Dress shamed on dates

[rubberduck68]

I am mid-fifties and OLD. I have been on the receiving end of a comments about how I dress, all implying that I am not dressed up enough. I like jeans, and trousers. I wear good quality ones, on trend (or so my daughter tells me!), good tops, nice jackets, I'm a trainers and Chelsea Boots fan, don't do heels. Own one smart black dress, wore it for a funeral two years ago, and have a couple of summer ones that I pull out when it's scorching. Last night went to Bills for dinner. Bills is low-key, it's a chain, we ate burgers, I wore good jeans, a vintage Bella Freud jumper, some boots, hair and make-up effort was applied. He said, "I thought we'd be dressing up." This has happened to me a fair bit since OLD, never happened when I was younger and dressed the same. Is it just men of this age who expect women to show up in high heels and skirts/dresses? We had a polite debate about it, and he asked me what I'd wear if he took me (I know, I know) to a wedding, and I replied that the last wedding I went to I wore a fitted waistcoat with nothing underneath, wide legged linen trousers, and lots of cool jewellery and got loads of compliments. He pulled a face. A face!! Anyone else dress shamed on dates? Is it their age? Am I out of touch with what to wear on dates? Brutal honesty welcome!

*Maybe you need to...

Actually, she did - if you read to the end of her first post she wrote: "Am I out of touch with what to wear on dates? Brutal honesty welcome!" Not only was I not brutal, but I told her there's nothing wrong with wearing jeans to somewhere like Bills, but (given that she's had negative feedback more than once) she could tweak her look a little and still feel comfortable.

I just think men do generally tend to prefer women in a dress or skirt on a date as it looks more feminine and more of an effort made than jeans/trousers and boots. With heels or a kitten heel or flat sandals. But I think it was rude of him to comment on your outfit as you obviously had made an effort to look nice and I dont doubt at all that you looked nice. A decent man with manners would have not had a problem with your outfit and would’ve been interested in you and your personality.

Out of interest, what was he wearing?! Do you feel he made an effort?

Well I think it explains why he's single and still searching.

Your dress sense sounds very nice OP. Your outfit sounded perfectly fine for going out to Bills. The only problem seems to have been your date's lack of manners.

At least you found out he's a bit of a prat fairly early on.

They went to Bill’s…probably full of kids and teenagers. She was appropriately dressed for the venue.

Who wears kitten heels or sandals in winter? Anyway heels are dated even in summer. OP was perfectly dressed for the eatery, weather and occasion.

It is a social faux pas to be overdressed.

Her date sounds fuddy duddy and is clueless on so many levels. I say bin.

I think this is the issue in a nutshell: there is an expectation that women perform a sort of hyper-femininity. It isn't a universal expectation by any means, but it seems pretty common.

It is possible that it is getting worse. About 3 years ago I went back to dating after an 8 year dating gap. I found that my typical style of black skinny jeans, lots of eyeliner and various shirts / tops was almost universally disdained by the men I saw, whilst loads of men seemed happy with it 8 years earlier.

Then again, I was also 8 years older so perhaps I'm confusing a change in men's expectations with my personal aesthetic decline...

I don't watch my TV but I have an enduring, quite embarrassing addiction to The Apprentice. Obviously that is business, not dating, and everyone involved is hyper aware of being on TV, but I still think it's interesting how radically the styling of female candidates has changed over the years. The level of makeup, the glossiness of the hair and the impracticality of the clothes seemed to get more and more intense, peaking perhaps a few years back and now ever so slightly dipping (ie seems more ok for female candidates to wear bright trouser suits and waistcoats rather than skin tight dresses now, at least).

That is to say something of how the beauty standards of school girls seems to have accelerated since I was a kid...

My fear is that society is going backwards on gender equality and recognising women and girls as having more to them than a stereotypical feminine look. I hope you find men who aren't on that bandwagon.

I just think that's so rude and you sound lovely and don't deserve that. I know you said you had a pleasant debate and good on you for managing to do that. Perhaps I am too defensive as I'm pretty sure I would have been pretty coffended and then being quizzed about how I'd dress for a wedding would have finished me off and had me running for the door 😂 He sounds far too superficial. Hold out for better!!

I wear dresses but its a bit cold for them at the moment. I'd be in trousers on dates over winter too.

I didn’t say she wasn’t?

@RedPandaLove "Out of interest, what was he wearing?! Do you feel he made an effort?" Yeah, I want to know this too! 😂(From my friend's experience of OLD, it's usually the short, fat, bald men looking like bags of crap tied in the middle who are most vociferous in their "appraisal" of women! 🙄 )

If men are "more visual", why do so many of you dress so badly? Perhaps you should use your superior visual abilities to, I don't know, look in the mirror occasionally?

I don't own a biker jacket, I nicked my daughter's, but I do have military jackets, but I just wouldn't know how to select a "feminine" top. Not being snarky, I just wouldn't know what that is? I worry that it might be something low-cut that shows off the twins, which is just not me at all. Do love Chrissie Hynde's look but I think it's just my hair that is a bit like hers; wish I was as stylish as she is! Love the slow look up and down, might try that next time.

I think some men have a very set idea of how they want women to dress. Unfortunately, online dating doesn’t screen this type of man out prior to meeting.

You have dodged a bullet with this one.

You should wear what you ‘feel’ comfortable and happy in.I’m def a jeans and smart shirt/top
person but in summer would wear longer dresses -more like a line with pockets.I don’t dress up for anyone except myself to make myself feel good.Seems like you just haven’t met your type who also is happy in themselves and likes the jeans too.

The only comment anyone should make about another person's clothes is some variation on 'that's a nice thing' or 'you look great in that'. End of.

Lots of frogs in OLD.

I agree that its a filter for the dullards. You sound stylish and classy.

When I was young, I recall similar comments from the blokes around me as I swanned around in my post punk/new romantic blitz /club style often including vintage ball gowns, ripped t shirts and DMs. "Why can't you wear a nice dress/ pretty makeup/ look normal" they would whine, wearing their St Michaels jumpers that mummy bought them for Christmas. I would smile, finish my pint and head for the hills. DH is an ex-goth who used to have a mountain of blue/black hair and even more eyeliner than me. Our friends are mostly interesting, quirky and stylish though we look a lot more conventional these days. None of the women wear high heels, slinky frocks or fake nails ever.

Sounds to me that you just need to find someone in your own tribe. A man who recognises your style when he sees it. Similarly you probably want someone with shared interests- who is interesting and engaged with arts/politics etc. People like this probably also notice fashion and style more than others.

I am willing to bet this was also an issue when you were younger, but then everyone was single and you moved in large social groups of like minded people so it was not so obvious. Like then, the men you will like are a minority but they are out there.

You are doing nothing wrong. Ignore these boorish and boring men and just keep looking. Remind yourself that its lucky they reveal themselves so early in the game.

He was wearing a white linen shirt untucked, that was a bit tight across the big belly. That sounds bitchy I know, but in reference to "fat, bald" men, he was both, and had shown neither of these in his profile, which I have got used to now. The bald patch was huge and at the back. He was wearing tan trousers, I want to say chinos, but does anyone wear those still? His boots were black leather, normal with a zip up the back. His pictures online were all waist up wearing similar shirts. He had a nice face, and seemingly bad manners.

Totally agree this is a class thing, and also why you got better dates on Guardian Soul mates.

While my DH wouldn't have a clue about Bella Freud, he would spot that you were wearing quality clothing, had a personal sense of style and were interesting to talk to. And that you were appropriately dressed for a first date in Bill's. All of which he'd find more attractive than a full face of make-up and a sequinned top.

As a man, he also doesn't profess to understand women's fashion.

I think you need to filter your dates out more heavily.

You wound wonderful, very Paula Yates whose style I loved. Yes, I guess it is about fashion tribes.

When you say things like your jeans are on trend, it does make me wonder a little. I think there can be a difference between what might be considered on trend - barrel leg for example and what men think of as attractive.

Yeah very tiresome OP. I think you’re right it’s generational to ‘dress up’ to go on dates.

It’s a good way of weeding out but appreciate you would prefer to do that before. Maybe write in your profile you are a jeans and trainers person, formal dressers need not apply!

Sorry, I meant your daughter's jacket (if she's prepared to part with it again! 😂 ). No, definitely not low-cut - I've got quite a few "feminine" tops and none of them require me to "put the goods in the shop window" (as my dad used to say) - that would look awful at my age. I can't post a photo of the sort of thing I'm thinking of, but google "& Other Stories Women's Cascading Ruffle Blouse" to get an idea.

Sorry but if he was wearing a casual shirt and chinos and had said "I thought we were dressing up" to me, I would have been tempted to ask "so why didn't you then?".

Not keen on the boots with a zip up the back 😬