How to navigate bad bonus with DH

[gollyimholly]

Sorry for such a long post, but I am hoping it is relevant context. Also sorry if this is more relevant in the money section but my question really is on how to navigate emotions more than anything.

I am a SAHM (our only DC is nearly 2 years old). Before DC was born, I was not planning on being a SAHM but maternity leave was stressful due to DC being in a hospital (with a particular illness she has but is generally ok now thankfully ie. she does not need any special support or care) and I am a far more anxious person than I realised. Neither DH nor I felt happy about daycare and I realised even after finding the perfect nanny, I just couldn't bring myself to leave DC. DH was very supportive of whichever I chose in terms of returning to work or staying with DC. I was very grateful to be able to stay home with DC and still am. Since being married (5 years this year), DH and I have shared finances completely and so it didn't feel like that much was going to be different for me.

However, whilst I was pregnant, DH had two job offers. We both jointly chose the job he went with but ultimately it was the wrong decision. It was the wrong decision for two reasons:

• it isn't the job DH has always worked in but a role that uses his skills instead (eg. surgeon moves into a company to advise on medical decisions) and so because it was so different to what his usual day at the office was he struggled to feel useful or someone that had any gravitas or importance.
• its earning potential is based on bonuses more than anything (it isn't anything dodgy and the company is a household name internationally). The base is half what he usually would be on and from a pure numbers perspective he felt he had failed completely.

Before he received the offers, DH was redundant for about a year. He worked abroad before the pandemic and after the pandemic the company was taken over by another company and brought in all their own people at C-level and so DH couldn't stay. During his year of redundancy he worked in a contracting role (less well paid than both job offers) whilst looking for his appropriate position. It is not easy to find DH's role in the UK at the salary he was being paid abroad.

Given the redundancy, the contracting role and then choosing the wrong job, DH has been feeling really awful about himself and that he's not doing well career-wise.

Yesterday, he received information on what his bonus is for this year (it is the first full year he has worked in this role) and so the first real picture of the bonus. We've both realised how tricky it is to plan life around an unknown bonus and have been waiting for clarity with this year's bonus. And it is shockingly low. DH feels awful. I don't want to say anything negative to him at all and add to how he is feeling. Previous to today we really would be very joint in all conversations including his work and he would consider my opinions equally. Also previously to today, we have been weighing up another job offer but even though it's well paid, it's abroad (UAE) and we aren't feeling very keen about uprooting our young and growing family away from our "village" so far away. My immediate feelings to the bonus are quite crestfallen and also nervous re.finances and would like for DH to job hunt and find something more in line with what he was used to before the redundancy. But it will take A LOT of effort and being on the ball. DH's reaction is to double down on the UAE job offer as he thinks it's now the only way he can recoup all the losses of the past few years.

I want to tell him that he needs to start looking, and looking really seriously, for a UK based role. Neither of us really want to move abroad. If that was me, and it was my job, that's what I would do. But DH feels like he isn't going to get better than the UAE role. The problem here is that, it isn't me looking for a job for myself. I need to be the emotional support whilst he is feeling rubbish and nervous, but I also feel the same. But I don't feel like I can really express that because I think it would just make DH feel even worse about himself. And yes, I can of course go back to work myself (and I don't plan on being a SAHM always) but we are both very happy with me looking after DC for now.

I suppose my question is, how do I be supportive and encourage DH that we need to look harder in the UK, express that we can't live in limbo like we have been because we're pinning too much on an unknown without making him feel even worse.

Sorry this is so unbelievably long. I think I'm part using MN to express my own anxiety but hoping for any advice to how to be more supportive. I feel like we've both messed up and DH's once sparkling career has been really destroyed by a bunch of bad decisions over the last few years. This is something he himself feels but I try not to say I agree because he feels so terrible about how far down a snake he's fallen.

Your entire career seems to be as a sideline commentator about his career or lack of.

If the roles were reversed, you’d be a cocklodger and sentiment would be LTB.

Absolutely. The point of coaching is that your husband does know exactly what he needs but would benefit from a structured conversation to define this and make an achievable plan!

OP - I think you need to accept that your DH is unlikely to earn as much as he did in his previous pre Covid job abroad, or in the UAE, whilst he’s working in the UK. Companies in the UAE offer higher salaries to attract talent - mostly people don’t leave their safe homes unless it’s worth it financially. So the decision is, does want to earn more and work abroad, or earn less and have your families and “villages”around. That’s the decision you need to make as a family.

That's somewhat unfair as it was a joint decision for OP to be SAHM. Her DH seems to have put her in the position of careers adviser and it doesn't seem like the best fit rather than trusting his own instincts. Unless OP is in the same market she is unlikely to be able to offer much help on his CV, and I have to say taking a lower paid job on the promise of a large bonus seems a bit naive unless you're in sales.

I work in a profession where UAE jobs are offering amazing money, free health care, free child care, you can visit parts of the world you never thought about visiting. All have come back and brought a property for cash.

This has eased the need to be high earners as you feel riches by not having a mortgage.

Some have retired early or gone part time.

With your DC being young, I don’t see a downside. He gets to scratch that itch!

I moved with DH to a different country, the schooling is better here, 2/3 so far are at decent universities and it’s paid for, so one less expence.

Dont write it off - it will look good on his CV and he will feel that’s where the money is - even a year might help.

Most jobs which have bonuses as part of the comp have a clear structure for what you have to do to get that bonus. Eg if you're a lawyer your bonus might be a percentage of your base salary, tied to hitting your chargeable hours target, and then increase in stages depending on how much above target you achieved. If you're a trader it might be that you get X% of the profits on your trades.

He should therefore be able to see what the reason for his bonus being low is. If he hasn't performed to the level required for a better bonus, can he improve next year or get support to improve? Rather than go through the upheaval of changing jobs - and possibly countries - again.

"Darling, I sense you're disappointed with your bonus. It's shit, I agree. But don't forget that we're financially comfortable and have been able to afford the luxury of me being at home with DD. I'm happy with our life. I feel secure and don't worry about money. Having said that, I'm happy to return to the workplace if it will ease the pressure.

I really don't think the UAE is the best decision for our family.

But I'm worried about you. I'm worried that you're carrying the financial burden and have been disappointed that your career hasn't gone on the path you want it to. Why don't you look into some career coaching to help with planning the next stage? It'd be a good investment for us.

Or go for a pint with dad/brother/best mate and ask for their opinion while you're at this crossroads. Perhaps I'm too close to the situation so another perspective will add value"

Not true at all. I am normally first to say “get a job” to op but this isn’t like that. Op still has a very young dc and sounds like they’ve been jointly making decisions. I don’t read op’s post like she’s trying to avoid work.

your husband seems to be in a vocation that is generally well paying so as a couple you can afford for him to make the choice not entirely based on money. I would encourage him to find a job he will be able to enjoy and excel in, often the money then follows. Making a job choice purely based on the salary is probably going to end up with him being more miserable.

I went through similar with my DH. He had to leave a career where he had a lot of status, quite publicly, and he couldn’t cope with the loss of status. He then had a nervous breakdown where he was applying for all sorts of jobs all over the place and world, but as I knew we weren’t moving it was all very stressful.

he took a year to realise that staying close to family and friends was better for the stage where we are at. And that working in a different industry with a lower status job was ok. He’s now doing well, but even 7 years on there’s still the odd look back at his old life.

and the thing I found hardest was it was all ego driven not finances as we were fine financially. I also worked which helped me keep grounded through it all.

He has experienced disappointment. It’s not catastrophic and he should be able to manage that feeling. You just need to be able to support him in that. Start by recognising that no one is stellar. Everyone, even geniuses, experience failure and setbacks. That’s what makes us grow and it is his our ability to try that allows us to do that. He has leant something about his capabilities and he just needs to reassess his career development. He should learn to manage his own expectations of himself and what he can do.

As others have pointed out you should take a step back from your role in driving him on. Practically speaking you can do this by reducing pressure on him to succeed financially. In your post you claim to be anxious. What does this mean? We all experience anxiety and for the most part we manage it. You can’t use it as a reason not to work. It is naive to assume this is not a factor in your decisions as a couple.

There are plenty of ways to manage disappointment and anxiety in life. Maybe set your measures of success to a different level and learn to be happy with good enough.

IMO
The stars you are reaching for seem to be out of your joint reach. Probably because your decision to be SAHP is anchoring him down and forcing him into high paying roles he isn’t suited for. Setting him up for disappointment and you up to be anxious.

The set up of two working parents, even paying for childcare, creates more financial resilience. Which is why most people choose it.

There's a lot to unpack beyond the bonus (which is a bit of a red herring)

You have a family living on one salary comfortably (increasingly unusual in the uk) this is not the disaster he and you are painting it as.

You go on to say
DH does live, breathe, eat his career.

Post having children I find this attitude quite concerning tbh. But it might be because he is the solo breadwinner and feeling the heat....
We were veryyy ambitious (A grades, oxbridge, 6 figure jobs, fast track etc) but post-children we both centre all our career decisions on the family

- He needs to rethink carefully what "success" looks like is it making 150k and getting home for bathtime amd stories 3 nights a week or 180k, a corner office and seeing his children on Saturday and sunday?

• he'd benefit from career coaching / therapy as PP said

- You also sounds as though you need some therapy to deal with your anxiety.

In your situation if he really truly feels UAE will unfunk his career and will enable him to get "the job" the uk I'd suck it up and agree to go until primary school application (thats 18m - 2yrs) and then I'd come back.
If its just geographic fallacy and he thinks UAE will fix all that ails him, I'd tell him to go fish and keep looking

His career seems to have been internationally based pre-Covid and it sounds like his particular field has a more international market as opposed to a UK based industry. Given that, you must have known he’d need to look for ex-pat roles to progress his career.

The goalposts have changed because what you want has changed, but he still needs career opportunities to keep the family in the lifestyle they’re accustomed to and for his career progression and job satisfaction.

You may be fine with how things are now, but he’s clearly unhappy and unfulfilled. We all have different motivators in working life, and career progression, feeling successful and prestige are part of his. There’s nothing wrong with that, and you knew it was part of his make up when you had DC.

How do you think he can fulfil those parts of himself, in an industry that isn’t UK focussed, if he can’t travel to where the work is. He had two, lesser, job offers here in a year, which suggests the job roles just don’t exist in the UK so how can he progress his career in the way he wants to?

At the moment you seem very focussed on what you need and want. He supports the part of you that wants to be home with your child but you seem quite disregarding of his need to feel successful and respected in his career.

Sorry OP, this sounds really stressful for both of you. Financial stresses and instability hit different when they are children in the mix (I am an extremely anxious person, have GAD, and these things get me spiralling down sometimes, I get it.)
I remember watching/reading Martin Lewis on good/bad financial decisions and basically what he was saying is often, we mistaken "bad" outcomes as bad decisions, but it isn't the case. You and your husband at the point of choosing the job from the 2 offers weighed the pros and cons and made the best decision according to what you knew then. The outcome now don't fit you and your family, and that's unfortunate, but it isn't your or your DR'S fault. There is no shame to have.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/11032059/Martin-Lewis-Dont-confuse-a-bad-outcome-with-a-bad-decision.html

Completely agree with the career coaching - most corporates I’ve worked with (and some successful start-ups) invest in career coaching for their exec team to help with development. Could you frame it as something you don’t want him to miss out on during the brief time he’s working below his real level?

I realise that it’s not really tackling the issue head on and feels a bit like “appeasement” but I do feel rather like a lot of problems with a psychological cause, he’s not going to be willing to change until he’s ready. So the best thing you can do as an already hugely supportive partner (and I mean that sincerely - I wish you were mine!) is to try and make sure he has the tools at hand for when he is.

If you know you don't want to live in the UAE, don't go there "just for two years". It will not be trivial to come back and get re-established here. You'd have all the same problems you have now, and a few more. It could be the breaking-up of your marriage if he wants to stay there. Just a terrible idea imo.

I went self employed and part time. Paying for childcare is not just about money in money out, nursery is beneficial in developing young children.

I would not move to the UAE to keep up with the Jones’s.

It is. The attachment to the money seems to be more about what it represents.

OP could get a job, absolutely. She'd bring in a bit extra on top of the childcare costs. That would still leave the main problems here unchanged.

Honestly this is a “both of us against the problem”. I just not clear on what the actual problem is.

Is it that he is struggling in his job and that’s why the bonus was low, or that he does t like this type of role and the UAE is the only current option, or you don’t have enough coming in to cover the bills?

If possible I would address your anxiety around your child. It’s a tough situation when they are sick, but now she is better it will be good for her to start being socialised.

I think you are both being naive in thinking that he would be able to earn as much in the UK as he did abroad. I think it is very unlikely he will find a job in the UK with the same pay as the job in the UAE. So it might be a choice between high wage and living abroad or lower wage and having your village.

OP has said the money side is fine. DH is being offered roles that pay the bills well enough, but he feels he needs to achieve more in his career for his self worth.

I'm guessing your husband gets paid a shitload and it's his ego getting bruised x

Low bonus = low performance?

Why is his bonus amount such a surprise?

Did he not understand What he needed to achieve to get the level of bonus he wanted?

Or did he understand, but failed to deliver?

It's important to understand why, as from your post, it's the amount he got that has caused all the angst.

If he is underperforming, is he able to change. If not a new role is needed as via a specialist recruitment agency as they do most of the leg work.

I'd unpack the reason for the low bonus first.

Hi, this resonated with me as I’ve seen men in similar holes many times before. I have held quite a few senior roles and over time have probably managed 5 digit people so hope I might add some context.

It happens often with men in particular mid career. They may have burned brightly and quickly, and usually bought in on the success vision in a way women don’t. Then something happens - a redundancy, a terrible boss they need to escape, a misstep and they struggle with the adversity and embarrassment. It’s like their resiliency tanks aren’t high enough.

It also won’t have helped that recruiting in 2021 and 2022 was off the scale and people were promising all sorts to make the hire. Now in a employers market, wages are down.

Of this population, men tend to

• Get perspective, reset ambitions and come to terms with their new trajectory
• Get networking fast, get into LinkedIn, reach out to old colleagues. I get lots of these and just see it as staying in touch not begging for a job
• Go to the Middle East and do jobs that they wouldn’t do in the UK because it’s well paid and they see it as less demeaning than doing the same in the UK.

There is nothing wrong with any option and I have total respect for men who take any of these routes. None is easy.

(Women are a whole different type of career slump but apologies for use of male examples).

No one is going to earn the same in the UK as the UAE, partly due to tax but also because these jobs pay very well to make people move.

Realistically he's going to earn half what he would in UAE in the UK. Therefore both of you need to understand that and not compare.

You therefore have a choice as a family.

To maximise his earnings move to UAE.

Or stay in UK and get him a job he's happy with, irrespective of the earnings.

Clearly he believes that his value is based on his paycheck which is not the truth.

You need to support him by making him understand that you love and support him for who he is, not his paycheck.