Moody husband woes

[Anon63695]

I can't do anything right lately. He told me that if I think he's in a bad mood I should ask and accept his answer as the truth because he's usually just tired from work. I have done this. He will say that he's not upset with me, then continue to behave in a grumpy / hostile / snappy manner... he says this is ok because he's not actually upset etc. and has told me that.

I tell him that I understand he may be moody for various reasons, but he is dragging me down, making me feel miserable with his behaviour. He is adamant that I'm being unfair because I am imagining his bad moods and he isn't really grumpy.

In my opinion he is turning into a grumpy old man before his time. I thought we could work through this but we did couples therapy for a bit and he just keeps telling me that the therapist pointed out that I didn't get a couple of the things he was telling me, never mind that he was told that he needs to work on not being rude to his family because he's tired.

Recently we had a family day out and I did everything he asked, I thought he looked miserable a few times so I asked him if he was enjoying himself and he said yes so I dropped it. I tried making general conversation several times through the day but got short responses. Later on he decided to ask me in a grumpy tone whether I'd had a good day, just when I was in bed and about to go to sleep. This led to a lengthy discussion / argument about how nothing I'd done was good enough to make him believe that I've been listening to him and actually care etc. Then I told him that I'd thought he looked miserable but did what he asked of me rather than assuming his mood, and he complained that me even thinking he was miserable was a problem and I shouldn't have even thought it. Apparently I need to retrain my thoughts so that I believe what he says about his mood regardless of his expression or behaviour, so I don't mistakenly think that he's in a bad mood.

We are both 40ish, with kids at junior school. I have a decent job but I can't afford the mortgage on my own, plus he would push for the house to be sold and split. I don't want to disrupt the kids and throw away everything we've built, but I'm at my limit with this misery. I also don't like the thought of them being with him up to half the time away from me, where I can't protect them from his misery.

Sometimes he's happy and fine, but anything can trigger the bad mood. I can understand that it must be annoying to be constantly told that you're grumpy, but I think if I was being told that then I'd try to work out why rather than insisting that my partner was imagining it.

Sorry it is long, I just wondered if anyone else has been in a similar situation and has any advice. Thanks.

OP that's the key though, from his point of view he IS being honest...he cannot see / experience any other reality that his own....he's been made to feel bad, by your not allowing him to remain the centre of everything, with all his needs and wants catered for. There'll be no lightbulb moment for him because this is his unshakeable personality based truth.

Did things get progressively worse from having children?

I think the only phrase you can use at the moment is "then I think it's better if we just separate."

Whatever he accuses you of, whether it's you being abusive or you not listening or his moods being down to you - "then I think it's better if we just separate." You're not accepting the blame, you are just commenting on the state of the relationship. It's a very hard thing for him to negate, your desire to separate, because if you are as bad as he thinks, or if you are as unhappy as you are telling him, it doesn't matter. Separation is the best thing. He can try to say 'no, we can be good again,' but the only reply is "I think it's best if we just separate." On repeat.

@theansweris42 thinking back on it, he did start getting more moody when the kids came along. That roughly coincided with him moving to a job requiring odd hours / night shifts, so I think that was also a contributing factor (he's at his worst when tired).

@Vroomfondleswaistcoat good idea. I said something along those lines yesterday, a few times. I need to keep reinforcing it. He replies with "I'm getting help like you wanted" etc. but he doesn't get that the continued arguing and moodiness contradicts him wanting to actually improve.

Please stop trying to rationalise with him, you're flogging a dead horse. You need to start distancing yourself from him and his crap. Honestly, one day in the future you will look back and say 'whyever did I care what that little pipsqueak said, all the years he was abusing me?' Honestly, he will diminish before your eyes when you see who he really is.

He does get it, he knows he's not seriously trying to change. He wants you to change your tune and apologise, tell him not to take time off if it's an issue, that you can work on on it, ideally for you to agree that yes, your behaviour is affecting him and you'll change.

You've probably have these thoughts and/or conversations about how you could change things to help... But nothing you do will ever be enough.

With ref to the work thing, either he can take time off without too much of an effect to his career or, he's saying it but won't take significant time off.

Mine was at his worst when tired. When I was the young lovely girlfriend I could pick up the slack, look after him etc.
But then with 2 little DC that was harder even though oh! how I tried. I turned myself inside out trying to keep his approval.
Until, as I say, the scales fell from my eyes....
*Edited for a typo

Whatever you do don’t fall into the trap of reasoning, rationalizing, or negotiating with him. He is incapable of doing so honestly and with your wellbeing or happiness in mind. That part of his personality is disordered.

Everything in his surroundings, history, and mind is twisted by his narcissistic force field. In order to escape blame/shame/failure he will do and say anything, repeat his abuse, self harm or harm others. That is what people like this do when they become frantic enough.

Sometimes we think “if I could only get them to agree to start (therapy, negotiation, childcare, whatever) then we can be on a better path” but all things are only tools to them—threats or bribes they can use to get compliance.

As all the previous posters have suggested stick with one simple statement “I think its best if we end things” and avoid letting him bargain or negotiate with you. Just ignore or deflect both promises (like I will go to therapy) or complaints (I did so much for you) these are just bribes or threats that are issued by him robotically to try to best you down.

I’m sorry to say this but this will never happen. You’ll see if you continue with the Lundy Bancroft book that these men hold the belief system that they are entitled to be abusive to women because it benefits them. They will never admit being wrong, unless it’s as a manipulation tool which they don’t actually believe. Your abuser is an absolute master of DARVO, which says to me that he will always be the victim and you will always been in the wrong. Always. He won’t be honest with a therapists. He will play the victim, if he even attends. Even when it’s pointed out to these types of men that their behaviour is abusive, they don’t care and they don’t change. In light of this, he is unlikely going to co-parent amicably. He will use contact arrangements to cause you stress. He might bad mouth you to the children since he’s such a victim. I would suggest that you read up on parallel parenting, grey rock him and only communicate via a court approved parenting app so that if he starts any nonsense once you’ve split, you’ll have a record of everything. It’s hard but you can do it and you will be so much better off than living with this arsehole. You’re doing great OP. Keep going with the book.

Hi OP hoping you're alright .

Hi, thanks for asking!

Yes I'm OK. My husband is still at home but he's been to the GP and getting some therapy. He's not so moody now so I think it is helping, so I'm biding my time to make a decent plan for separation, which hopefully won't be as explosive or difficult for the DC if we can talk reasonably.

He'd said some horrible things to me when I told him I wanted to split up a few weeks back, which he claims he didn't really mean and may be due to whatever mental health issue he has etc.

The trust is gone because I can't tell what to believe from him any more, and I told him that. He said he understands that but I don't think he really does.

Anything you say can and will be used against you. I wouldn’t be telling him anything going forward. I’d be quietly planning my exit. Let your lawyer explain that you’ve left him when you’re away and safe.

Agreed tell him nothing about your own thoughts.
Look after you and DC. He'll get worse again before long so keep planning.

Op, this sounds awful. He's sounds impossible. I'd definitely leave.

Just to add though all this manipulation etc is unlikely to be done deliberately or knowingly. He may have a personality disorder like bpd or even if he's a narcissist he doesn't necessarily know he's doing it. He probably genuinely thinks he is the victim and everyone is just mean. That's why if you say tell me what you want etc he gets more upset and insecure. Because from his point of view that's you not understanding him. He sounds very self-centred and ruminating on his own thoughts.

Just saying this as it may help your grey rocking, humouring for now etc to consider from that angle. Even unintentional abuse isn't ok and no one should have to put up with it.

I think you're right, it isn't deliberate and he probably does have some sort of mental health issue. And as you say, that doesn't make it ok.

If I thought he was doing it deliberately I'd have left a long time ago. Sometimes it seems like he just doesn't get how his point of view could be wrong even when repeatedly being given evidence of the opposite, or he dwells on things which most people would just let go and not bother them. Like he's somehow got things much worse than others when he really hasn't.

Hi OP, whilst I understand what Ilikepianos means and it's certainly got truth in it....it's a bit of a red herring because you will never ever know the (multiple, complex, fluctuating) reasons for his behaviour.
Even if he has a mental illness, it's not the whole reason.
Keep thinking. Sending support 💪

Also please consider the important distinction between him "not doing it deliberately" with him therefore being unaware and therefore open to persuasion/information/transformation.

You've tried that route.
If it's not changed anything by now, in my view that's evidence that he won't change.

I hope you're OK