How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

This would scare the shit out of me, I would be very anxious being financially dependent on this individual.

It's not just the admin, they could be doing referencing on your DH and find out about his team's performance and stroppy behaviour. He's being ridiculous.

OP - I think you need to get back to work in some form and start building a professional life you could in principle rely on if necessary.

This isn't good.

He shouldn't feel as though he's failed but a bonus is exactly that and shouldn't be relied on financially. I've worked for firms where the bonus isn't on how hard you work or how good you are at your job, but how popular you are with the right people.

You both need to be on the same page about moving overseas.

This post is a salient message about modern parenting. I have worked in this kind of environment and the number of 30/40 something men that came from the 'straight As, Oxbridge, high flyer, prestigious companies' route that crumble at the first sign of adversity or something not going their way has been a constant feature. People that have been affirmed as 'special'and 'superior' all their lives just have no resilience for when things go wrong and so respond like this guy - like a child. We have to teach our kids some resilience and failure and setbacks are part of that (and builds better and more successful enployees ime).

Also, never take a job where you're relying on bonuses in lieu of salary. They are rarely as good as the recruiter promises, esp in difficult economic climates like we find ourselves in. I've seen so many famillies come unstuck by relying on bonuses that rarely materialise at the level they were hyped up to be. I only ever think of them as a, well, a bonus.

Give it a rest. This is all about you and your rigid stereoptypes.

Quite.

The thing is he isn't going to be any different overseas and you are going to have less support ....

And no guarantee of right to work either. At least now there's the option, and OP can choose to get a job as and when wished.

I'm not sure that OP going back to work is going to help lessen the burden as many posters have suggested. If her wage only covers childcare and travel then it is not going to ease the burden financially. If he is a high earners they won't get the free hours. My husbands life was made significantly harder when I returned to work. Some days he had to get to worker later so that he could drop off at 8am. Some days he had yo leave at 5pm so he could pick the children up. Some days he had to work from home with a sick toddler. Some days he would have to come home from work and tidy the house, sort out the washing and cook a meal.

I had quite a lot of sympathy for your DH until this post. He is really behaving like a sulky teenager because one thing hasn't gone brilliantly for him, after years of success and good fortune. He needs to rapidly develop a lot more resilience and maturity in order to deal with what is normal life for most people. In fact, normal life for most people consists of far worse challenges than a lower bonus, which doesn't actually affect his quality of life at all. It seems that he has never had to deal with even minor disappointments or set backs which may be a fairly common thing amongst people who have been high flyers and then entered very well paid, corporate work.

There is the additional factor that increasing lay offs are being made in some sectors and the economy is clearly in trouble. If he messes around and doesn't do his job properly, he may well lose it, especially if the company are already giving lower bonuses. You could end up with no family income because of his childish sulks.

I agree it might still be tough financially for the reasons you’ve said. I do think there’s very strong value in it though for the OP maintaining her own long term autonomy rather than being dependent on her mercurial sounding husband.

If OP wants to return to work and thinks it would be beneficial for her then absolutely she should. I just think people saying that it would ease the burden on her husband are delusional. FWIW I work three days a week.

I think you have to put the salary and whether or not you want to move for the UAE job to the side for the moment

If he wants to get back on track then he needs to look at if this UAE job has any pluses apart from the salary

Will it widen his network?

Will it get him back on track or go some way to get him back on track with regards to his career?

He can be honest in interviews that he had a blip taking his current job and it wasn’t what he expected the job to be or some other excuse

But if the UAE job is purely for cash then he is just going to make the same mistake again and one blip can be explained 2 and it is going to get harder

He needs to really think of what the benefits long term are going to be if he takes a job purely for money.

Good luck, OP!

Just wanted to mention that having two salaries is not only a way of having a higher income (for those mentioning that often all a whole salary is eaten up by childcare costs) but also a safety one if one person in the couple loses their job. Then, the unemployed parent can presumably take over the childcare and there is still
some money coming in.

Agreed - but it may give him a sense of perspective around his work life. Sometimes it's ok not to be top of the heap, it's enough just to go in and do the best job you can in the hours you have.

From OPs update on his behaviour he doesn't sound well suited to climb the corporate ladder much higher. Far better to have two working DPs to share the risk and responsibilities.

Also prioritising his career doesn't seem to have worked out well thus far. Why is he being petty about going into the office when he doesn't have nursery drop offs and pick ups to worry about.

Also, living apart for a while might not be a terrible in between, temporary solution: He gets to pursue this career opportunity, you can visit and see how you like UAE, your DC will be grow and you might feel safer living away from the hospital. In a year’s time you could be excited about moving there, or planning his move back, with considerable savings...

The idea that you don’t understand an unwaged financially dependant woman is not a trad patriarchal set up is baffling. You can waffle about unmeasurable but he’s salaried and she’s dependant on it.
What equal rights are you referring to exactly? What equality does she have?There’s a glaring power imbalance as manifested by fact he’s considering relocating three of them to UAE.
I think women choosing to give up work is precarious, risky and yes it disadvantages them. They do become financially compromised to because their partner earns, and that salary pays the food,accommodation,bills - the big stuff. Irrespective of how apparently equal rights it might all be in the relationship a woman is compromised if she’s unwaged and dependent

I think he sounds all 3. Sadly if the OP gets a FT job, I think that the H will not be able to juggle his side of childcare at all. He's got no resilience whatsoever. And is too tied up with job identity to the extent that it has become his only identity.

That's why I think you should go to UAE with a 5 yr time limit or so. And while there build up your CV in some way with plans to re-enter the workforce when you get back that you make very clear to your H.

And very much you don’t like what you’re reading?Tough
i won’t be moderating my tone, nor will I as you so eloquently put it give it a rest
the nature of threads are ability to tolerate opposing views and where that goes . Not name calling and protesting when someone has the temerity to have a pov you find unpalatable

Sad but I kind of agree about the childcare....I wouldn't rule out UAE but it will need very careful consideration and discussion.

So, don’t stay in the UK and get a job because your affluent husband won’t help you with the pick ups and drop-offs instead go to the UAE remain there on working on a spouse Visa and hope that in seven years time when you return to the UK that you can pick up your career? If you’re suggesting that he’s got unhelpful traits in the UK, he will definitely have unhelpful traits in the UAE too

They are not short of money they can easily afford to pay for pick up and drop off to facilitate hard-working full-time. She’s not dependent on him fitting his workaround pick up and drop off of a child. This is not a financially compromised household trying to figure out how to make the money stretch. Throw money at the pick up and drop off that will facilitate her to work.

And all this all her wage will be taken up by childcare,actually no he should be contributing to the childcare costs as well. It’s not a sole cost that she bears from her sole wage.

If he’s not helpful or accommodating to her career in the UK, how in any way is he gonna be more helpful or accommodating to her career when they live in the UAE and she’s a minimum of seven years out the workforce?

I think you need to reassure him that you are comfortably living on what he earns, and saving money at that which is alot more than what most can. This is with a SAHP which is great as many can be comfortable and save but only if both work full time. You have only 3 years left before little on is in school anyway. You are in a fortunate position you could then get a school hours job to bring home a little bit more money without paying childcare cost. Stop stressing about the need to be earning more and being more successful and see the other successes. Your giving your child the best you can, a comfortable lifestyle and you can plan long term for applying for new role without going to UAE and save lots later on to get the bigger house/over pay mortgage.

Some people think money is the main indicator of success but I'd say having a supportive partner, being able to be at home with a child full time is a luxury that many cannot afford to do (ps nothing wrong with childcare mine are in childcare) but many would love to be able to afford to have a sahp.

Maybe invest in some counselling for him to unpick why he can't see the success in front of him? He is earning to support is family well at the moment. Don't shoot his current job down just because the first bonus wasn't amazing. Many companies the last year haven't been able to pay their staff great bonuses. The economic climate just isn't that way at the moment in the UK.

observing on mn, that all monies eg his salary are family money considered Shared and its Non-negotiable
However, when a woman is returning to work she’s sagely warned, no! Your wages won’t cover childcare. How comes childcare costs are solely from the mum wage, and not a shared cost?
They are affluent money isn’t scarce. They can easily afford child care to facilitate return to work. This isn’t a poor household managing low incomes

That’s not the point, it’s simple arithmetic. If either of a couple gets a job and the income is cancelled out by the childcare fees there is no net financial gain.

The only reason for doing that would be a. You were desperate to maintain a foothold in a particular workplace or b. You were concerned about pension c. You weren’t keen on doing the childcare yourself.

As things stand it would be more sensible to return to work once DC is older and childcare is less.

Hi all, thank you to everyone for contributing to this, again, I've really appreciated all feedback.

• DH is a lawyer. He was a partner at a law firm, and then moved in house (abroad) as a General Counsel. I do feel he was so well suited to both of these. As some of you very astutely suggested, his current role is sales but with heavy legal input. Sales is not his forte and he has struggled with it. That said, his managers are very very happy with him because they like how he works.

• The UAE role would put him back on track as a GC. This role is the type to value experience but the current role just needs sales hungry type personalities.

• I will not pretend to understand DH's working style/attitude. It works for him, but I wince sometimes when I've heard him speak in meetings during disagreements. He is incredibly hardworking and he makes what you could call an old fashioned boss. In contrast, he is a very caring and mild mannered husband at home and will do his utmost to make sure DD and I are cared for.

• That said, parenting does not come so naturally to him. He is certainly a super fun dad but he doesn't understand a bunch developmental stage appropriate behaviours - mostly because he hasn't had the time to read up on this stuff unlike me. He will sometimes tell off DD or call her naughty or want her to do something she is not yet developmentally ready for. I prefer being the SAHP from this perspective and whether it is right or wrong, it gives me a sense of peace that DD is getting the very best of both our strengths.

• It would make no sense for DH to be the SAHP. My salary would cover mortgage payments but definitely not all bills. We reconciled that it makes sense for DH to have the demanding job and I take on something more flexible if I want to go back to work. Neither of us like the idea of DD being in childcare for 10hrs a day and we feel like we didn't have a child just to not see her for most of the week. I feel extremely privileged to be able to be with her. Ultimately we want a family and I will have to accept there are things we need to sacrifice.

• DH's salary comes into the joint account which is something I keep an eye on more closely than DH. There is no power problems with who earns and who doesn't and DH relies on me to manage finances in general.