Dress shamed on dates

[rubberduck68]

I am mid-fifties and OLD. I have been on the receiving end of a comments about how I dress, all implying that I am not dressed up enough. I like jeans, and trousers. I wear good quality ones, on trend (or so my daughter tells me!), good tops, nice jackets, I'm a trainers and Chelsea Boots fan, don't do heels. Own one smart black dress, wore it for a funeral two years ago, and have a couple of summer ones that I pull out when it's scorching. Last night went to Bills for dinner. Bills is low-key, it's a chain, we ate burgers, I wore good jeans, a vintage Bella Freud jumper, some boots, hair and make-up effort was applied. He said, "I thought we'd be dressing up." This has happened to me a fair bit since OLD, never happened when I was younger and dressed the same. Is it just men of this age who expect women to show up in high heels and skirts/dresses? We had a polite debate about it, and he asked me what I'd wear if he took me (I know, I know) to a wedding, and I replied that the last wedding I went to I wore a fitted waistcoat with nothing underneath, wide legged linen trousers, and lots of cool jewellery and got loads of compliments. He pulled a face. A face!! Anyone else dress shamed on dates? Is it their age? Am I out of touch with what to wear on dates? Brutal honesty welcome!

Actually, she did - if you read to the end of her first post she wrote: "Am I out of touch with what to wear on dates? Brutal honesty welcome!" Not only was I not brutal, but I told her there's nothing wrong with wearing jeans to somewhere like Bills, but (given that she's had negative feedback more than once) she could tweak her look a little and still feel comfortable

Fair enough I'm sorry, I should have referred back and re read the Op.

However i still don't think anyone should be changing their comfortable style on a first date, actually any date.

The op definitely isn't out of touch, she was dressed appropriately for the venu but men feel like they can critisze. How bloody rude of them.

I still think if you change to suit a man it's a receipe for disaster.

We, I think you sound insanely cool! I reckon your style is a bit above their heads! Someone who's right for you will appreciate your style, not question it. I think your wedding outfit sounds great.

Well OP I don't know what's going on with these men, but from your descriptions it sounds as though you have excellent dress sense!

So he was no more "dressed up" than you, OP! 🙄 Yeah, sorry about the "short, fat, bald men" characterisation, but this was my friend's experience - she's very attractive and I did wonder if these men "got their defence in first" because they realised they were punching above their weight (apparently, "negging" is a thing).

OP, it sounds to me like you looked amazing! You sound very stylish, so please don't think for one minute that this is about you.... it's very definitely a him issue. He's clearly still stuck in the last century!

I'm 54 and my boyfriend (we met OL) is 50. I can't imagine him ever saying anything like that, or ever not being anything other than complimentary about how I'm dressed. And he gets bonus points for absolutely loving my biker jacket. I do wear quite a lot of dresses, but with chunky boots or trainers. Occasionally chunky heeled ankle boots, which again he loves.

So they are most definitely out there, you just need to look really hard!

I've only read the op so far so my apologies for not reading tft but I can't help myself -
I CANNOT believe you still went on the date!!
How lucky that he showed you what a rude twat he was so early on.
I would have said
'Are you serious? I can't believe you've just said that - how rude. It goes without saying that I no longer want to go on this date. Or ever see you again. See you.'

Digressing from the OP, I saw “dress code” mentioned earlier in the thread and wondered where, in fact, would you expect to have a dress code imposed. I went straight to the website of The Ritz Hotel in London, and found this:
"The Ritz London has a dress code in different areas of the hotel as follows: Gentlemen are required to wear a jacket and tie (jeans and sportswear are not permitted for either ladies or gentlemen) for Afternoon Tea and for lunch and dinner in The Ritz Restaurant and Terrace. In all other areas of the hotel (The Ritz Restaurant breakfast service, The Rivoli Bar and The Long Gallery), smart casual attire is required. Please note that shorts, trainers and sportswear are not permitted in any of the hotel’s restaurants or bars."
All well and good for The Ritz, but I really don’t think Bill’s is the same level as that for a first date!
Good luck with your continued OLD, @rubberduck68 - it most definitely is a “them” problem. Is there no longer anything comparable to the Guardian Soulmates site? I hadn’t realised it had closed down till just now!

@rubberduck68 I didn’t mean that you had not made an effort, I’m sure you looked lovely. My point was that for some reason he didn’t perceive it as such. I would have ended the date then and there if there had been a comment. It is hard to say what the answer is.

I'm back again to say i still can't believe the audacity of these mem - the more I think about it, the more wild it is. If a man turned up in a ratty old tshirt and jogging bottoms to a date, I'd see it as a sign he wasn't for me as I like a man who makes an effort!) But I wouldn't SAY that to a stranger? Especially one i was hoping to date? Its so bizarre!
Also i will not buy into any 'well men are visual creatures and it's about what they find sexy' nonsense, that's irrelevant - why are they saying negative things to women about their dress sense unprompted! Plus if a man has so little imagination that he would be put off by not being able to suss out the shape of my legs through a pair of wide leg jeans, I know that's not the man for me. No depth, no imagination, no curiosity, no flexibility. Nah.

I'm 55 and always wear docs or trainers with jeans or trousers for a date. Never had anyone comment tbh. But then I go for indie type men, I wouldn't be attracted to the suit trouser type.

One did comment that I hardly wore any makeup as if that was odd. But followed it up by saying he liked that and I didn't need to.

Oh he sounds like a right Jerk, good riddance to him

Negging men sadly exist at all ages - I've come across them while OLD in my 20s and 30s. The most ludicrous was the man who really had a problem with my Fjällräven bag 😂

Obviously those men all had hidden bald patches, bad dress sense, etc - they're projecting their insecurities.

I'd put 'former post-punk' on my profile to get filter out the dross that can't deal. Don't change a thing about yourself.

I love the sound of your style! Don’t change.

People are odd, meeting complete strangers is always going to throw up plenty of weirdos.

Online dating can be a great tool for meeting people, but I think there's pretty much a "shopping list" mentality.

The guys who are always on there and most active/available often have some social fatal flaw. So you screen on first qualities as they look Ok - then you realise why someone else hasn't got there first.

Lot of them have unrealistic ideas/expectations of what they can expect from a date or partner....they're sitting with their "matches" who may be bots or scams or OnlyFans accounts.

Or they go on one meet with a younger woman in a red dress and heels, who lets them buy her a £££ dinner and then friend zones them, and think that's their "level" and why can't all women be like that.

If you meet someone organically and see them in their natural social environment, there's a higher chance you're naturally aligned and they have ok social skills.

Dressed up to go to fucking Bills. 🙄
In what, him in top hat and tails and you in a tiara and ballgown?

'And why didn't you arrive in a stretch limo?
It's Bills!? Not McDonald's. We are going to a Wimpy bar next week though and I expect you to wear at least a cocktail dress and a mink stole.'

Fucking wanker.

It's negging. Certainly not a 'generation' issue; your style has been stylish for 40 years, for god's sake! They're trying to put you in your place. Just ditch anyone who undermines you the first time they do it.

In your case, I suspect your style is actually very good and they feel a little threatened ... but, if you were a floaty dress type, they'd have something to say about hiding your figure and, if you wore heels, would be suggesting flats were more up to date.

You sound great OP, I'm of the same era, I like an alternative look and I fear if I was single I'd never find anyone on my wavelength. I think some blokes just assume being a bloke is enough to have women swooning over them. Stick to your style; i can't imagine wearing dresses and heels at all now!

Men in their 50's and 60's often seem to do this.
My mum is very attractive and dresses up a lot. People comment on how beautiful she is and how well she dresses. She is 69.

She has had dates comment on everything from her slightly crooked bottom teeth to her heels to her car etc
They tear her down on the first date, and it happens over and over again.
All these men were no prizes.

They are deeply insecure and usually misogynistic due to anger about their first wife.

They despise women who are financially stable or confident in themselves and secure in their looks/clothes because it holds up a mirror to their inadequate selves.

What a twat.

I do not own, and have never owned, a skirt or a pair of high heeled shoes. Or in fact any pair of shoes that is uncomfortable.

Good grief! Your clothes sound a lot smarter and more stylish than anything I ever wear! Nobody's ever commented on my clothes on a date, but I probably wouldn't pick anybody who was bothered about such things (it's certainly not something I'm bothered about except that someone looks clean and not too outlandish).

Personally I don't like men very much but have been married to a tailors son for thirty plus years. The only comment he'd make regarding my clothes is about the fabric or price if I'd been spendy.
Men who really like women can see through all clothes, you're not a shop window! These guys are just harping back to the 1980s.
They want to show a picture of their new woman to their mates and call her a cracker, dolly etc.
Obviously I don't old but my friends do and they can't be arsed.
I just had the misfortune to watch GB news and the female anchor had her cleavage out at 2pm. Very progressive.

Fwiw my twenty one year old hasn't worn a skirt since boarding school (she was expelled for wearing trousers and quoting the equality act). She wears a lot of 1970s design clothes and her jeans. No heels either. She's loves her music and thinks heels are akin to foot binding!

I think a lot of it stems from porn and wanting you to perform as a "woman" in your skirt and kitten heels. These idiots have very fixed ideas of what a woman is and how she acts and they want one of those dress up doll - submissive women.

I worry that the "midway point" is me changing myself to accommodate a man who I don't even know yet; surely that's a slippery slope...

This is so spot on.

When I first did OLD I always did my hair and nails but that's just not me, and the expectation was then there always to be whom I'm not.

I would now deliberately not do any more than I would to go out with my girl friends.

If they don't like me based on that, that's perfect, as I don't want them either.

One of the lovely things about dating in your 50s is that you know yourself more, value yourself more, and won't put up with any of the nonsense you did in your 20s/30s.

Transparent, disgusting arseholes showing you who they are, early on, luckily.

If you aren't the armcandy prize of youth, then they demand that you be perfectly primped and dressed and polished to hide the Terrible Age (ie. Any age over 20). This despite the fact that they may well be paunchy/a used car salesman/uneducated/halitosis bro/living in mummy's spare room after the divorce/ in middle management/insert any other drawback here. But nah, you better get your silk dress and best heels on, for such a prize of a guy to take you out for a grilled puck of meat in a bun!! 🫠

Fuck those insecure losers. Not literally, find a real, respectful and confident guy who sees your strengths to actually fuck...

I think there’s a lot of truth in this

Although I’m sure one of the forums regular mansplainers will be along soon to tell us ‘women do that as well’, it does seem there’s a higher number of attractive secure single middle aged women out there and I don’t think a lot of the men can deal with a confident woman with her shit together. They want a nurse with a purse to wipe their arse.

As has been said before oh to have the self confidence and entitlement of a mediocre middle aged white man