How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

Very astute post and I felt the same. I couldn’t identify with op’s situation at all now I’ve got DCs. Before maybe. Everything for us centres on having enough to give them a good life but having time to spend with them to enjoy every bit of their childhood.

What bollocks. The OP clearly managed the shift out of the workplace, and got on with things. She was who she was at work for 40 hours a week too. She was an economic provider, currently she isn’t. He can perfectly well shift to being a SAHP for a bit while the OP gets back into work mode.

UAE is very expensive to bring up a family. I had my accommodation covered by my company and it was still expensive for XH and I before ds came along.

Your husband can also travel ban your children if a separation ever occurred. My friend is currently stuck there until her dc turn 18 as husband has travel banned them.

So even without the big bonus, your DH earns over 100k and you have no money worries day to day? So many people would kill to be in that situation! It's honestly not a disaster at all. My DH and I earn less than half that each, with expensive nursery fees and a big mortgage in the SE, and neither of us feel miserable or like failures.

You could have answered all those questions for yourself by just reading op's previous posts.

I was going to say very similar to this.

OP being a SAHM is a red herring because the pressure her husband feels (and the risk of impending meltdown) is internal. She could match her old salary right now and they'd still have the same problem which is that he feels like a failure. And they are actually fine financially! This is not a case of being unable to pay the bills - this is entirely about what happens when a high-achiever crashes for the first time.

I get it (also straight As, also Oxbridge, also never failed until I did and it was ugly). But - I'm going to be blunt here because it's early in the morning - he needs to get over the status-obsessed, measuring yourself against your peers (and those younger than you), attitude. Failure is actually really valuable in this regard. It reduces you to the core of yourself and it forces you to work your way back on your terms, to the things you really find important.

Jockeying for prestigious job titles and getting green-eyed over ambitious, talented young people who might be better than you... well it's common and it's understandable but it's also, when you take a step back, really fucking childish and pathetic. It's entirely borne out of insecurity and it's not what matters. I say this having been there and felt those things.

Neoliberal capitalism drums it into our heads - especially men's heads - that linear career progress is the be all and end all, but I'd say it's vital to unlearn that and find healthier ways to validate ourselves. Men tying their self-worth to something as precarious as their job is similar to women tying it to something as transient as their looks - we're bombarded with social messaging telling us this is what matters and we owe it to ourselves to say, to ourselves, no it fucking doesn't.

PP have suggested therapy and you've said he thinks it's fluff. Sadly I get where he's coming from, I am an advocate for therapy now but there was certainly a time in my life when I thought it was an admission of weakness. The good news is that the mindset shift I've talked about doesn't necessarily need a therapist. He's a smart man. He can join the dots and work it out. He needs to get out of his own head and do that.

I think perhaps talking to a good professional career coach could help him shape his thoughts. Would he consider that? When you’re in a role you hate and don’t feel rewarded for it’s very frustrating and sounds like he needs some independent thoughts and guidance.

He has not destroyed his career that is catastrophising. At the same time I think I would be more supportive about UAE if that’s the direction he wants to go. Your being a SAHM would limit the impact on DC.

I don’t think you can have it all your own way though - SAHM + stay in the U.K.
Where I disagree with others is that, unless you are likely to earn markedly more than you’re paying out in childcare, getting a job won’t make much impact other than making life more stressful.

Can he complain about the bonus? He has another job offer so I would be tempted to tell his current employer the level of bonus isn't acceptable and not at the level he was told when he took the job. If they wont budge UAE here we come, it would be an adventure and you don't have a job to give up.

I would be prepared that if you move to UAE as a SAHM that you will be looking after your kid all the time. People are expected to work much longer hours and essentially you only see your DH on a Fri and Sat, the rest of your time is on your own. There are a lot of expats so you will make friends but it's not the same as having family near. If you are less into the lifestyle AD is nicer to live in than Dubai. The hospitals are pretty decent though your DH would need to make sure a really good health insurance is included for the whole family on his job offer which covers the better hospitals.

I would also tread exceptionally carefully with his mental health. My DH never had any trouble with his mental health until he was made redundant (whilst working in UAE tbh).He coped so well at the time being a SAHD until he got another role and then a year later out of the blue started having panic attacks until he was barely able to function. We are a few years on and he is doing so much better but is on an antidepressant and certainly not back to how he was before.

If you’re a SAHM why not consider all going to the UAE for a few years?

You need to work FT, not part time, and you step up. Your both smart capable people who need to initiate some changes.
i appreciate you had a scary time healthwise with your child,that was years ago and now you need to return to work FT. Stop making excuses , get a FT job. Yes childcare is expensive but once you are experienced your wages may potentially rise too. Give yourself a pep talk too (not just him) and step up and get back to work Ft. If you want those nice things you have to contribute too
It’s disappointing that his new role isn’t as expected and understandably that’s got an ouch factor, however it’s fixable and a bit of job application therapy can feel quite empowering
Can he work as a locum or interim to get feel for a new role new company? With a recruitment agent Are there short term or agency roles he can do?

He’s got to get past this - envy can be very damaging. My DH got no bonus this year - no one did. Management set the target unrealistically high based on repeating results from the previous year which were high for a specific, not repeated reason. It’s annoying, but not a huge issue if you don’t depend on it. He looks on the bright side - got a top level performance review this year which is great. Can your DH focus on what he is achieving in the role rather than salary levels?

Men being career focussed and driven by status is what you get when society still places the expectation on men to be a provider. That’s where the pressure comes from so it’s not surprising that for a lot of men their self worth is tied up in their success.

you see it on here too, that people only want successful men. That any less isn’t desirable or is a failure.

I agree. Time for you to step up I think.

I've read your posts, not the responses, so perhaps repeating what has already been said:

• don't neglect your own career/working life. Once children go to school it can be deadly dull & lonely not to have another purpose in your life.

• career & life mentoring for your DH. If you are comfortable financially he may benefit from a different perspective. His perception is from a hot house.

• Working abroad, even the UAE, for a few years might be an adventure with the right mindset. Really consider what it gives him confidence or CV-wise, how long it might be for, how he would return to working in the UK if that's what you want. If you aren't working and your child not in school yet, you are there to look after your child wherever you are, so maybe as a family you are right to take advantage of that... But if you know not forever, then you need to think about how you would return to life after a few years and really plan it and be certain that he means it.

• private school is a nonsense for bright kids, especially with involved parents, even more especially if it is stretch financially.

He’s comparing himself to the 0.5% of the population who went to Oxbridge rather than than everyone else. Exams will only get you so far without grit and resilience, and he’s now so paralysed by perfectionism that he won’t even update his LinkedIn.

I think a coach or therapy to make peace with this is the answer. I’m not sure you can do anything as a backseat driver apart from suggest these. I’m not sure if UEA will solve things as he might just have the same issues of pay drop/status drop when he returns.

The job market isn’t great here OP, so to find a job, whether part or full-time, earning more than you did previously, might be difficult to achieve both in the current climate and with your anxiety, and could put further strain on finances.

Your DC is not two years old yet, so relocating for 2-3 years, while reluctantly, wouldn’t harm them (realistically wouldn’t harm them until they are around Y2 UK school age), you would get to stay at home, and potentially have the opportunity to access training courses for further qualifications so that when you return to the UK, you’re in a better position to return to work.

In the meanwhile, your DH could re-establish himself in his field, you could build up savings and plan to return in, say, no more than 5 years.

It’s a leap of faith, but that is what I would do in your position - but having that plan is crucial, and your DH must agree to relocate back in an agreed time-frame.

He could take aue job and you live here for a bit and travel iver to see if you like it. Offering a differing perspective as I spent time in the middle east working and it is a much more family friendly culture and I really enjoyed it. Childcare is cheap, an live in nanny housekeeper for example would help massively. The time inspent there due to low taxes was a massive bonus to our finances. If i got anither offer there I would jump at it tbh.

Great post. I agree with all of this.

"OP being a SAHM is a red herring because the pressure her husband feels (and the risk of impending meltdown) is internal. She could match her old salary right now and they'd still have the same problem which is that he feels like a failure."

Agree with this - and the rest of @gannett's post.

This problem isn't connected to Op at all - it's purely about her husband's Masters of the Universe mindset. It seems like the first career bump in the road he has encountered and instead of keeping it in proportion, he's turned against himself.

Obviously he'd benefit from a bit of career coaching.

This really isn't the disaster he thinks it is.

I agree. No wonder he is stressed with the financial burden falling totally on his shoulders. He has only been in the job a year. If he doesn't like the job then by all means look for another one. But if it's just a question of money then you need to start contributing rather than handwringing.

I think you need to avoid taking on DH’s stress - of course you want to be supportive but you don’t need to join him in the mindset that something terrible has happened. He’s had a few dodgy career years while you’ve been dealing with a sick baby - it’s shit, like everything it passes.

I’d agree with PP that you just have to say that UEA isn’t an option. Then I would suggest he sees a career coach to get practical non-emotional support so you aren’t taking on that role, which I don’t think you can. if I were him I’d get a contacting role so he can leave the current gig, to give him time to find a good next role which will take time.

You do sound very very anxious and a bit lost OP - it’s good you are seeing someone for this, but honestly I think going back to work PT would suit you (and the baby and your husband) better. Being at home FT isn’t for everyone and I think the isolation is doing you no good. Generalized chronic anxiety does tend to get worse so I’d act now. It also means you have some earning power and aren’t letting your career go fallow so long it dies - which, while you may earn way less than DH, will probably help his anxiety too.

DH may also need to see someone as it sounds he’s either depressed or anxious himself - but in the first instance I’d focus on finding a good career coach, as just feeling on top of his game and that his career is moving may sort him out.

You need to tell him that you will not move to UAE under any circumstances, and that you need him here in the UK to support you and DC, to be a husband and father. That is more important than money. Then you need to both look carefully at finances and work out how to manage, cutting costs where possible. You also need to seriously consider whatever free childcare you are entitled to if any, and look at jobs for yourself, maybe part time to begin with. DH was obviously proud of being a high earner, part of his self-belief, but he isn't any more, it is devastating to his self-esteem, as you understand. You need to be very clear you value him as a person, as your DC's father, and his presence here in UK, more than money. No easy solution, but when he has had time to think more, he might be able to get past the idea of making up money shortfall by going to UAE. Would he consider consulting again while he looks for another permanent role? It might be a difficult few weeks but I wish you luck in finding a solution that works (which will likely mean managing on a lower income). Sadly you have both been living on hope (of the bonus) not reality.