How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

And just to add, again, meant gently despite the blunt wording, he just needs to get over himself.

He won't update linked in, he wants to be seen as someone of importance, he feels like a failure and wants to drag his family around the world so he hasn't "failed', he supports you in theory for working but you need to consider timing so he doesnt feel more useless...thats's an exhausting amount of ego to handle.

What if you just.. didn't? You were judt direct and just said something like "perhaps its not the role for you. Im happy to support you looking for something else but we arent moving to UAE, it's just off the table. I also want to get back into the workplace so let's try and see hiw these fit together."

Is he the educated sort, the kind that thinks he is an expert and very clever and quiet when actually this job is more of a sales role and needs someone with a bit more oomph and charisma? If so then it may be time to face facts that this was a learning opportunity to find out that he isn't suited to e.g. sales and should be looking more at a role that is more focused on what he did before. 8f he stays in this role, perhaps he can speak to management about moving into a different role, creating a role where he can add value or training to get better at this one for a bigger bonus.

He only fails if he doesn't learn something and make a change.

That depends on what his sector it is. My ex’s sector relies very much on experience over younger age and he’s just got a new big job offer in his sixties.

He has major immature ego problems! He needs to grow up. And I'd be looking at returning to work, OP, for no other reason than your vulnerability to him having a breakdown, a mid life tantrum or leaving you in the lurch in some way. It's risky to rely on someone so emotionally immature. Don't let your own career wither.

I broadly have sympathy for your DH as to some extent I’ve been there. But this is really childish. He needs to take this opportunity to rise above his ego and do the right thing by continuing to lean into his current job while he works on next steps. It’s an act of will . He will turn into a small and bitter person otherwise

Put your foot down and say that you will not be moving to a country where women are second class citizens.

Erm, I think it would actually be fine for my DH to tell me he wasn't prepared to move country, remain in the UK doing solo childcare most of the time or stay in the UK without his DC because I'd taken them abroad to live. However keen I was on a job.

He sounds very arrogant

My husband's company is a large UK employer and they are laying people off. More rounds to come. The economy here is contracting. While I get your desire not to move to the UAE, your husband is not wrong in saying it will make top for the losses. Plus it will be tax free, much easier to find well paid jobs. There's a level of pragmatism and realism that needs to enter the chat. Perhaps you should brush up your CV? It can't all be on his shoulders

This is what i'd do - it could be a fabulous life with long holidays in the sun!

She’s not working,not looking for a job. Permanently home. Not workplace ready
None of that suggests transient or temporary arrangement

I don't think your DH is helping himself by childishly refusing to go into the office when the expectation is to do so. Firstly that needs to be addressed by him.

It's also crazy that he's not updating Linked in.

Moving abroad for a short period may well be the answer, but on returning here he will still find that the UK does not pay the same salaries as the UAE and that there are the young thrusters coming through the system that he is competing against for jobs.

But somehow he needs to get himself in a better frame of mind to tackle all of this with whatever outside help is practical.

Nonsense. Many women take time out of the workplace when their children are small. It doesn’t make them long term SAHM however much you want it to.

You seem determined to pigeonhole women as SAHM vs career. It’s meaningless.

Really interesting thread and sympathies OP, you have described a situation which has relevance to many of us.

I feel the word ego is sometimes being used in place of “ambition” in some posts.

It is good to be ambitious. In fact many people on mumsnet who decry the state of the UK and its economy wish we could have more ambitious people! And certainly my DH and I discuss and make plans, decide on career paths, that will fulfil our ambitions together. We are both high achieving and that’s down to a team effort and team decisions over the decades. We also draw on a lot of advice from our friends, family and network - especially when at career crossroads or encountering professional development challenges. I think this is normal for any ambitious and super high achieving person unless they are single (or single minded!)

Would your DH consider taking life / career advice - counsel - from a trusted friend, as well as from you? This does mean making himself a bit vulnerable because he’ll have to be honest - but could be a decent alternative to professional counselling.

I have got family who went to the UAE and it went very well for them, and on their return, but they had a superb package. Subsidised living, an excellent private school, flights home and an excellent salary. They are back now but the years there, which they all enjoyed, really really benefitted the family finances. The flip side is that DH and I went to the US on a similar excellent package (no kids) and it didn't go well for our lifestyle at all.
Forgive me and not to minimise, but it seems to me that your problem is more emotional than financial. What comforted both of us after the US went wrong was to feel and confirm to each other that we had made a shared decision using the best information we could get and doing our due diligence and it still went wrong and sometimes that will happen. Its not personal failure, its because shit happens.

What mental health support are you thinking of?

It doesn't sound like his job, or either of your temperaments, are suitable for him to be a sole earner.

No I think he sounds wounded and defensive.

"because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance." -- this is where the career counselling could help, because being able to walk into a meeting and be treated as someone who has gravitas and importance is a skillset - partly around soft skills like communication - you can learn.

All the vibes, OP, I can hear how difficult it has been for him (and for you). The thing you all need to avoid is moving everyone to the UAE and then him finding out that he isn't any happier in the new job.

It might be less stressful for the whole household if you had a second income.

Leaving aside the location - is the JOB a good move for your DH? Is it back to what he was doing prior to the pandemic that allows him to re-enter that field and grow his career from a solid footing? Would 2/3 years back at that level facilitate a UK move into the same level of seniority or has the industry irrevocably moved on/away from UK?

Or is it a similar job to his current role with a large dependency on a bonus/equity or other financial incentive which may never land?

I'd usually be the last person to advocate a move to the Middle East but if it's the first option I'd seriously consider supporting it with two young children subject to careful validation of the costs [schooling out there is super expensive] and medical care for your daughter. Not because of his ego but I've also experienced an almost identical issue with my own husband and it is really difficult to recover from career wise. Our children were hitting secondary school age and the financial hit of me becoming a travelling spouse would be large. Thankfully because I do work full time we've been able to work through it and he has found a role he is enjoying but I recognise everything you say about the huge loss of confidence.

If it's option 2 - that's much more high risk and in a country where you'd have to relocate at very short notice if he lost his job. I would advise staying put so he has at least 2 yrs in current role while looking for something that suits his nature more [because it doesn't sound like sales is his thing]

It sounds like there’s an element of PDA/ND with him, getting hyperfixated on certain aspects and thinking that’s going to magically fix everything.

I’ve met a lot of men like this in both management consulting and engineering.

When my husband was struggling with his job, I looked at companies for him to target, read over his CV but then kept my distance. You don’t want to inadvertently become the person to blame for everything going wrong in his mind.

that sounds like a lot of uncertainty and stress and I’m sorry OP.
i work in a bonus driven comp field too and so I get it. It can be stressful but it can also be amazing if you’re in the right seat at the right time.
your husband doesn’t sound cut off for the variability in pay so maybe this company is not for him? There’s every risk next year is the same and the things he values ( status titles etc don’t sit well here) . What he’s doing right now will pretty much be damaging to his standing in his current role anyway and frankly he’s behaving a bit like a toddler. The last time I saw a colleague do this because of bonus our bosses were furious and if it had lasted more than the 2 days it did , there would have been implications longer term.

coincidentally just met someone who moved his young family ( 2 kids) to Dubai a few years back and he’s loving it. You get paid help for little and the weather is nice and it’s safe for children. It might not be as bad as you think- I wouldn’t go personally for other reasons, but maybe it’s worth an exploratory trip?

Factually,she’s not working. Factually,no identified date RTW. That’s not indicative of imminent return
Define time out? 5yr, 10?
This is very much about partnership, working to contribute, protecting herself getting her career back. Currently unwaged,she has no financial autonomy , and her lifestyle depends on choices her partner makes. That is precarious and frankly unsatisfying place to be

Yes, there are some threads where the SAHM get a job schtick is applicable, but this is clearly not what the family's issue is here. OP may or may not benefit from a return to work sooner rather than later, but DH's problems would be unaffected.

But there are other options, including her getting a job. She doesn't have to up sticks to a part of the world she has no desire to live in just because the current wage earner, whose prospects have been on a decline with redundancy and poor performance, says so! And she is a human being in her own right who has every right to refuse to go or to question his decision. Being the earner doesn't mean the fellow adult should passively obey your every whim.

And just to be clear @Zone2NorthLondon - being a SAHM while your children are pre-school - or at age stage of their lives does not automatically put you in the role of trad wife. Many SAHPs have equal rights on crucial decision making with their partner, based on mutual respect. The idea that earning money automatically confers dictator status on a spouse revolts me. How can you think that?