game if you need too I agree with that.

The name calling stops today it's abuse tell him to never call you names like that again.

You can do this it's so scary in the beginning just think tiny steps clear your head of his emotional crap he puts on you think about your finances remeber he will have to pay child support think what you can afford write it all down keep it away from his eyes be brave you can do this.

You will find you and you will find your people new interests & hobbies.
You've outgrown your husband his behaviour is a disgrace.
Lean on people you feel you can trust .
You got this girly big hugs x

Ironically, the cheating is the most trivial aspect of the dysfunction in this relationship. The OP should certainly reflect on that in her next relationship, I think.

OP I hope you're OK. Don't take him back. It's not only about the infidelity, there's so much you've mentioned in the course of this thread about him being disrespectful, useless as a father, grinding you down.

As you said, it's always much harder to see the problems in your own relationship than in others'. You came from a difficult place and thought you could move beyond it with this man, but the past has a way of catching up with you. You deserve better than this.

That is illegal though.
You can't lock someone out of their own house.

I just wanted to say OP, that I'm going through getting a diagnosis for ADHD for the things which I struggle with. However, I'm a single parent and do my best to make sure the important things are sorted. Even though I struggle to keep the house up to a decent standard, I still can SEE what needs doing and am aware of it and try my hardest to get past executive function difficulties to keep everything good for me and my little one. İt takes me longer than most, but if a room gets into a mess, I'll still use as much of the next day as possible to get it back into order. So please don't let him use possible ADHD as an excuse. There are apps, therapists, Aİ bots, phone reminders and diaries which can help with all these things. Just remember, he can organise a lads holiday, meeting up with someone, and last minute flights home- no problem!

I hope you got some sleep, OP. This must be so hard for you!

His insistence on being in charge of the finances keeps niggling away at me. Do ask him for a full financial disclosure - I think there may be another shock waiting there.

⬆️⬆️ this.

@thelab I get that what happened this weekend is at the forefront of your mind. It would be the case for anyone.
But don’t forget the background stuff.

I mean, I wouldn’t be surprised if said mates were doing the same. Often, you are the company you keep.

The majority of DP’s friends are married but also in on the idea of escorts and strip clubs at the weekend away. I threatened to tell all the wives, which didn’t go down well. Apparently DP couldn’t live with himself if he was responsible for the breakdown of his friends marriages.

separate, get your finances set up, work hard to be independent of his contributions as while you should expect and demand his fair support payment plus half of costs for sports and clothes etc, he’s pretty likely to lose his job at some point since he is pretty clearly a pathetic loser there too. Luckily, you will be long gone at that point so you can just say oh dear, of course it was always going to happen.

Wonder what the replies were from his so called friends after his txt say he was heading home?? After all they stick together don't they,
He wouldn't of known op has a day off today poor him day ruined thinking he could sleep off his crazy weekend while plotting of what to say before op gets home,
Well op you stay strong, stay calm, let him sweat , and see what shit he comes out with, I would check the friend group chat too, will be very interesting read , he won't think to delete that

It stands out to me that you didn’t just roll over and accept his decision to book himself on the stag do without considering you. In response, he spent the week leading up to it acting poorly, creating tension between you both, and leaving things unresolved—likely because you didn’t give your blessing for him to go. His way of punishing you was to cheat, whether openly so you would find out or secretly just to have the upper hand.

This is a serious red flag. It shows that when you stand up to him and he doesn’t get his way, he retaliates in a spiteful and deeply damaging manner. Yes, he may apologise now, but what happens the next time he does something selfish and you don’t agree?

For your relationship to work, the biggest shift that needs to happen is his understanding that he is part of a team. It’s not about you “not letting him do what he wants”; it’s about him recognising how his actions impact you and your family. That’s a significant mindset shift from where he is now.

I would be demanding full access to his phone - it's likely if this is a pattern that he has done this or similarly destructive behaviour before. If you'd not found that girls phone number you can guarantee you would never have found out about this.

Thank you so much everyone for your kind words. Some of you have sent lovely long messages, sharing your own experiences too. I’m not really functioning at the moment as my head is spinning, but just to acknowledge them and thank you. I’m sorry you’ve all had to go through similar experiences too, it’s really bloody awful. It is heartening to hear how you’ve now rebuilt though.

I’ve had a small bit of sleep. The story from him is they went to a bar and these girls arrived. They started talking and at some point she ended up with his phone and putting her number in, then sending a message to herself so she had his. Most of his friends left to go inside at this point, leaving him outside still with one friend. I don’t take away any of his guilt at all, but I just also cannot, as 2 of them have children, see how any of them just stood by and let him get into this position, knowing he has a wife and children at home. None of them have messaged him since he left either.

Anyway, he says he was so drunk he can’t remember what encouragement or how it got to this point. They then went off to a takeaway together and she apparently kissed him for a few seconds but he didn’t stop her. Again, he can’t tell me what got to this point other than saying, it just have been some sort of banter gone too far. She then got in a taxi and left and he went and got himself another beer! I told him you don’t go off for a takeaway, something you do at the end of the night, without it being the intention of ‘something’ following this, e.g. back to the hotel. I also told him it’s telling how his priority was to get another beer rather than think of me and contact me to own up.

He exchanged messages with her all the next day. Apparently there weren’t that many but they’re deleted and he can’t remember what was said. He thinks the gist was her messaging first to ask if he was hungover, then brief chit chat about the rugby, if they were going out to watch it/where etc. This is the bit that hurts the most. If you’re so ashamed and sorry, it’s just so evil to then carry on messaging them, when it should have been me to own up. I’ve told him I have no doubt that had I not contacted him and we spoke on the phone, forcing myself back into his mind, he would have met up with her Saturday night and god knows what else.

I’ve also told him that it’s bad enough what he’s done, but to continue to message that person the next day, call me such abusive names knowing what he’d done and then to drag it out, lying and story changing so many times, is another level of evil.

He is adamant he only saw her on the Friday night and it was just a kiss. He said he swears for the children’s sake that is all. He told me she messaged him on the Sunday morning, a screenshot of the message I sent her, saying, I’ve received this strange message, are you saying you’re the MrTheLab who’s married with 2 children. He told me he didn’t reply and only at this point thought to delete and block her.

I’ve been through his group chat and there wasn’t any response at all. I think some of them are angry at him because I told the most ‘loud’ partner and just told her to be wary that they could have done the same. He then sent him a shirty message telling H to ‘sort it out’ so I’d assume he’s had some grief.

My head is spinning and I need to take some time to come to terms with what’s happened and the gravity of my whole life changing before I even knew. I know I can never trust him again. He’s saying everything he wants now - he’s had a massive wake up call, he has an unhealthy attitude to drinking, we’re what matters and he’ll do anything to prove it and be a better person. The problem is, when someone has lied to you so many times, you can’t believe them anymore.

No. It’s too late. Once the trust has gone, the relationship is effectively over. People limp along for a few years sometimes but why the fuck should you? 💐

What messaging app did they use as you might be able to retrieve the messages?

Gosh, DH is suffering a severe case of selective amnesia the poor mite.

It must be so hard being such an absolute stud that you can have unmemorable conversations with a lady, and yet she’s throwing herself at him.

Where was his wedding ring in all this? (If he has one).

I’m so sorry that you’re experiencing this OP. I would say try not to let these events and his BS cloud your judgement. You’ve said somethings been off before this trip. I can only presume it’s because this isn’t the first time he’s had females throwing themselves at him and taking over his phone to ensure he has their number.

Exactly OP, maybe that is was happened, maybe it isn’t. But you will never know because the trust is gone. By his own admission he went off with her alone and they kissed. He didn’t feel guilty enough about it the next day when sober to delete her number. No instead he continued to talk to her and potentially arrange to meet up with her. Does that sound like someone who felt bad and had never done anything like this before? I would be questioning all his other trips now. And the problem is you will doubt everything from now on. You know in your gut whether what he says makes sense and sounds genuine or whether he is giving you the bare bones to get out of it.

I always thought the reason he confessed is because she sent him your message and he freaked out that she may tell you so he wanted to get ahead of it and downplay it ‘she kissed me’ etc.

Have you asked him to retrieve his WhatsApp messages? You can Google how to do it depending on whether he has android or iOS. You may even be able to do it from the iPad if you download it there. If he’s not willing to try and recover them then you know what was in those messages was further incriminating. A man that swears on his children but continues to lie is not a man you can move forward with. He needs to take accountability. He has allowed his words to mean nothing. Actions are the only way for him to prove himself and that is a long road. Is he really up to it?

He’s only told you any of this because he thought you had seen messages. Now he knows you haven’t he will admit as little as possible. I would check if she is blocked on his phone. I would message her again. If she really didn’t know he was married she might speak to you now she’s over the shock. Or unblock and message her from it his phone.

If you haven’t done it already, copy all financial papers, incase later down the line.
Ask to see his bank accounts every month.
Have him book a holiday of your choice which he said he was going to do, whether you want him along with the family is up to you, because he is spending on himself and not on the family.
Good luck.