Moody husband woes

[Anon63695]

I can't do anything right lately. He told me that if I think he's in a bad mood I should ask and accept his answer as the truth because he's usually just tired from work. I have done this. He will say that he's not upset with me, then continue to behave in a grumpy / hostile / snappy manner... he says this is ok because he's not actually upset etc. and has told me that.

I tell him that I understand he may be moody for various reasons, but he is dragging me down, making me feel miserable with his behaviour. He is adamant that I'm being unfair because I am imagining his bad moods and he isn't really grumpy.

In my opinion he is turning into a grumpy old man before his time. I thought we could work through this but we did couples therapy for a bit and he just keeps telling me that the therapist pointed out that I didn't get a couple of the things he was telling me, never mind that he was told that he needs to work on not being rude to his family because he's tired.

Recently we had a family day out and I did everything he asked, I thought he looked miserable a few times so I asked him if he was enjoying himself and he said yes so I dropped it. I tried making general conversation several times through the day but got short responses. Later on he decided to ask me in a grumpy tone whether I'd had a good day, just when I was in bed and about to go to sleep. This led to a lengthy discussion / argument about how nothing I'd done was good enough to make him believe that I've been listening to him and actually care etc. Then I told him that I'd thought he looked miserable but did what he asked of me rather than assuming his mood, and he complained that me even thinking he was miserable was a problem and I shouldn't have even thought it. Apparently I need to retrain my thoughts so that I believe what he says about his mood regardless of his expression or behaviour, so I don't mistakenly think that he's in a bad mood.

We are both 40ish, with kids at junior school. I have a decent job but I can't afford the mortgage on my own, plus he would push for the house to be sold and split. I don't want to disrupt the kids and throw away everything we've built, but I'm at my limit with this misery. I also don't like the thought of them being with him up to half the time away from me, where I can't protect them from his misery.

Sometimes he's happy and fine, but anything can trigger the bad mood. I can understand that it must be annoying to be constantly told that you're grumpy, but I think if I was being told that then I'd try to work out why rather than insisting that my partner was imagining it.

Sorry it is long, I just wondered if anyone else has been in a similar situation and has any advice. Thanks.

I feel for you so much OP, because my DH is the same.
After years of this, the only thing that has helped is therapy. And that in itself is a struggle, because they will never admit the problem is theirs.

Sending you much luck x

The generalised moodiness in your descriptions of your husband is aggression and control, pure, undiluted and egotistical. He’s not sharing feelings in a constructive way in order to make your relationship better by sharing them or to ask you for help or turn a new leaf, he’s trying to summon up feelings in you that make you feel worse. less appreciated and inferior to him. No different to a predatory animal growling - all other animals in the area immediately ask themselves how they can make themselves smaller and less likely to be lunch.

He just ranted at me for at least half an hour while I was trying to relax watching TV. The gist of it being that I don't believe him etc. All the same stuff.

I said I'm not doing this now, I'm trying to relax, stopped engaging, but he kept on talking at me. I put the subtitles on and tried to ignore him, but heard bits of it and he was telling me that I'm a liar because I said that discussion should be earlier in the evening but stopped listening, and that he can find a way to disappear so i can never find him if that's what I want!!

At the end of the programme I was watching I said something along the lines of "FFS, tell me what you want and I'll just do it, I can't take this any more". To which he said "just believe me". I said fine I'll do that, can you just stop now please?". Then he said that I've got lots of trust to rebuild and he can't see it happening, so basically there's nothing I can even try to do for a quiet life.

Now I'm crying in the bathroom (only place I can get away from him) and I've concluded that I've been an idiot for getting myself stuck with such a selfish d*ck in the first place. Somehow I couldn't see that he would turn out like this at the start and I built my life with him, now it's all going to go to crap and the children will suffer. I can't even afford a smaller house in this area on my own and I don't want them to have to move schools on top of dealing with family breakup and having a nasty father who keeps having a dig at their mum.

Sorry, I just needed to get it out somewhere.

I don't think he's trying to do it, he just does it naturally. He's got it in his head that I'm wrong and nothing will change his mind about that. He is certain that I'm at fault because I won't believe everything he says about his mood and he isn't grumpy. At this point he couldn't care less about how I feel because he perceives that I've been awful to him.

Hang in there

You're not on your own. I have been reading through the posts and there's a lot of wisdom on here.

ETA:read the most recent posts and I just want to say forget my suggestions: run, don’t walk, away from this man. A better life awaits you and the children the farther you get from him.

Have a look (as well as Lundy Bancroft’s book) at Lindsay Gibson’s books on emotionally immature people. You may also find your husband there. Another framework to use is to look into covert narcissism. Its basically a whiny, mopey, martyring kind of solipsism. He can’t tolerate you having unalloyed pleasure, snd he uses his moping to destroy that.

You can tey various techniques to undercut or defuse him

1. no discussions of mood or experience at all other than pleasure. If he comes out with you you will assume enjoyment. You aren’t hosting him or cruise directing him. You won’t check in on him. He will be assumed to be fine whether he comes with or stays behind. Don’t ask him if he is having a good time. If he asks you just say “yes, I enjoyed myself” Don’t let him think that he has the ability to ruin a day for you.

2. No discussions of mood before bedtime. No arguments or unkind words. Make the boundary and keep it by moving bedrooms snd telling him “I notice you do better on your own after 9 (or whatever) so I will leave you to it.”

3. Grumpy statements? Ignore them. Sct like they are said at a level you can’t hear. Kind/happy/compassionate statements? Note them and engage with them.

Expect an extinction burst which is what happens when a behavior that he has always used to get something stops working. He us used to getting you to worry snd focus on him by being a moody jerk. For a while he will ramp up the same behavior because it has always worked before. If you stay chill snd focused and don’t give in he must alter the behavior to get your focus back.

Those are my best problem solving tips. However:

I, personally, would leave. Like other PP I doubt if he is interested in changing.

Ok yeah, this has tipped quite firmly into abuse territory.

Very gaslighting and frankly awful.

your updates are so upsetting, it’s not just moodiness he is being emotionally manipulative and a bully.

talk to someone and figure out how to get away from him. Don’t give him a headsup OP or rock the boat in the meantime as he seems like he will make life very difficult for you.

you do have to get away from him though.

He is a bully and a nasty piece of crap- you and your DC’s must feel emotionally exhausted from his nonsense- this is abuse.
Do you have a spare room you can move into for now so that you can disengage from his nonsense. What on earth is he talking about in relation to trust!! He is a self absorbed, self righteous prick!

Legal advice is imperative also see what benefits you could get.

I don’t believe there is anything more now than to say -‘thats it, you have got what you wanted lets separate’

Oh, dear, my exh would insist I tell him what is wrong, when he would upset me, and if I tell him, he would proceed to say that I was wrong to feel that way, that it is not so, attack me for “always” finding faults with him... you get the idea. It was exhausting. He would tell me I should not expect him to change his behavior, that I should love him just the way he is. He was also very grumpy and moody and would give me silent treatments. If he did not like something I did or was going to do he would either not come, to show his disapproval, or come but be moody which in turn would make me walk on the eggshells to avoid making it worse. Problem with this behaviour is that it does not look like abuse, so I kept this for myself for years and felt bad for feeling bad, basicaly. It was not until I finally got into therapy that I learned that this is indeed a form of abuse.

I survived 25 years of this hell but could not take it any longer. I am very sorry OP, I do not have a constructive and positive advice, I am afraid. If the situation is so bad that you came to MN to talk about, I would say you are at the end of your tether. Things will not improve but will most likely get worse. It is up to you to decided if this is how you want to spend the rest of your life.

I’m surprised you don’t explode. How about next time you say THANK GOD I KNEW YOU WERE MOODY AND I JUST TRIED TO IGNORE IT BUT IT IS UTTER BULLSHIT THAT IM IMAGINING YOURE MOODY. you’re a grumpy angry old man and extremely hard to live with when you also totally gaslight me that it’s in my head. It’s not. You need to change, and I won’t accept your bullshit I’m imagining it anymore. You had a bad day because you always have a fucking bad day and I’m starting to think my only choice is to remove myself from your bad days so you can be grumpy without me.

Oh I’ve just read the updates. Bite the bullet op and fuck him off out of your life. The kids will get older and choose.

When you get away, you will breathe a huge sigh of relief that will make the stress over what you have to do to get away forgettable. You'll be annoyed that it took you so long though.

The fact that he is naturally a controlling, aggressive bully - and not intentionally so - doesn’t make your situation any better or easier to live with.

That said, I think he could control it if he wanted to. He doesn’t need to dramatise your late evenings in an abusive way, but he does so anyway.

Am sure he doesn’t behave like this with other people in his life at work / his parents / his extended family?

Unless you are saying … all this moodiness, aggression and power play is who he is, through and through?

Best of luck. Am sorry you are left to fend for yourself against someone so unfriendly and unkind. This is not how relationships should be.

Don’t make the mistake of thinking thst he is sincere in his thoughts or actions. He doesn’t “really” believe anything. His arguments are all just meant to humiliate and suffocate you. Recognize that this is he goal.

How many children do you have and what are their ages?
My thoughts are is that your ‘D’H sounds horrible. Lots for you to consider as you make your plans but I don’t think your future if you leave can be as bad as your present if you stay!

You know you deserve better, right?

Life after divorce is a cakewalk in comparison to being trapped in a bad marriage.

Do not let “fear of an unknown future” hold you down.

See a solicitor.
Make a plan.
Visualise the future you want and start walking towards it.

He is putting stress and blame on you which is very unfair. He expects you to be a sponge for his bad moods and absorb his frustrations when you have a lot on your plate. He should be coming to bed trying to relax, not start an argument. Would your DH be able to join a hobby group or see some friends sometimes to unwind so he doesn’t just rely on you? I think you also need a break from him. He sounds intense and it sounds like too much pressure is building up.

Thanks everyone. I went to bed last night and he kept talking at me, I said I'm not doing this, I'm tired, then I put on my earphones with some calming music to go to sleep. He was still talking at me but I could barely hear it, then he dropped his voice and carried on and I caught bits of it... one of them being that he was withdrawing all financial support (we pay half each on all the household bills and other family expenses so this would screw us all over) and something about me having set my own trap. I didn't react and went to sleep.

He is adamant that I need to get therapy to discuss my problem with not believing him, and he wants me to ask the therapist to confirm to him what we've discussed as he thinks I'll just lie to them to twist their opinion to match mine. I said what will he do if they tell me he's being ridiculous and abusive with this behaviour, and he just kept saying the above.

Tbh I think it would help me to talk this all through with a therapist, but not for the reasons he's stated. I'll be getting the legal advice etc. in the meantime. And I'm not going to pretend to family and friends that he's not being a shit any more.

God he sounds absolutely awful. Keep going. Once you see all this you can't unsee it but don't let fear of the future keep you there. A future with him sounds unbearable.

I'd just try and stay as visibly calm as possible while you put plans in place though to avoid an escalation from him that you don't need.

OP I'm confused now about what he wants you to believe, why he says you should deny the evidence of your own senses and what changes he says he wants you to make to yourself so that he feels better...except then again he doesn't need to feel better does he, because he's OK and just seems down/grumpy. So your thoughts must be racing trying to unravel it.

It's bullshit and circular arguing to keep you off balance. What he wants is to bully you and DC with his moods, never be held to account and need to cheer up/step up. His experience is the ONLY one that matters.

The escalation (threats of divorce, of withdrawal of financial contribution to his household and children) and the talking talking are being employed to grind you down to being quiet, acquiescent and serving his needs at all times.

Your posts about him not realising, working and being tired show that you're a caring person and want to believe (a) he's a good person really and (b) that things can get better. Sadly and I say again ...his experience is the ONLY one that matters. This may be due to his upbringing/trauma/whatever but it's fixed. And he's totally committed to his own comfort and it being underwritten by you.

Being talked at with threats, bullied with moods, micro aggressions, overt unwarranted criticism, sleep deprivation, emotional manipulation, fear of detriment to DC wellbeing are all forms of domestic abuse.

PPs have made suggestions about what to say, how to cope, grey rocking but I think it's way past all that. He doesn't even want to be a loving DH and Dad.

I feel for you and I'm posting reflecting on my own experience. Give yourself some thinking time, try to create some emotional distance and observe him. You are doing great.

Thank you. At least if he stops paying into the bills I can use that as evidence of financial abuse or something.

I'm hoping that I'd get to stay in the house in the event of divorce, until the kids grow up at least (youngest is 7). If I went full time at work I could probably just about scrape by paying all the bills, assuming he paid half the mortgage / child maintenance.

Might have to cancel our summer holiday so I can use the savings for my legal costs 🙁

He could read all of the above and still claim that I am the abusive one, because I don't believe him and haven't made the effort to resolve things etc. He's become deluded, I've realised that now.

He is a horrible nasty little wanker - why would you want to stay married to such a revolting individual a minute longer?. I do hope you divorce sooner rather than later - you and your children deserve so much more. All the best OP.