Moody husband woes

[Anon63695]

I can't do anything right lately. He told me that if I think he's in a bad mood I should ask and accept his answer as the truth because he's usually just tired from work. I have done this. He will say that he's not upset with me, then continue to behave in a grumpy / hostile / snappy manner... he says this is ok because he's not actually upset etc. and has told me that.

I tell him that I understand he may be moody for various reasons, but he is dragging me down, making me feel miserable with his behaviour. He is adamant that I'm being unfair because I am imagining his bad moods and he isn't really grumpy.

In my opinion he is turning into a grumpy old man before his time. I thought we could work through this but we did couples therapy for a bit and he just keeps telling me that the therapist pointed out that I didn't get a couple of the things he was telling me, never mind that he was told that he needs to work on not being rude to his family because he's tired.

Recently we had a family day out and I did everything he asked, I thought he looked miserable a few times so I asked him if he was enjoying himself and he said yes so I dropped it. I tried making general conversation several times through the day but got short responses. Later on he decided to ask me in a grumpy tone whether I'd had a good day, just when I was in bed and about to go to sleep. This led to a lengthy discussion / argument about how nothing I'd done was good enough to make him believe that I've been listening to him and actually care etc. Then I told him that I'd thought he looked miserable but did what he asked of me rather than assuming his mood, and he complained that me even thinking he was miserable was a problem and I shouldn't have even thought it. Apparently I need to retrain my thoughts so that I believe what he says about his mood regardless of his expression or behaviour, so I don't mistakenly think that he's in a bad mood.

We are both 40ish, with kids at junior school. I have a decent job but I can't afford the mortgage on my own, plus he would push for the house to be sold and split. I don't want to disrupt the kids and throw away everything we've built, but I'm at my limit with this misery. I also don't like the thought of them being with him up to half the time away from me, where I can't protect them from his misery.

Sometimes he's happy and fine, but anything can trigger the bad mood. I can understand that it must be annoying to be constantly told that you're grumpy, but I think if I was being told that then I'd try to work out why rather than insisting that my partner was imagining it.

Sorry it is long, I just wondered if anyone else has been in a similar situation and has any advice. Thanks.

After hearing that he wants you to go to a therapist and control what goes on there, he doesn’t sound grumpy.
He sounds unhinged and a bit dangerous.
He is clearly moving towards threats now.
He is intimidating you and bullying you.

Either deluded or is aware that he's being manipulative or is unaware as such but if it just comes naturally it's wired into his personality and will never change.

My DC father was/is high earner and I've got debts and have holidays in the UK. My 2 are teens now (left when they were 3 and 4) and don't care about it. They're only glad that we're all not living with and coping with him.
Tbh my financial situation is precarious but that's waaaay better then living with my ex and watching my DC wilt

I've told him to stop threatening things to punish or upset me in past arguments and he says they're not threats as he's actually going to do them. Then he hasn't followed through as he's calmed down, but if I point out later that this is essentially him lying to me / they are definitely threats, he says it's not that because he meant it at the time but he's just changed his mind after reflecting on it.

He has said that he's going to commit suicide a few times in arguments, which is very upsetting, but I got to the point last time where I said I'm not going to feel guilty if you do it and I'm not going to let you use that against me.

There is a lot going on for you. He is clearly having some sort of crisis where he is trying to ramp up control.
There is nothing left here to fix in my opinion. Your options are all about how to leave safely. There is excellent advice on here, and if you reach out the wisdom of mumsnet will support you.
I'm a teacher please don't make serious compromises about your life and your children's based on them staying in the school's they are in. School isn't that important and we try really hard to help children who have experienced dreadful home situations, but it's so much easier if it's past trauma, we help rebuild. If it's ongoing the children can't heal. This principle applies to you as well.
The housing issue is of course real and serious but making the decision now to get out means everything else is logistics and less hard than the juggling with emotional abuse and lack of sleep as you are now.

I really know it's easier said than done but try not to engage in the word play madness.

That convo you described is such a good example of the manipulation. He's not having an honest conversation he's just making you in the wrong wrong wrong even when it defies logic.

It doesn't whether he understands (or pretends to) about definitions such as something being a threat or not if what he meant when he said it....he's playing a game with no rules except his own capricious desired outcome. Try to not participate without telling him you're not participating.

Sorry about typos.
Observe him and the situation.
I think the scales are falling from your eyes.

Yes, I just need to find a way to keep the peace until I can get legal advice so I can protect mine and the childrens' interests as best possible.

He has said in previous arguments that he would hide assets or give them away to prevent me getting any of it. He's got a bit more in savings and pensions than I have. We jointly own the house.

My husband was a bit like this after DC2 was born. However at least he did say it was because he was tired and felt off. It turned out he had bad hay-fever and things improved quite a bit after meds and when babies sleep got better.

In this case you OH isnt offering an explanation. He's basically gaslighting you. Even, sorry I didn't realise that's how I'm coming across. I'll try x, would be better.

I'd pick a good time for a conversation. If there isnt one then email. Explain what he's doing ie grumpy response yesterday when I asked if you wanted us to go to the park etc.. I feel like y. I am concerned that you may be depressed and need help. I'm also concerned how it is for the kids thinking this is a normal way to talk to their parent. I need you to tell me how you feel so we can help.

OP

re your comment
"He has said that he's going to commit suicide a few times in arguments, which is very upsetting, but I got to the point last time where I said I'm not going to feel guilty if you do it and I'm not going to let you use that against me".

Well done for responding as you did. Threatening suicide repeatedly is another tactic so beloved of abusers to keep their target ie you in line. If he does this again call the police.

Channel your energies further and now into leaving him. Like so many abusers he is escalating his power and control. Quite apart from that
your children's house is no longer their place of sanctuary; it is a war zone with their dad conducting his own private based war against you.

Now I've just seen your latest post. He sounds awful, like actually vindictive. You need to save money and look after yourself. You can still send an email saying your doing it because you don't think you can talk to him. Choose your words carefully.

No to emailing him. Saving money too takes time and that is something the OP does not have the luxury of.

Best thing to do now is to further plan your exit using both Womens Aid and a Solicitor.

Agree don't email OP

He's not going to change . Doesn't want to.
You'll never save enough to compensate for living on one income.
Plan for financial changes. He'll pay maintenance and you build back up.

No I wouldn't email, he would just pick it apart or ignore it anyway.

He's blocked me on WhatsApp because I said that I don't want to argue via message when at work.

I am new to your thread and just want to offer some support OP. Your husband sounds so cruel and I am sorry you are enduring this.

This stage is very difficult, trying to foresee how things will go and how you will cope if you leave or get him to leave. And worrying about how the kids will cope. It is so difficult. Don’t give up though, You can get through it, and when you do, better times are coming. For you and for your kids.

The current situation is unbearable.That is the core truth. It cannot continue like this.

Good point. Fortunately I've got a bit of savings... if he left and paid maintenance we could survive where we are, just wouldn't have money for luxuries like we do now. Then maybe I could look to sell and downsize once some more equity has built up.

I don't think he will leave and keep paying though. I get the feeling he'd either refuse to go, or refuse to pay because why should I get to keep the nice house.

Many abusers do refuse to leave. I would urge you to seek legal advice asap re all aspects of separation and divorce as knowledge here is power.

OP

re your comment
"I get the feeling he'd either refuse to go, or refuse to pay because why should I get to keep the nice house".

Again this is a typical abuser mindset where he wants to "punish" you for having the utter gall to leave him. In his head he really does think he is the perfect specimen who has done nothing wrong by you. Make no mistake however, these types of men hate women, ALL of them. Please also reach out to Womens Aid.

Attila is right as always.

Get some legal advice about the house and possible options.

Thanks, I will contact Women's Aid.

It's not easy OP. But you can gather information and process the situation at the same time. You're doing great.

Severe personality disorder such as Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder-look it up—might fit this person. As well as Narcissitic Personality Disorder. Its not an excuse but to say that such people can not be worked with or teamed with in an honest and compassionate way. They are utterly fixated on being right and getting justice or exacting revenge. They can no tolerate your freedom from their control. And yet they need to keep you in their orbit. So they will fight tooth and nail both to hurt you and to keep you.

Prepare for a high conflict divorce. That is the term of art for what is about to happen. Look online, as others have suggested, at resources for dealing with narcissistic abuse and narcissistic abusers. This will help you think of how to manage the divorce.

He will not cooperate in any way. Choose a very good solicitor and make sure they understand the kind of man he is because that will influence their strategy. He will ramp up the abuse and threats as you try to leave so definitely work with women’s groups to get out safely.

He often refers to wanting factual evidence of things and not subjective. If he thinks something is subjective (like my opinion) then he will disregard it. I.e. it's a fact that I don't believe him about his moods, but my opinion on his behaviour or perception of his bad mood is subjective.

I don't agree. What your talking about is a specific type of behaviour. There's a difference between feeling down, and mistreating others as a way of cheering oneself up. THAT is what's abusive.

This is just a tactic he uses to justify ignoring whatever you're saying. It's rubbish.

Don't get sucked into the whole question of who's "right" and who's "wrong" here. It's the wrong question. He obviously wants to be the one who's always right, which is why he keeps talking about facts. It's a way of brushing aside any discussion of feelings.

But your feelings are 100% valid and important. If he's making you feel like shit - which he is - then you cannot be "wrong" for wanting out of the relationship.